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Ran

[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Asha - Spoilers for ADwD

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Interesting summary indeed. It will neat to see what comes of Asha/Stannis and whether or not any alliance is formed. One possible outcome I see is Stannis/Asha attacking the Dreadfort to free Theon and being successful, yet suffering enormous losses. They will then go back to Castle Black to plan their next moves and Jon will confront Stannis about keeping Theon alive and the backing of Theon's claim to the Iron Islands. This will most likely occur near the last half of the book so the Melisandre (and consequently all the men who were left behind by Stannis) shifting her (their) allegiance to Jon will surely have taken full effect. Jon will kill Stannis and Jon's final chapter will end with him reflecting on Theon kicking the deserter's head at the beginning of AGOT, just after he decaptitates Theon. Jon's always disliked Theon and I really feel that this is the best possible way to put an end to Theon's POV. :D

I have a feeling that ADWD will really get the gears of this story moving much faster and I foresee 1, maybe even 2 POV deaths in this novel. Theon dying in this novel is pretty much 100% from where I'm standing. Jon killing Stannis will remove a player from the Game of Thrones, and potentially add another in himself. Jon is too honour bound to begin a claim for any throne, let alone Lordship, but with the current state of affairs in Westeros and Chaos that is engulfing the realm over this silly war Jon killing Stannis would (will) add so much more complexity to not only Jon's character, but to the story as a whole.

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Does Stannis have any legal right to the Seastone Chair. Robert was King of The Seven Kingdoms including the Iron Islands. His legal Heir is Stannis. Therefore Stannis is the legal ruler of the Iron Islands and can reclaim them by force because he wasn't told about the Kingmoot. Asha dosen't need Theon then.

Did the Greyjoy house win the throne orginaly through war?

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Stannis isn't ironborn. I suspect that one has to be an ironman to be able to stand in a kingsmoot.

Now, of course, Stannis can't support the notion of the ironborn electing a king. But ... electing a king who immediately abdicates the throne and swears fealty to Stannis, restoring the Iron Islands to the rule of the Iron Throne legitimately? That works.

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Great spoiler chapter. Thanks to all who reported it and the many great posts. And I promised myself I wouldn't read spoiler chapters anymore.

On speculating on Stannis and Theon hooking up:

I noticed the Dreadfort to be on a river. I was thinking when Davos sailed south maybe he brought Mel along and he got her in position to deliver a swadow baby to free Theon. But on reflection I don't think Davos would participant in that kind of thing anymore. So without a POV to witness it, it wouldn't happen. But then it hit me, that would be great re-appearance POV for Theon, his rescue by a shadow baby.

On speculating on Roose Bolten's return North:

I just couldn't see how he was going to get back north without his force being destroyed. Euron solved that problem for him. I hope after being in the field so long he will split with a small force to take him back to the Dreadfort and let Ramsey attack Torrhens Square. I also hope there are still enough Ironborn at Moat Cailin to put a dent in Roose's numbers.

On speculating on Torrhens Square:

Maybe Cleftjaw will marry Eddara and have aspirations of being a northern Lord. HaHa. Torrhens Square could be where the defining battle for Stannis and Bolten takes place. Cleftjaw would not need a large foce to force the Bolten force to start a siege on it. If they are tied up there for months it could give Stannis the time he needs to attack thier siege camp. Asha could prove useful in this kind of scenerio if Stannis can get her there before the Boltens.

On speculating on White Harbor/Manderlys:

I like your thinking on this Cybroleach. I'm not a fan on Osha and Rickon going to Graywater Watch. In fact my initial impression was they would go north. Manderly's up to something and my first gut reaction is he wants power for himself too. Everybody else is doing it. It would be nice to hear Lord Manderly tell Davos that he has the young Lord Stark and he wants to do right by the Starks because the Starks give his family a chance when they were kicked out of the Reach. Wishful thinking I know but the only people left in the north that has any good feelings towards Roose and Ramsey has to be thier mothers.

Other thoughts:

I don't have a clue why Mel would free Theon, the thought came to my head and could be an awesome POV chapter.

The north is definitely politically fluent. Bolten rules by force. If things go the right way for Stannis he may have Bolten bending his knee to him. How would that play out?

Nice blurb on the longships Ran. I guess a hybrid would have a deck over the oar/rowing spaces and more than one mast. Thats the kind I want. :pirate:

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Actually, Silence is said to have just the one mast. But it must be more along the lines of a small war galley. I'd guess Iron Victory and Great Kraken are bigger.

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Stannis isn't ironborn. I suspect that one has to be an ironman to be able to stand in a kingsmoot.

Now, of course, Stannis can't support the notion of the ironborn electing a king. But ... electing a king who immediately abdicates the throne and swears fealty to Stannis, restoring the Iron Islands to the rule of the Iron Throne legitimately? That works.

Stannis would never support a king but he could not deny to ironborn right to elect their leader and besides by the common law Teon in the rightful heir. Stannis stated once that Robb was rightful lord of the North even while he was traitor by calling himself a king. Teon never called himself a king so Stannis could support his claim for Iron Isles.

