What do authors owe us?

[Moshe Goldberg Rubinshteyn]

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1614672' date='Dec 10 2008, 10.11']In other words: its not profitable to say this book is projected to have y- installments.[/quote]

Tales grow with the telling. The projection of Y installments doesn't have to be entirely accurate as long as it is an honest estimate by the author or publisher.

Btw. I would feel more comfortable if we could keep GRRM out of this discussion. Please.

[mormont]

[quote name='bram452' post='1614631' date='Dec 10 2008, 14.41']Oh, totally idly. Raw, self-indulgent whingeing. Ignore it.[/quote]

So glad to hear it. ;)

I'm going to slightly disagree with what you wrote here, though. I think what you're saying - about choosing not to buy more books by an author, etc. because of disappointment - and the existence of an obligation to you by the author. More, I think there's a difference between an offer and a promise. This:

[quote]At the beginning of each story or book I write, I'm promising the reader a particular kind of experience.[/quote]

is an open offer, not a specific promise to the individual reader. It's up to me as a reader to take up the offer or not. If it meets my needs, we are both satisfied. If it doesn't, I walk away. No obligations, on either side.

In the case of a book in a series, I'd admit that the offer includes an element 'if you like this, I can supply more'. But again, it's an open offer, not a specific commitment. As Ran says, we're consumers.

[Exa Inova]

[quote]as long as it is an honest estimate by the author or publisher.[/quote]
Suuuuure. :rolleyes:

[Krafus]

[quote name='bram452' post='1614673' date='Dec 10 2008, 10.12']I'm hearing you say two things. First, that your expectations and desires for this particular story aren't getting met, and you feel frustrated and angry about that. I respect that.

I'm also hearing you say that authors are obligated to express and expose their private lives and process -- what I hear when you say "be honestly forthright" -- in public. This, I have a harder time with.

Have I understood you correctly?[/quote]

Not quite. By "being honestly forthright," I was speaking only of ASOIAF, not of GRRM's private life. If he wants to post about it (or not) on his website, that's entirely his choice, and I have no problem about that. He is under absolutely no obligation of whatever kind to do so. EDIT: And by "it," I mean his private life.

What I find frustrating is that, while he provides us with such a wealth of information about his life and doings, he is being so conspicuously silent about ADwD's progress. It's a contradiction that I find dishonest toward ASOIAF readers - especially when it could so easily be resolved by GRRM taking an hour to, well, update the update and just tell us what's going on.

[Calibandar]

Bram

[quote]I'm also hearing you say that authors are obligated to express and expose their private lives and process -- what I hear when you say "be honestly forthright" -- in public. This, I have a harder time with.[/quote]

I took this line from Krafus to mean that he felt GRRM wasn't being honestly forthright about ADWD. That GRRM gives information about personal and professional things going on in his life on his blog, but nothing meaningful on ADWD. This is a sentiment I agree with btw, and I share Krafus' irritation about that fact.

I don't think he was saying that GRRM owes his readers an explanation about his private life on his blog, or elsewhere, which is what you seem to be taking exception to. And here too I agree, he doesn't owe his readers such an explanation about his private life.

[mormont]

I think 'irritation' about the contents of an author's blog is, again, something that comes from your expectations and preconceptions rather than being their responsibility. In the case of GRRM, although he does use the blog to mention product releases etc. it's not a 'fan update service' and he has never suggested that it would be. If you want it to be, and are frustrated that it is not, whose problem is that?

[DanielAbraham]

[quote name='Krafus' post='1614689' date='Dec 10 2008, 08.27']Not quite. By "being honestly forthright," I was speaking only of ASOIAF, not of GRRM's private life. If he wants to post about it (or not) on his website, that's entirely his choice, and I have no problem about that. He is under absolutely no obligation of whatever kind to do so. EDIT: And by "it," I mean his private life.[/quote]

Ah. Thank you for the clarification.

[sologdin]

i have crafted a new [i]in terrorem[/i] letter to handle the problem of unfinished series:

[quote]Dear [Author],

I have followed your [Series Name] series with considerable interest, the most recent volume of which, [Title], was published on [Date].

However, due to the excessive delay in your publication schedule, I write now to inform you that I am no longer following the series with considerable interest.

Under art. 2-612(1) of the UCC, an installment contract is one which requires the delivery of goods in separate lots to be separately accepted.

By marketing your [Series Name] series as a series, you have offered an implied installment contract, and my purchase of an installment of [Series Name] with knowledge of its serialization created an installment contract between you, the author, and me, the reader. I therefore have an expectation interest in the completion of [Series Name].

Under art. 2-612(3) of the UCC, whenever default with respect to one or more installments substantially impairs the value of the whole contract there is a breach of the whole. In the case of [Series Name], your excessive delays of subsequent volumes has impaired the value of the entire series for me.

I therefore urge you to liquidate the delay in your publication schedule and produce the next installment of [Series Name] immediately.

If you fail to take necessary measures to assuage my injury in this regard, then I will regard you as in breach of your obligations under our implied installment contract, and we will continue this discussion with legal representation, wherein I will demand a full refund of the books in [Series Name] that I have already purchased, as well as the [price] of books not published, to offset my aesthetic losses and readerly opportunity costs.

Furthermore, if you, [Author], continue in your obdurate delay, I will file a civil complaint in tort for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress, claiming [amount] in damages for pain and suffering, as well as [amount] in punitive damages.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter, and good day.

s/ [you][/quote]

i hereby authorize this letter for third-party use, free of charge, and waive all rights to it under copyright law.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

"This is the greatest case of 'false advertising' since the release of [i]The Neverending Story[/i]!" - Lionel Hutz.

