Denver 2008

[Watcher]

I should be able to make it.

[Lyanna Stark]

I really really really wanna make it to this one. Am trying to talk Captain Picard into coming with me too.

[zakalwe7]

Fuck yeah!!!!

You gotta!

But you also have to come up and visit us here SOON!!!!!

[Lyanna Stark]

If I was a rich woman and could afford the travel there would be no end of how much I'd bother you with my prec

sence.

[Stego]

Oh.

The wife and I are definite.

[zollo]

Crap, so this is where the Denver thread went. Well I am obviously still going but that means I accidentally signed up for Saratoga Woops.

[Padraig]

Crap, so this is where the Denver thread went. Well I am obviously still going but that means I accidentally signed up for Saratoga Woops.

Did you notice me mentioning that I thought you were going to Saratoga in chat a couple of days ago? You are free to mock me about going to every con in existence again now of course...

And yes, would be great for you to come Cerys! Its been years and years since we met! We Euros will outnumber the North Americans yet.

[Xray the Enforcer]

CERYS -- you and Picard must join. Seriously.

[needle]

Crap, so this is where the Denver thread went. Well I am obviously still going but that means I accidentally signed up for Saratoga biggrin.gif Woops.

heh, not to mention hassling us as to why we WEREN'T going to Denver for absolutely no reason

[tenalpia]

heh, not to mention hassling us as to why we WEREN'T going to Denver for absolutely no reason

I'm still hoping to get there... here's hoping the housing market picks up and I get a good settlement

[zollo]

heh, not to mention hassling us as to why we WEREN'T going to Denver for absolutely no reason

Yes, mea culpa

[Parris]

The problem I have is more that it's expensive if you can't make the whole 5-day con. I realize the 5-day experience is what is intended, but if you can't get a lot of time off work, the price of individual day memberships is somewhat ludicrous, and I realized my mistake later on when Stego complained about the Hugo voting--I paid $150 for two days and didn't get to vote? (Cue ex-newbie stupidity...)

Some of the points you raise, though, only make me realize more problems that can come up for a con-goer on a budget. For instance, transportation...I used to live in LA and the public transit is not exactly widespread and going to Anaheim only further hammered in that point for me. You're stranded when it comes to getting food. I hauled my food stash all the way from Reno, anticipating a lack of nearby grocery stores. At the very least, accessibility is something I'm going to keep in mind when it comes to future site selection, although by the next time Worldcon could be in the US, I'll at least be old enough to rent a car...and hopefully less broke.

I'm almost certainly going to Denver regardless of how little money I have. I am wondering, though, is there a panel/meeting at most cons that addresses planning concerns, or is it something one has to be involved with at the local level? If it's the latter, I guess I might as well start trying to bring Worldcon back to the Bay Area...

Kat

sorry I haven't responded earlier, but things been a bit crazed around here the last two months as I was suffering from a bad knee that required surgery. (Am post-op now, doing much better).

There's always a lot of discussion about various bids for WorldCons, you just need to know where to look. One place to start looking for information is:

http://worldcon.org/

this is the site for the WSFS, the non-profit org that oversees all WorldCons. It will give you lots of background information on the history and goals of the org.

From there, you can find lists of all the current WorldCon committees and links to current WorldCon bids, such as:

http://www.australia2010.org/ - our Aussie friends are bidding for 2010, and they give Good Con.

At conventions, most major regionals like BosKone, Balticon, BayCon, the bidding committees will have tables set up somewhere that will have folks promoting their bid, with plenty of information usually supplied by the tourist/convention bureau of the city. The bid tables are a good place to actually talk to the people on the bid committee, unlike the bid parties which are often too busy for detailed discussions of the convention center facilities or the hotel room rates.

At WorldCon there are panels and discussions on how to run a WorldCon bid, as well as presentations from current bids. You'll find these and many more panels about the work of running conventions at WC and other major conventions. (There's even a convention for convention runners, where the Fannish Inquisition ((a thorough examination of all aspects of a WorldCon bid)) occurs, SMOFCON, held this December in Boston: http://www.mcfi.org/smofcon/).