The only problem is that he is selfproclaimed child killer…

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Just a question I think I might be missing something. Does it state in this spoiler chapter Dagmer holds Torrhens square?

I cant remember in the books I thought he was alive and abroad somewhere after Rodrik Cassell smashed his forces besieging Torrhens square.

I believe the castellan of Torrhens somebody tallhart was killed along with Rodrik after the battle at winterfell when Ramsay betrayed the other northmen. Did Dagmer take the Square after this? I cant remember.

In the notes from the reading its stated Moat cailin? has fallen we know the Ironmen held this. I just cant remember where it was said they hold torrhens square unless it was stated in this chapter reading.

If the moat has fallen Stannis had better move fast cos Bolton will be coming back north and holds a substantial advantage in numbers at the moment and with the way across the neck clear Lannister/Tyrell reinforcements will be much easier to get to the north.

We know Rickon didnt go north cos Luwin advised Osha the boys must not journey together and in different directions. He also stated the directions and whereabouts of potential enemies which greatly narrows the scope of who to and where Rickon went.

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Just a question I think I might be missing something. Does it state in this spoiler chapter Dagmer holds Torrhens square?

Yes. And that the Boltons have taken Moat Cailin.

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I don't have a clue why Mel would free Theon

So that she can burn him and wake her dragon (and woe to those on the Wall when she does). And I think we have to consider how Jon may react if he learns that "Arya" has been taken to the Dreadfort to marry Ramsay Bolton. Not too well I think...

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And I think we have to consider how Jon may react if he learns that "Arya" has been taken to the Dreadfort to marry Ramsay Bolton.

That will be fun. :P But he doesn't have a lot of options.

I can't imagine even Mel will think that Theon has "kingsblood".

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I can't imagine even Mel will think that Theon has "kingsblood".

I'm not so sure about that. I think Mel would consider it worth a try to burn almost anyone even remotely royal. If it works, all her plots fall into place (so she thinks). And if it doesn't...oh well, one less Iron Born/Wildling/King in the North, etc.

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You know, if Felyse was out of the picture, Asha would make interesting marriage material for King Stannis... :devil: Just a thought.

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You know, if Felyse was out of the picture, Asha would make interesting marriage material for King Stannis... :devil: Just a thought.

ITYM Selyse, but ya, that's a great thought!

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Does it matter that Theon's a childkiller, if the children he killed weren't Starks?

Theon has one definite piece of useful info, namely that Bran and Rickon are still alive. He may have a second piece, which is that Roose Bolton played a central role in the Red Wedding. He's also the only remaining person who can challenge Euron for the Iron Islands, so he needs to stay alive long enough to do so (for storyline purposes; then he can die and Asha can inherit). If he escapes and reaches Stannis, between his news and Asha's tales of dragons, I see great plot potential. :)

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Re: the mysterious list of Bolton supporters, I think I have a decent idea of their identity.

- Umber (obviously- this is confirmed)

- Ryswell

- Dustin (Lady Dustin is Lord Ryswell's daughter)

- Stout (Dustin bannerman)

There should be two others, but who? Manderly is professing loyalty, so I would assume him; but I'd think such a well-known House would be remembered by those who attended the reading, so he's out. I'll guess Locke and the Flints of Widow's Watch to round out the list.

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hmm...aside from the Umber's and maybe Flint's are any of those houses strong at all? And I'd bet that if the Blackfish somehow breaks the Greatjon free the Umbers aren't gonna with with the Boltons for long.

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And I'd bet that if the Blackfish somehow breaks the Greatjon free the Umbers aren't gonna with with the Boltons for long.

Yup. And if the Blackfish somehow wakes a number of powerful dragons from the sea using previously unknown dragon-waking powers, he can crown himself King of the Riverlands and rule with an iron fist.

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Yup. And if the Blackfish somehow wakes a number of powerful dragons from the sea using previously unknown dragon-waking powers, he can crown himself King of the Riverlands and rule with an iron fist.

:agree:

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Does it matter that Theon's a childkiller, if the children he killed weren't Starks?

Theon has one definite piece of useful info, namely that Bran and Rickon are still alive. He may have a second piece, which is that Roose Bolton played a central role in the Red Wedding. He's also the only remaining person who can challenge Euron for the Iron Islands, so he needs to stay alive long enough to do so (for storyline purposes; then he can die and Asha can inherit). If he escapes and reaches Stannis, between his news and Asha's tales of dragons, I see great plot potential. :)

He can also confirm that Winterfell was sacked by Ramsey. Right now most of the North believes it was the Ironborn that sacked Winterfell and Ramsey rescued the prisoners and took them to the Dreadfort.

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He can also confirm that Winterfell was sacked by Ramsey. Right now most of the North believes it was the Ironborn that sacked Winterfell and Ramsey rescued the prisoners and took them to the Dreadfort.

...but out of Theon's mouth, that would sound like a self-serving (and transparent) lie. Ramsay could just respond, of _course_ Theon would say that, he wants to minimize his own infamy.

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