Football Thread 12

[ljkeane]

Dammit, Alonso's in Madrid. Fucktards and wankstains.

Where did you see that? All I've seen today is that Perez has said he doesn't think Liverpool's valuation of Alonso is realistic.

[Gilgamesh]

Are you suggesting that Keegan has any tactical nous at all??

Yes. Not a phenomenal amount, admittedly, but he has done well with a number of clubs - winning promotion etc- like Fulham, Man City. But he never stayed long.

What's the alternative? That Newcastle played as well as they did in the 90's just on "passion"? Nay, he has some tactical nous. Look at the way he redeployed Owen between strikers and midfield with some success in the season before last.

[mormont]

Deja vu: I'm sure I've had this argument before.

Keegan has some basic tactical knowledge, yes. 'Nous' is an entirely different word. In context, it implies insight, wisdom, etc. Keegan is, in fact, noted for his relative lack of such insight as a manager. He has a wholly different approach to management. He's not a tactician and never has been. Does he make tactical decisions? Yes, inasmuch as any manager must do so. Does he have tactical nous? No. No more so than a manager noted for failing to develop players could be said to be a great coach, or a manager known for expensive purchases that didn't work out could be said to be a good judge of a player.

[Calibandar]

Where did you see that? All I've seen today is that Perez has said he doesn't think Liverpool's valuation of Alonso is realistic

I've seen that as well, but the reports are conflicting. Spanish newspaper Marca is reporting that Madrid has in fact nearly sealed the deal with Liverpool for 30 million because apparently Benitez didn't want to keep the player against his wishes, and apparently Alonso is very keen to go.

That would be a big, big loss for Liverpool though. Sure they'll get 30 million for it, but what player are you going to get with similar promise for your side, in that position? I've heard Aquilani from AS Roma mentioned a few times but I don't know him at all.

Gareth Barry would have been a great replacement for Alonso of course. Maybe Man City will want to sell him to Liverpool for 50 million plus :)

Huntelaar to Arsenal or Spurs, what'll it be? And I thought Chelsea was due to do a major signing as well?

[Mme Erzulie]

Ljkeane, I read it on the Norwegian Liverpool website, which usually has good sources, they have now updated their story and says he is home in San Sebastian for a few days with family and friends, though. I guess he could be asking their advice on what to do? Basque people generally don't like Spanish royalty too much, so maybe there's still hope?

[Gilgamesh]

Keegan has some basic tactical knowledge, yes. 'Nous' is an entirely different word. In context, it implies insight, wisdom, etc. Keegan is, in fact, noted for his relative lack of such insight as a manager. He has a wholly different approach to management. He's not a tactician and never has been. Does he make tactical decisions? Yes, inasmuch as any manager must do so. Does he have tactical nous? No. No more so than a manager noted for failing to develop players could be said to be a great coach, or a manager known for expensive purchases that didn't work out could be said to be a good judge of a player.

So how do you explain the way he formed the Newcastle team of the 90's? It is the media who have created this stick to bash Keegan with, largely on the basis of his England days, which I don't remember because I find England deadly dull.

In just the same way, they accused Benitez of undermining Liverpool by rotating - even though Ferguson does EXACTLY the same! They like labelling managers.

I'm open to suggestions regarding Keegan, and to an extent I agree with you- but I do think it's a media-created idea.

We at Newcastle did have a fine manager who said this: " I don't really believe in tactics."

He went on to say that if you had good players in a 4-4-2 formation that was all you needed.

Graeme Souness. What a plank.

[ljkeane]

Ljkeane, I read it on the Norwegian Liverpool website, which usually has good sources, they have now updated their story and says he is home in San Sebastian for a few days with family and friends, though. I guess he could be asking their advice on what to do? Basque people generally don't like Spanish royalty too much, so maybe there's still hope?

Yeah, I did see something about it on Sky Sports News today, apparently he was just passing through Madrid on the way to visiting his family. Obviously it's still up in the air but at least it appears he's unwilling to try and force the transfer through.

Gilgamesh, while I agree that managerial consistency would have helped Newcastle I don't think that getting Dalglish was a bad move, there probably wasn't a manager with a better record in English football outside Ferguson at the time. He's also got more tactical nous than Keegan (and he's a legend).

[Renasko]

I agree. Newcastle need to turn a new leaf, and to do this, they need to start by doing one thing: changing owners.

