The ethics of "free" e-books

[kuenjato]

To be absolutely clear, I want to draw a very bold line between "what is" and "what should be".

People should not be stealing books, but people do. Publishers live in the world of the real, and as such need to tackle what is happening. I believe that in the future we're going to see almost all books consumed in an electronic format, like music. (Some people still buy LPs, because they prefer that, but it's increasingly a niche market)

What we're seeing right now is an almost blow by blow repeat of the transition from physical to electronic delivery of music: the publishers are holding onto the old system as long as they can. But change is coming, and I' think they'd be smart to get out in front of that change and try to influence how the future will look rather than letting it happen to them.

This.

I've stated it as well, but it doesn't seem to be computing and/or it's just thudding headlong into the wall of moral outrage.

The book industry has basically done what the major music labels did in wake of Napster circa 1999-2001. We all saw how that worked out. The ranting about "kids these days / jail 'em all / for shame (finger wag)" probably feels good but isn't terribly effective in dealing with the issues.

[Larry of the Lawn]

There are other ways to compensate artists, writers, and musicians for there work.

Sexual favors and scotch.

[mgambino]

Which takes longer, DRM removal or download in the format you are converting to anyway?

Probably looking for a pirated copy, actually. Calibre and Alf and make the process of DRM removal and format conversion completely automated. Assuming you use Calibre to manage your ebooks (and if you don't, you should because it's awesome), it takes about 30 seconds.

Also, there shouldn't be any need to fuss with the formatting of a file if you're shifting from .mobi/.azw to .epub and the other way around. The formatting should stay pretty much identical.

...keep in mind, I need my ebooks in both formats because I use both a Kindle (.mobi/.azw) and an Iphone with Marvin (.epub).

[mgambino]

Do tell. It'll save me a lot of grief.

The trick to avoiding regional restrictions is to simply buy ebooks from Kobo.com using PayPal. Kobo doesn't verify billing addresses, so you can say you're from whatever country you want.

[TrackerNeil]

I hope everyone knows that Smashwords is a source of perfectly legal, DRM-free books. I urge anyone thinking of illegally downloading to first consider that source. By using a torrent, no one is sticking it to The Man; you're sticking it to the author, who is likely making less money than you are.

[SilentRoamer]

Probably looking for a pirated copy, actually. Calibre and Alf and make the process of DRM removal and format conversion completely automated. Assuming you use Calibre to manage your ebooks (and if you don't, you should because it's awesome), it takes about 30 seconds.

Also, there shouldn't be any need to fuss with the formatting of a file if you're shifting from .mobi/.azw to .epub and the other way around. The formatting should stay pretty much identical.

...keep in mind, I need my ebooks in both formats because I use both a Kindle (.mobi/.azw) and an Iphone with Marvin (.epub).

Yeah I use Calibre and I suppose there's not much difference in terms of time but what's the difference either way. Both methods of obtaining the alternate format are illegal.

So that begs the question. Is there a difference between converting an epub between digital formats and converting a physical book to an ebook?

I may be wrong but your post seemed to think one was more/less legal/moral than the other?

[Recovering forum addict]

This is simple, the fact that you own a copy of a book does not give you the unfettered right to copy the entire book into any format you desire. Your purchase of a book only entitles you to that copy. Just like your movie ticket grants you the right to see that particular showing of a film.

That's a very extreme position to take. Format shifting is explicitly allowed in most sane copyright legislation.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Opis,

So, if I own the paper book I'm entitled to own the audiobook? That's the same thing in a different format, right?

[Which Tyler]

Are you planning to experience the audio book with your eyes?

[Recovering forum addict]

Opis,

So, if I own the paper book I'm entitled to own the audiobook? That's the same thing in a different format, right?

If you format shift the paper book into audio (by recording it yourself, or scanning and OCRing it and having a voice synthesiser read it for you), sure.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Ser Scot, I am in NO way trying to attack you, but rather help you try to see what everyone is saying. Most posters here are simply stating that once they buy a book, that they are entitled to the content. Which by any reasonable human being seems to be a very reasonable assumption. I think the "majority" of posters here are responsible adults, and have no problem paying a author for there works. Its just they don't wanna pay for the same works four or five different times, and why should they? Yes, there are thieves that go out and download every book for free and never pay a red cent for these authors work of art, and that is a damn shame. But, most people seem to be very reasonable in this thread. Their not saying they don't wanna pay, they just don't want to be robbed. And vice versa with the authors. I'm sure they would have no qualm with somebody who purchased the physical book also getting a free digital form of the same work. Why not? If not, then that shows me the greed that has infested today's society.

