The NFL Thread

[Arakasi]

Well if that was so than you'd thing King would have mentioned it in his column. He's usually pretty well informed on this stuff.

Plus a conditional pick next year wouldn't make much sense. No matter how good Cassel is they're not going to be a winning team next year or make the playoffs. So any thing like Favre's you make the playoffs and it will be a second instead of a 4th doesn't make much sense. And Cassel and Vrabel are certainly not worth a 1 and a 2. Doubtful they are even worth two 2s.

[Arakasi]

[url="http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast"]http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast[/url]

[i]The New England Patriots have released a statement to confirm they have traded quarterback Matt Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel to the Kansas City Chiefs in exchange for the 34th overalls election in this year's draft.[/i]

Seems pretty cut and dry. Haven't seen the actual statement, but I doubt they would have missed to say the conditional pick was in there.

Pat's website confirms this too.

[url="http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?ac=searchdetail&pid=36425&pcid=47&rss=1"]http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?a...id=47&rss=1[/url]

[Kalbear]

It's not really a second rounder exactly. Or if it is, it's the 2nd round type that's typically the best value proposition. Late 1st/early second have been shown to get the most value for the money overall.

So not as bad as '2nd round pick'.

Still, a bit of a surprise to lose both. Wonder who they're going after?

[dornish prince]

[quote name='Kalbear' post='1703516' date='Feb 28 2009, 14.53']Still, a bit of a surprise to lose both. Wonder who they're going after?[/quote]

that's the rub that i don't understand. unless they intended to cut vrabel, it doesn't make any sense. vrabel on his own gets nothing and i mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. i say that with the utmost respect to vrabel.

i don't understand franchise economics so i may be off base. the only thing that i can figure is that they didn't want to pay him (re-up his contract) or they owed him more money than they wanted to pay. :dunno:

with the chiefs 2nd round pick...personally i'd go with darius heyward-bey(sp?). he isn't gonna make the first round, i don't care what anyone says, and they dumped gaffney. if not, then maybe an LB. foregoing the folk we know will be gone, who is left? perhaps, they'll use the pick to trade up.

if that is the case then the obvious choice, to me anyway, is brian cushing. he may make it to the second round but, in a perfect world, he doesn't.

who knows what they are thinking??? it is so out of character that it makes me believe that they have a plan that no one is expecting.

like...

they will use the pick, and others, to move up high enough to take someone like rey mauasldfjsdojluga from USC. he could replace vrabel and be a huge upgrade. they tend to build from the defensive side with young guys and take everyone's leavings for the offensive guys.

what a conundrum.

[Arakasi]

[quote name='mister cobble' post='1703548' date='Feb 28 2009, 14.57']they will use the pick, and others, to move up high enough to take someone like rey mauasldfjsdojluga from USC. he could replace vrabel and be a huge upgrade. they tend to build from the defensive side with young guys and take everyone's leavings for the offensive guys.

what a conundrum.[/quote]

Why does there have to be some master plan? It's a good place to draft from and they have a good history of drafting from that position (Logan Mankins anyone?). There is probably a ton of players they are targeting for that position.

[Trystane]

[url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80efe6f7&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true"]Denver signs Brian Dawkins to 5-year deal.[/url] I think I just died a little inside. I really thought the Eagles's FO was going to try and bring him back. This just sickens me.

[Arakasi]

At 36 already there is no way he is playing 5 years. It's like Heynesworth's 7 year deal, it will never go that far either. Dawkins will be out of this league in 3 years tops.

[Trebla]

Thw Cowboys ARE going to sign a 33 year old line bacnker who will become a team leader.

It's just not the one everyone thought. The cowbys are signing [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3942571"]MLB Keith Brooking[/url]to a 3 year deal. No word on the money, which I'm really interested in. Ray Lewis wants a bundle.

Keith Brooking a Cowboy? I'm pretty stunned. But he's been a damn good player. Not Ray, but we'll see.