Dammit, Alonso's in Madrid. Fucktards and wankstains.

And how are you to know of that?

I very much doubt Liverpool will sell him.

[mormont]

So how do you explain the way he formed the Newcastle team of the 90's?

The question is rather, how do you explain its success as being the result of Keegan's alleged 'tactical nous', rather than his signing of several outstanding individual players etc.?

Keegan's career is littered with evidence that he lacks tactical nous: it's not just his England failures, nor is it a media creation. Look at Fulham or Man City: the pattern was the same wherever he went. The classic Keegan team is one that has a huge initial impact but lacks a plan B when things go wrong, and eventually loses out as a result. This is the hallmark of someone who has no significant tactical expertise: they are unable to read the game and influence it by making changes, or respond to changes in the opposition. Keegan was excellent at signing quality players, good at motivating them, and he seems to be competent as a coach, but tactics? No, that wasn't his thing. (Though you're right that the same applies to Sounness to some degree.)

[Mme Erzulie]

And how are you to know of that?

I very much doubt Liverpool will sell him.

If you'd bothered to read the rest of the thread, you would have known.

And I hope you're right.

Toure and Arbeloa are official. Pity, I liked Arbeloa. He didn't have great pace, but was very level-headed with above average technique. Let's hope Johnson stays fit.

[Hereward]

Toure and Arbeloa are official. Pity, I liked Arbeloa. He didn't have great pace, but was very level-headed with above average technique. Let's hope Johnson stays fit and out of jail.

Good luck! :P

My fondest hope for West Ham this summer has been no announcement of bankruptcy.

[ljkeane]

Toure and Arbeloa are official. Pity, I liked Arbeloa. He didn't have great pace, but was very level-headed with above average technique. Let's hope Johnson stays fit.

One of Liverpool's problems last season was that we only had one fit right back, so signing Johnson and selling Arbeloa doesn't help much with that. Unfortunately he only had one year left on his contract so I don't think there was much choice.

I'm not sure what Arsenal are doing selling all these players to Man City, I'd say they are the most vulnerable to losing their place to City and I wouldn't say they can afford to lose experienced defenders.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

I'm not sure what Arsenal are doing selling all these players to Man City, I'd say they are the most vulnerable to losing their place to City and I wouldn't say they can afford to lose experienced defenders.

QFT.

WTF is Arsenal thinking selling Touré? I guess there must have been a selling clause or whatever they are called in his his contract, but still. Strengthening the central defence had highest priority going in to the next season and now they're selling their best defender? Utter madness.

[Daeric]

Hes probably hoping that the defender he bought whose name I forget can steep in and step up immediatly.

At least Wenger this off season isn't denying that they need to buy players hes just being really slow about it. (I was just on the independent website and its listed if this £15m sale goes through Arsenal would have made a profit of 14.85m on Toure.)

[Mme Erzulie]

Good luck! :P

Shouldn't you be worried about Boa Morte? :P

[Renasko]

If you'd bothered to read the rest of the thread, you would have known.

And I hope you're right.

Sorry, had left the tab open for a good while and was only posting off what I'd read before. Here's hoping, too. Although, it might be a good thing, in a way. It'd force Benitez to put Gerrard in midfield with Mascherano, and make him at least consider signing a striker to partner Torres up front.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the Celtic game tonight. Shame there's no coverage until tomorrow night? BBC Alba are showing it tomorrow, anyway, at 10pm. I'll be keeping an eye out for any live streams of the game or something online, though. A must win game. A real shame Scott Brown and McMannus are missing. :unsure:

[Black Wizard]

And Barry Robson. iraqgoals.net has it though, with Russian commentary I'd assume. But you should be able to get the BBC Radio Scotland commentary online.

[lessthanluke]

QFT.

WTF is Arsenal thinking selling Touré? I guess there must have been a selling clause or whatever they are called in his his contract, but still. Strengthening the central defence had highest priority going in to the next season and now they're selling their best defender? Utter madness.

Toure has been shit for the past 2 seasons.

[ljkeane]

Toure has been shit for the past 2 seasons.

It's a good thing that Gallas and Silvestre have played so well then I suppose. :P

[Mme Erzulie]

I recently signed up to Bet365 (for free), and now I can watch a lot of these games streamed. I watched the Liverpool - Singapore game, and it was better than most other streams I've tried. Just a tip.