You can learn a lot by going to panels and listening to what the presenters have to say and asking a question or two. Just be aware that to effect change, you won't be able to do that by just complaining at a panel. Participation on a local convention level, or with a bid committee, volunteering and doing the work of reconciling membership lists, stuffing 2K progress reports into envelopes for a major mailing, helping to hang the art show starting at 10 pm instead of 4pm because you're locked out of the function space and no one could find the convention center plant manager who has the keys to let you set up earlier, those are the dues one pays to become a active member of fandom. Personally, some of my fondest memories of my early years in fandom are from those nights of doing clerical work with a bunch of fellow fans while we had a few beers and listened to a ball game while we addressed thousands of envelopes (before we all had personal computers and avery printer labels I was often assigned to typing or writing out mailing envelopes because I had good handwriting and could type 15 wpm), or cleaning up the hospitality suite one last time on Satyrday night, tucking in a couple of passed-out fans on the sofas, I found myself sitting with a group of people that included writers and artists I had admired for years, drinking the last cold bheers from the bathtub as dawn broke over the city. Those experiences are not scheduled on the program, you have to find them, create them, and be willing to get on the bus and see where it takes you.

Choosing a bid to support may be as simple as finding out that there's a bid in your hometown or nearby. Or you might want to dive deep into the nuts and bolts of the committee - how much experience does the con com have? What were the general impressions attendees had of those cons or the work of a specific person? Examples: Joe Blow boasts of his work on a well-known long running regional convention that has a good reputation in general. You ask a couple of people who went to that convention and find that Joe was in charge of the Green Room, and that Nothing Went Right in the Green Room. Or you hear that Sally Smith worked on a con that was poorly run, has a lot of debt and the GoHs were so abused that they swore, post con, to never go to another convention in that city again. But Sally Smith was the one shining light, getting a program organized when the whole damn thing was dumped on her lap three weeks before the convention. Which person would you want to see working on a bid committee? Are the jobs they have been given on the bid committee within their proven skill set?

Bid Committees should be eager to give you information, and a well prepared committee will have a set of answers for just about any basic question a prospective con member can ask.

Consider what would be important to you if you invest 3-5 days and $ to go to a WorldCon. Is the convention center and hotel facilities what you consider paramount, or the chance to go to a city you want to do 'mundane' touristing in more important? Would you actually get out to see the city? My personal needs are different than yours. WorldCon is primarily a business event for us, and George works as much as 12 hours a day at a WorldCon. We are concerned about the quality of the con com, the facilities and access, don't care too much about what city it is in, since we won't be getting off-site except for some meals and George might have signings to do at local bookstores. You might want to spend a couple of days in City X because your best buddy from college lives there and only attend WorldCon for 2 days. We know that for us WorldCon is all-consuming and if we want to see Auntie we'll have to plan to come in a day early or stay a day later.

Of course, all the information in the world isn't going to help you if you don't support a bid committee, or forego voting in the WorldCon Site Selection.

Becoming a 'pre-supporter' of a bid gives the committee needed $ to run its bid, which can run into tens of thousands over the life of a bid. It also demonstrates how many people are willing to put their money down to support a bid and gives the bid committee a pool of people to ask to volunteer at local cons and ongoing bid projects.

Site Selection voting requirements; you are a supporting/attending member of the WorldCon where the Site Selection is taking place, and you pay a voting fee that is credited toward the membership fees of the WorldCon that wins the selection. (Please note that one does not buy a 'ticket' to attend a WorldCon. You buy a membership. We make our own damn fun at WorldCon, and you're responsible for helping to make all that fun, a ticket implies that you just sit back and wait to be entertained).

While there are efforts to make available 'day passes' to those who can't go to the entire convention, the main emphasis is on preparing for and hosting a 5 day convention for attendees. There's a lot of historical background on why the membership fees are structured as they have been for the better part of 30 years that I won't go into here, but I assure you that hundreds of really smart people who give all of their spare time and money to running conventions have found that the current membership fees schedules work for most WorldCons. The current system provides a framework that the bid committees can function within, and winning committees can use to forecast their budgets. A WorldCon is trying to provide the broadest range of services to an potential membership of 3-5K attendees, and attempts to accommodate all the various needs of as many members as possible. No WorldCon committee can please everyone, and they'd be fools to try.

You'll have to decide if paying a slightly higher 'day membership' for the days you can attend the convention is better than buying a full 5 day membership at the current price of $175. I note that current cost of a adult ticket for one day at Disneyland is $66 for comparison. It's true that you won't get any rides on roller coaters at WorldCon, but it unlikely you'd find a dozen authors to schmooze with at Disneyland.

As for keeping costs down, please checkout some of my earlier posts on attending WorldCons. Even in a big city like Chicago or Philly where we've had WorldCons 'downtown', there's bound to be some sort of grocery store within a few miles. The convention will have information booths that will help you find out where they are, and the on-site publications such as the daily newsletter and the restaurant guide will usually include info on where to get groceries and a few six packs of bheers for you to enjoy privately. If you don't have a car, there's always cabs or other public transport, or you can ask around to see if people are planning to make food/booze runs for their parties and arrange to go with them. No need to haul your food from 1K miles away, but do bring the coolers. I've seen folks pack their clothes in big coolers and check them as luggage on flights, then use them for food during the cons.