[Space Bandito]

What I weekend. Take it from a Brady lover. Brady better show up this year, because the draft is not going to answer all the questions for the Patriots. TE, 3rd WR, Who is starting at RB? Not to mention a defense that gave up the season by being horrible on 3rd down. No big plays.

How do you feel about the Cowboys picking up Kitna. I think that might be a good fit. I think Ray is gonna stay in Baltimore. He just needs to let that Ego sit for a day or so.

I am very frustrated at the Patriots giving up a team leader for NOTHING. Cassel was worth a 2nd, but but anyway. In Belichick I trust.

[dornish prince]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1703550' date='Feb 28 2009, 16.01']Why does there have to be some master plan? It's a good place to draft from and they have a good history of drafting from that position (Logan Mankins anyone?). There is probably a ton of players they are targeting for that position.[/quote]

there doesn't have to be a master plan, sir. i'm just talking out loud :P

edited for sarcasm overload

<----drinking

i will say, though, that part of the logic in making that deal HAS to be a couple of folk they feel good about dropping that far.

[Space Bandito]

Just reading about Cutler. Apparently he was/is convinced The Broncos wanted to trade him for Cassel and he is kind of pissed.

[url="http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/02/cutler-thinks-hes-still-on-the.html"]http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2...ill-on-the.html[/url]

[quote]My understanding at this point is they're trying to trade me," Cutler told Mike Klis of the Denver Post. "We'll see where I end up at. I liked it here, I liked playing with these guys but obviously they're not going to let me have that opportunity."

Past tense. I liked it here.[/quote]

[dornish prince]

[quote name='Space Bandito' post='1703666' date='Feb 28 2009, 20.54']Just reading about Cutler. Apparently he was/is convinced The Broncos wanted to trade him for Cassel and he is kind of pissed.

[url="http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/02/cutler-thinks-hes-still-on-the.html"]http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2...ill-on-the.html[/url][/quote]

:lol:

:o

diva anyone?

[Space Bandito]

[quote name='mister cobble' post='1703674' date='Feb 28 2009, 21.02']:lol:

:o

diva anyone?[/quote]

What? All his rich friends are gonna go with him and take their ball and the poor new coach isn't gonna have anyone to play with because they LOVE HIM that much. :P

[Trebla]

[quote name='Space Bandito' post='1703659' date='Feb 28 2009, 19.45']What I weekend. Take it from a Brady lover. Brady better show up this year, because the draft is not going to answer all the questions for the Patriots. TE, 3rd WR, Who is starting at RB? Not to mention a defense that gave up the season by being horrible on 3rd down. No big plays.

How do you feel about the Cowboys picking up Kitna. I think that might be a good fit. I think Ray is gonna stay in Baltimore. He just needs to let that Ego sit for a day or so.

I am very frustrated at the Patriots giving up a team leader for NOTHING. Cassel was worth a 2nd, but but anyway. In Belichick I trust.[/quote]


well, the Cowboy fans on various boards are FREAKING because they traded CB Anthony Henry for Kitna. Henty started the last 4 season. There was talk that he would slide to FS and Ken Hamlin would go to SS to replace Roy Williams. So now they have a hole at safety and a lot of experience gone at CB. The flipside is that more than likely 2nd year player Orlando Scandrick will probably start at CB. And they also have last year's 1st rounder Mike Jenkins developing. Scardrick was GREAT last year as a rookie, playing the slot.

I think Kitna is a good fit. 36 yes but a HUGE upgrade over Dead Arm Brad Johnson. I think Kitna could start short term and win games. The other thing is that Kitna and Brooking should bring locker room leadership, one thing the Cowboys DESPERATELY need.