[OverHill]

[quote name='mormont' post='1614700' date='Dec 10 2008, 16.35']I think 'irritation' about the contents of an author's blog is, again, something that comes from your expectations and preconceptions rather than being their responsibility. In the case of GRRM, although he does use the blog to mention product releases etc. it's not a 'fan update service' and he has never suggested that it would be. If you want it to be, and are frustrated that it is not, whose problem is that?[/quote]
But GRRM does use his "Not a Blog" to update on ADWD.

[Krafus]

[quote name='mormont' post='1614700' date='Dec 10 2008, 10.35']I think 'irritation' about the contents of an author's blog is, again, something that comes from your expectations and preconceptions rather than being their responsibility. In the case of GRRM, although he does use the blog to mention product releases etc. it's not a 'fan update service' and he has never suggested that it would be. If you want it to be, and are frustrated that it is not, whose problem is that?[/quote]

I happen to think that, in this day and age, authors with an online presence should make a reasonable effort to communicate with their readers if they encounter significant problems, which will lead to significant delays, when writing a multi-novel series. Or if they just want to devote their attention to other projects for a while, which will have the same effect on said series. In my opinion, GRRM has failed to do this where ADwD (and by extension ASOIAF) is concerned. I find that irritating, yes, and it adds to my aggravation that, while being so closed and silent about ADwD's progress, he is being so open about seemingly everything else.

[Krafus]

[quote name='OverHill' post='1614722' date='Dec 10 2008, 10.50']But GRRM does use his "Not a Blog" to update on ADWD.[/quote]

He mentions ADwD there from time to time, yes, but there's no concrete information about how it's progressing or when he expects to finish it.

[Lupigis]

[quote name='sologdin' post='1614716' date='Dec 10 2008, 16.44']i have crafted a new [i]in terrorem[/i] letter to handle the problem of unfinished series:[/quote]

sologdin wins this thread! :lol:

[Myrddin]

Authors don't owe their readers anything, but their bread and butter flow from keeping them satisfied, whether that is with well written prose or a timely release of a promised sequel. In some literary catagories, not having a release every year is detrimental to an author's sales and following. Fantasy is a unique beast, in this aspect. More forgiving.

Breaking expectations from either quality or release schedules can cost them readers (ie sales). There are few writers who can afford to do this for long, before their hard built base of readership dwindles away.

Let's take Robert Jordan for example. I mourned his death, but had no plans to buy another of his books past the end of the Wheel. While I still want to know the end of the story, he stretched the series beyond what I, as a reader, felt it needed to be. Too many subplots to muddle the story away from the core. Too much time between books. Too many characters to remember between said gaps.

Had he lived to write them, I wouldn't have bothered reading Infinities of Heaven or the Outrigger series. He didn't owe he anything, and likewise, I didn't owe him another sale.

Authors do not owe their readers anything. But only a fool pretends it isn't his or her job as an author to keep earning his/her readership. Grippingstories is one way. Timely releases are another.

[Geddon]

As far as I'm concerned when an author releases the first book in a series they are implying that they are going to make a good faith attempt to bring the series to a conclusion in a timely manner.

Most books released as a series follow a similar pattern - a new instalment every few years until the series is finished and the author moves on to other things. This pattern is so common that it has come to be [i]expected[/i] by readers and, to a certain extent, books released as part of a series [i]rely[/i] upon this expectation for their sales. Let's be honest, if an author released the first book in a series with the disclaimer that they were ambivalent about finishing the series and a message to the reader not to expect further volumes or a conclusion then sales would suffer badly - potential customers would instead invest in other series that were likely to be completed.

I believe it is an unwritten compact between the author and the reader "Buy my book, the first instalment in my new series, invest the time to read it and engage with my characters and story and I'll see you right. I won't leave you hanging."

It's a brave author that breaks that compact, even though he or she can truthfully say they never promised anything and there's no contract on paper, because in breaking it they risk destroying the goodwill and trust of the reader. Come the release of their next book (especially if it is a series book) they may find that the reader is no longer willing to invest their money or time with them. They'll also have risked damaging one of the more powerful promotional tools available to an author - word of mouth. The last thing an author wants is readers actually cautioning other people against beginning a series of books because they believe that the series is unlikely to be completed.

"Owe" and "obligation" imply too strong a relationship, but I do believe there is something there between author and reader where multi-book series are concerned.

[Argon]

O.K. so, no obligations, no owing, no trust.

What's the consequence? Never to read unfinished series?

[Myrddin]

[quote name='Argon' post='1614836' date='Dec 10 2008, 10.31']O.K. so, no obligations, no owing, no trust.

What's the consequence? Never to read unfinished series?[/quote]
To the author or the reader?

Consequence for an author not finishing a series: No more or diminished sales.
(If he/she never writes another book, than there is no consequence. If the author is trying to sell a new book or, foolishly enough, a new series, the past will haunt)

Consequence for the reader of an unfinished series: No closure, completion.
Kind of like the fans of Firefly or Carnival. :)

[Vegas]

[quote name='Myrddin' post='1614848' date='Dec 10 2008, 12.42']Consequence for an author not finishing a series: No more or diminished sales.
(If he/she never writes another book, than there is no consequence. If the author is trying to sell a new book or, foolishly enough, a new series, the past will haunt)[/quote]

And possibly, as seems to be the case with Mr. Abraham (and I suspect GRRM as well), a culturally imposed feeling of... what would be the word for being a disappointment?

[alguien]

Droit de seigneur

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Vegas,

[quote]And possibly, as seems to be the case with Mr. Abraham (and I suspect GRRM as well), a culturally imposed feeling of... what would be the word for being a disappointment?[/quote]

I think you are looking for a phrase not a word. The phrase I think you are looking for is "Instantanious gratification."