The simple and easy way to fix this, and many have alluded to it, is first lower the prices of ebooks. Its digital, and as stated, you only have to produce it once and can sell it a infinite number of times. Second, if you purchase a physical book, then you should be entitled to the digital. Hell, all the would have to do is put a coupon in the book with a code on it, that allows you to download the content at a site of their choosing.

By charging too much for ebooks and not offering a legal way to download a digital format when purchasing a physical book, they are inviting the practice of "piracy". And, I feel, if they implement something along these lines, it would produce the same effect as iTunes did.

[mgambino]

Actually, I use Voice Dream all the time to listen to my e-books. I know it's not the same as an audiobook, but the voice quality is solid and it solves another format shifiting issue without piracy.

... I'm pretty sure that there is nothing even remotely questionable about this use of an ePub either.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

MSJ,

I other words you're saying if you by ththe real book you are entitled to a digital copy like with many DVD's and that would cut down on piracy because there is an easy way to get a legal copy. That's reasonable. I still don't condone piracy because a digital copy isn't available.

[Corvinus85]

Ser Scot, I am in NO way trying to attack you, but rather help you try to see what everyone is saying. Most posters here are simply stating that once they buy a book, that they are entitled to the content. Which by any reasonable human being seems to be a very reasonable assumption. I think the "majority" of posters here are responsible adults, and have no problem paying a author for there works. Its just they don't wanna pay for the same works four or five different times, and why should they? Yes, there are thieves that go out and download every book for free and never pay a red cent for these authors work of art, and that is a damn shame. But, most people seem to be very reasonable in this thread. Their not saying they don't wanna pay, they just don't want to be robbed. And vice versa with the authors. I'm sure they would have no qualm with somebody who purchased the physical book also getting a free digital form of the same work. Why not? If not, then that shows me the greed that has infested today's society.

The simple and easy way to fix this, and many have alluded to it, is first lower the prices of ebooks. Its digital, and as stated, you only have to produce it once and can sell it a infinite number of times. Second, if you purchase a physical book, then you should be entitled to the digital. Hell, all the would have to do is put a coupon in the book with a code on it, that allows you to download the content at a site of their choosing.

By charging too much for ebooks and not offering a legal way to download a digital format when purchasing a physical book, they are inviting the practice of "piracy". And, I feel, if they implement something along these lines, it would produce the same effect as iTunes did.

That seems reasonable to me, too. How would you prove that you are the owner of a print copy, though? Is there, or can there be a system that enables a person to obtain a free e-book based on proof of ownership? If such a system cannot be implemented, then things would get abused pretty quickly.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

MSJ,

I other words you're saying if you by ththe real book you are entitled to a digital copy like with many DVD's and that would cut down on piracy because there is an easy way to get a legal copy. That's reasonable. I still don't condone piracy because a digital copy isn't available.

No, I understand where you're coming from. And see that its a huge concern of yours and I respect that. I just think there are ways around solving this problem, and that most comments I've read, they're not condoning "piracy" for the sake of getting it for free. Their just saying if they bought the physical book, they should be entitled to the digital for free. And, let's be realistic here, most people aren't going to take the time to make their own epub, .mobi, etc, etc. So, since the publishers don't offer a reasonable way of getting the digital along with physical book, they do it themselves by downloading for free on the internet. I really think its something the publishers need to tackle and make adjustments to, so they can keep a happy consumer base. Like I said, it seems most people here aren't trying to get away with not buying and supporting the author, they just want the content on whatever medium they choose. Its a slippery subject, and I agree 100% with you that any author deserves to be paid for their work.

[TrackerNeil]

Like I said, it seems most people here aren't trying to get away with not buying and supporting the author, they just want the content on whatever medium they choose. Its a slippery subject, and I agree 100% with you that any author deserves to be paid for their work.

I don't think readers in general are trying to rip off authors, but I am convinced there is a hard core (and, I hope/believe, a small one) of people who want books for free make up any number of excuses why they should be able to get them that way. I wouldn't have bought it anyway or the publisher charges too much are just excuses, and I wish we could acknowledge them as such and then get on to more productive parts of the conversation.

I'd love to see a system in which the reader has the opportunity to purchase wider access to the book; for example, for an extra free, she gets not only the paperback but a DRM-free ebook as well.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

I don't think readers in general are trying to rip off authors, but I am convinced there is a hard core (and, I hope/believe, a small one) of people who want books for free make up any number of excuses why they should be able to get them that way. I wouldn't have bought it anyway or the publisher charges too much are just excuses, and I wish we could acknowledge them as such and then get on to more productive parts of the conversation.