[Space Bandito]

Hmmm. Didn't realize they gave up Anthony Henry, but you would know more about CB depth for that team than I would. But what team really has any solid corner depth. Good back up vs Solid Corner :dunno: Tough

[childe roland]

well done denver way to alienate your probowl qb with f all in the cupboard to replace him. hope he somehow gets traded to the bears cause i'm just happy when chicago is better

[sToNED_CAT]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1703611' date='Feb 28 2009, 19.01']At 36 already there is no way he is playing 5 years. It's like Heynesworth's 7 year deal, it will never go that far either. Dawkins will be out of this league in 3 years tops.[/quote]

The contract with Dawkings can be voided after 2 years. I don't think he'll last longer. But I'm surprised Eagles were unable to offer him 3.5 mil. per season, they have a lot of cap space.

The Cutler situation is insane. I just hope it was blown out of proportion by media and they never wanted to shop him. But if McD really wanted to trade Cutler for Cassel he should be tared and feathered.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='mister cobble' post='1703113' date='Feb 28 2009, 01.41']if i didn't pull for atlanta, it would be washington. haynesworth is a beast, in more ways than one *face stomp*, but in no way, shape or form is he worth his contract. granted, he's never gonna play it out but still :dunno:

his pressure up the middle will make deangelo look good; make no bones about it. however, the thing that is gonna stall him is the play of carlos rogers. CR is the reason why everyone is spilling their guts about why in the world they didn't resign springs.

no coordinator in their right mind is gonna pick on carlos. because of that, when opposing teams pass the ball, it is gonna be to deangelo's side more often than not. so, we'll see. IMO, without the signing of haynesworth, hall isn't signed. well, he may have been signed but his agent never would've been able to get that contract.

hall, i feel, is in for a world of hurt...just like in oakland. i say this because albert, despite his contract, isn't gonna be in the backfield on every play. in addition to that, most teams know not to pass to carlos' side. so, it'll be pick, pick, pick on deangelo and, sooner rather than later, he'll be exposed.

it'll be then that the redskins realize that they should've kept a hungry, team player like springs.

deangelo is one of those players that stick their noses to the grindstone when money is on the line. he's not alone, to be sure, but he sticks out like a sore thumb. if it were up to deangelo, it'd be the washington halls. he believes, unfortunately, that he is THAT good.

if sean were still around, i'd take a rogers/springs/taylor secondary over a rogers/hall/taylor secondary any day of the week...and so would pundits and any coaching staff worth their salt.

their offense is a different story but if they stick with campbell, get him some receivers (not counting cooley) and quit trying to teach him an entirely new offense every offseason, they'll be fine. if they don't do it soon, then they'll have to start worrying about who they are gonna replace portis with and then they'll go right back to being fucked.

they aren't the baltimore ravens.[/quote]

Wow, agree with all of this. Especially the part about Carlos Rogers. It's absurd to me they'd chase Raider castoff Deangelo Hall while spurning Carlios Rogers who was having one of the great CB seasons I've ever seen. Sure his hands suck, but that's why he's a CB and not a WR. He was still as shutdown as anyone I've seen until they messed with his confidence and played Hall and Springs ahead of him. I've seen Hall..he's no Carlos Rogers. And if we lose Rogers because we were so desperate to sign Hall, I'm gonna be pissed. For the last goddamn time, take care of your own, and[i] then [/i]take care of the overhyped free agent.

Now with Springs cut, Hall is playing opposite Rogers, and I agree with DP, he's not anywhere close to as fundamentally sound. Assuming Rogers is right, Hall will be targeted over and over again..and he'll get exposed. Just like he got exposed playing opposite Asomugha. I'm still waiting for Hall to match the media attention he receives. I hope this is the year he proves he's a legit star CB...but I ain't counting on it. He better break the interception record like promised, because he takes too many bad chances to be justified otherwise.

[quote name='Space Bandito' post='1703666' date='Feb 28 2009, 20.54']Just reading about Cutler. Apparently he was/is convinced The Broncos wanted to trade him for Cassel and he is kind of pissed.