Participation in helping bids, volunteering at conventions will not only give you a better perspective on how these things work, you'll also have a chance to meet a lot of interesting people, and make the con a better experience for yourself and all attendees. Many Bros here will attest that I always urge folks to donate 2-4 hours volunteering at WorldCon, and most of them who have done the work come away with a deeper appreciation of what is involved in running a convention. The only reason we're able to run WorldCons on such lean budgets is because WorldCons are all run by volunteers, often people with advanced degrees who in their day jobs might be the head of a department at a local college, or are rocket scientists by day and create anime programming schedules at night. Conventions always need volunteers. That is true a year before the con, and on Sunday afternoon of the con. Do your part to help out and you'll have a better convention experience, and will probably make a few new friends along the way.

To answer your question and to emphasize this point to others:

Yes, the membership rates for WorldCon do rise as the convention nears. I would not be surprised if Denvention's at-the-door full membership costs $275 or even $300.

WorldCon budgets are set long before the convention, and most of the money has to be spent months before the convention. Most WorldCons would rather have $175 from you a year before the convention than have $275 from you the day the con starts. For every part of the budget, publications, mailings, function space, major events, etc., etc., projected costs are based on the actual memberships subscribed. No reasonable financial officer for a WorldCon would say 'Well, we'll probably get 200 at the door memberships which would bring in at the last minute $27K and that will cover the costs of the Masquerade.' That way lies fiscal ruin, and a convention that goes over budget can affect how the future WorldCons are run while the debt is paid off, relationships with vendors, hotels and convention centers may need special care because the bad reputation of another convention run by a different committee from a distant city can impact innocent fan groups trying to get acceptable contracts for their convention.

So by all means, do join Denvention now if you are planning on going. You'll save money, spread your basic expenses over a longer period of time, and often having that membership in hand gives a person an added reason to make sure they get to the Family ReUnion, no matter what.

The San Francisco area has a great fan/writer base, and lots of activities beyond the yearly conventions. Do some investigation and attend some events, you're likely to find a group you'll enjoy being part of. There's been some great WorldCons in the Bay area, I'm sure that there would be support and enthusiasm for a new SF WorldCon bid, hope we hear of one starting up as you take Bay area fandom by storm. ;->

(thus endeth this lesson in the Way of the WorldCon, any questions?)

[Xray the Enforcer]

fantastic run-down, Parris. Thank you for the info. I'm finding more and more that conventions can be the Paths to Madness.

(and more healing vibes to your knee)

[Parris]

fantastic run-down, Parris. Thank you for the info. I'm finding more and more that conventions can be the Paths to Madness.

(and more healing vibes to your knee)

Thanks, X, I started rehab on the knee today and am very grumpy.

Indeed, running conventions is a very special form of madness, and I bless the greater majority of the good folk who do it as a hobby/avocation/obsession. The least we can do is try to appreciate the complexity and effort involved, and give them a hand when they need some help.

And really, you can tell me, you Bros are planning an International GRRMcon when book 7 is released, aren't you? After all, you've got years to plan and choose your site and GoHs...

[Bazzlebane]

My god that would be fantastic. Though the obvious location would be Albuquerque, wouldn't it?

[Parris]

My god that would be fantastic. Though the obvious location would be Albuquerque, wouldn't it?

I think George would prefer some place with crennellations. and a moat.

[Bazzlebane]

Hey, I like crennellations, and moats! I'd best start saving money for the flight to Britain/Europe now .

In the meantime, I'll try and save money for Denver, because I'm still thinking about making the leap to my first con. Reading Dreamsongs and GRRM's snippets between the stories about some of his adventures at the cons over the years is somewhat inspirational.

[Padraig]

And really, you can tell me, you Bros are planning an International GRRMcon when book 7 is released, aren't you? After all, you've got years to plan and choose your site and GoHs...

Yes, remind us of how long we'll have to wait. Although we will definitely have to do something humongous to mark the occassion.

And all the best on your rehab Parris.

[Bazzlebane]

At least she didn't say years to plan in relation to ADwD!

[Xray the Enforcer]

I hear Zak has some experience planning conventions and other such nerdly gatherings. Congrats BwB Scotland for your winning bid for GRRMarathon, 2020!

(with any luck, Mr. X and I will have made The Move by then, which means I just shot myself in the foot.)