I'd love to see a system in which the reader has the opportunity to purchase wider access to the book; for example, for an extra free, she gets not only the paperback but a DRM-free ebook as well.

That's what I was trying to say. There is a portion of people who do that, because they're ignorant cheapskates. And you'll never change them. I believe most people want to pay authors for the enjoyment and knowledge they share with us. Most of us, just can't afford to buy the same books in 3-4 different formats, and why should we have to? Its something the publishers need to fix, and the solution is not rocket science.

[TrackerNeil]

That's what I was trying to say. There is a portion of people who do that, because they're ignorant cheapskates. And you'll never change them. I believe most people want to pay authors for the enjoyment and knowledge they share with us. Most of us, just can't afford to buy the same books in 3-4 different formats, and why should we have to? Its something the publishers need to fix, and the solution is not rocket science.

I do think, however, that part of this is perhaps just expectations. People who see a movie at a theatre don't expect to get a DVD on the way out. For decades, Americans regularly updated their music libraries, from vinyl to 8-track to cassette to CD, because nobody expected that their one-time purchase entitled them to rights to the music in any form in perpetuity. Now that there's digital music expectations have changed, and I am not sure why. I suppose it doesn't matter now, though; digital art is here and we all have to adjust to it.

[Spockydog]

The simple and easy way to fix this, and many have alluded to it, is first lower the prices of ebooks.

These are the current top 20 ebook bestsellers on Amazon (SciFi & Fantasy). So enough with the 'all ebookz is waaaaay overpriced' bullshit.

1. The Enchantress by James Maxwell - £3.49

2. The Last Passenger by Manuel Loureiro - £3.99

3. Marked by Sarah Fine - £3.99

4. Taming the Alpha by Mandy Roth - £0.77

5. Foxglove Summer by Ben Aaronovitch- £4.72

6. Kiss of Christmas Magic by Eve Langlais £0.77

7. The Hidden Relic by James Maxwell £3.49

8. Critical Dawn by Wearmouth & Barnes - £0.97

9. Pines by Blake Crouch - £3.99

10. The Martian by Andy Weir - £2.49

11. The Path of the Storm by James Maxwell - £3.49

12. Gods and Dragons by Daniel Arenson - £0.77

13. Jonas by KF Breene - £0.77

14. Shifters After Dark (Box Set) by SM Reine - £0.77

15. The Lore of the Evermen by James Maxwell - £3.99

16. A Game of Thrones by GRRM – £3.49

17. The Last Legion by Valerio Massimo Manfredi - £3.59

18. A Shade of Kiev by Bella Frost - £1.99

19. A Dance With Dragons by GRRM - £3.66

20. Royal Assassin by Robin Hobb - £2.99

[kuenjato]

I do think, however, that part of this is perhaps just expectations. People who see a movie at a theatre don't expect to get a DVD on the way out. For decades, Americans regularly updated their music libraries, from vinyl to 8-track to cassette to CD, because nobody expected that their one-time purchase entitled them to rights to the music in any form in perpetuity. Now that there's digital music expectations have changed, and I am not sure why. I suppose it doesn't matter now, though; digital art is here and we all have to adjust to it.

Partly--and I'm conjecturing here--the fact that the cost of reproduction is so minuscule. Sure they don't hand out DVD's, even the physical components cost some money (not much when mass manufactured), but with the removal of physical media and all it entails--storage, distribution centers, the various middlemen and paperwork-passers etc.--the ancillary costs are removed.

That, and music is so readily available for free from other outlets -- radio, for example, or music channels on tv/net -- that even though there is a cost (licensing side, enduring advertisements), the perception is that it is now free. I think that perception is congruent, to some extent, to books as well.

Tracker, I have a question: as confronting the torrent sites had no effect, have you seen readership increases from the frequenting of this and other forums, and other forms of "casual" marketing? It seems that people are still purchasing media (books, movies, music), just in different forms and in different ways, and generally for cheaper/greater quantity. One reason the music industry has suffered such losses is that their pricing scheme (wallet-gouging CDs) coupled with selective song availability (.99 for the song you want rather than 15-18 for a CD of filler) has cut into the traditional profit streams--people are able to select their purchasing power more efficiently, which is good for the consumer, if not good for the monolithic old system.