[url="http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2009/02/cutler-thinks-hes-still-on-the.html"]http://blogs.nbcsports.com/home/archives/2...ill-on-the.html[/url][/quote]

PFT had a story assserting McDaniels was trying to trade Cutler straight up for Cassell which is absurd to me. Cassell played with the greatest offense ever assembled..and looked good in the process. Does that make him a legit Superbowl contending QB? I don't think so. Fujrthermore, what does Cutler have to do to prove he did more with far, far less? 28 of the other 32 teams would kill to have Cutler. I don't understand why the Broncos would take the chance to alienating him like this. Jay Cutler is the Broncos and if they get Cassel instead of him, hhey'll get exactly what they deserve.

Cutler's one of the select few guys you don't move for Cassel. One of the guys with the potential to be 10 times what Cassel could ever hope to be.

[Arakasi]

[quote name='anguy' post='1703785' date='Feb 28 2009, 23.50']The contract with Dawkings can be voided after 2 years. I don't think he'll last longer. But I'm surprised Eagles were unable to offer him 3.5 mil. per season, they have a lot of cap space.

The Cutler situation is insane. I just hope it was blown out of proportion by media and they never wanted to shop him. But if McD really wanted to trade Cutler for Cassel he should be tared and feathered.[/quote]

Yeah word was the Broncos tried to swing a 3 way deal with the Lions, Vikings and one other team that they would send them Cutler and get Cassel from NE. Seems like they went pretty hard for it, which is odd in that I think Cutler is a much better QB than Cassel.

[Rockroi]

[quote]Still, a bit of a surprise to lose both. Wonder who they're going after?[/quote]

I think its a combination of things, most notably the underlying issue that the Pats D blows and it does not get better with an aging Mike Vrable. This is a classic "better-a-year-or-two-too-early-than-a-year-or-two-too-late" type of trade with Vrable. They can no longer look at the aging LB core and even PRETEND that everything is okay. Better to get another J. Mayo-type player who will step up and make an immediate impact.

The Cassel thing was a long time coming and its got to be one of those things where EVERYONE is happy about it- Cassel gets paid so he's "astronaut rich"; the Chiefs get a QB (first time in a while) and the Pats get a solid draft pick for (hopefully) spare parts. And Cassel also has another blessing to be thankful for- Pats did not trade him to Detroit. I really had hoped they could have nabbed a #1 pick, but its not the Pats way (as kal has pointed out in the past): the 1st rounders are waaaaayyyy too expensive and usually end in needless holdouts, so Pats went with a safer #2.

[quote]I think Cutler is a much better QB than Cassel.[/quote]

So do I. At the same time, maybe there is some personality issues between the Broncos and Cutler (ie- the Broncos treat Cutler like crap). And yet isn't this interesting- KC - the team that KO'd Tom Brady -get Pioli. Cassell, Vrabel and its Pioli's first big trade... and its with the Pats. And the Pats get 4 of the top 54 picks in the draft... interesting. And the Chiefs have a LOAD of talent on offense. Very fun. Overall, happy about this trade. And possibly it is the most positive news the Pats could have about Tom Brady: would the Pats have traded Casel if Tom was NOT on track to come back by September? Not sure. I WANT to believe that, but another side of me is apprehensive.

And sorry to see Mike Vrabel going to KC. He was such a gigantic part of the Pats for years, and a Belichick favorite. He was a huge part of the team's success and a great leader and personality. A favorite story I heard was that after the Pats won their second SB, Belichick was starting a team meeting and just started hammering at guys on practice film, just ripping guys. Finally, he turns the lights on and says, "You guys think you are such hot-shits now that you are SB champs and all, and now that every media person and reporter wants to give you all blow jobs, you cannot allow yourselves to believe that hype! Its meaningless when you do not perform on the field. Now, any questions?" Vrabel raised his hand, Bill calls on him and Mike says, "Wait, what was that about us all getting blow jobs?"

Great guy.