Survivor Samoa

[Gertrude]

Maybe I'm remembering Amanda so poorly because she blew the end so very, very badly. Why are people afraid to stand up and take credit for scheming and backstabbing when that was their game ... and really should be anybody's game who wants to win. The Doe eyes and tears were instantly BLEAH.

I think the Amber/Rob thing was mainly discussed later, not shown throughout the season. They wouldn't have shown any scheming between them as it would be a bit boring and would ruin the surprise/suspense. We are always at the mercy of the editors and we will never really know what's going on behind the scenes unless it plays into the story they want to tell.

[Tsavong Lah]

I think social game is an important aspect of Survivor, but it is also contingent. By that I mean a lot of social players get to the end because they are able to team up with the physical or strategic threats and be seen as the lesser target. On its own the social aspect doesn't get you very far without those other nodes of power. However, a strategic/physical player can get to the end without the help from social players (although a physical player pretty much has to win everything which is hard, and really has only been done a couple of times). Normally the final between a strategic and social player comes down to two factors: the mentality of the jury members (some seasons have a lot of childish people) and the ability of the strategic player to own their actions instead of running away from them. A social player, in most cases, is just hoping that the strategic player bungles the final TC.

Look at China. Todd and Amanda both were partners in strategy, with maybe a slight edge going to Todd, but Amanda played a better social game. Courtney had no strategy and a poor social game to boot. So why did Amanda get third? Todd owned up to the strategy and took credit for it instead of trying to run from it like Amanda did. Courtney owned up to what was essentially her uselessness, and that won her votes. Amanda didn't own up to anything, and therefore she got third despite having the best social game of all three of them.

Being a physical player is the hardest, since people aim to get you out asap (which is wrong, because physical players have such a hard time winning in the end) because they put too much focus on the need to win immunity. If you are a physical player, what is your case at the final TC? Essentially you can only say that you never gave them an opportunity to get you out. But I think most people agree that the physical challenge threats that Probst salivates over are not the ones to bet on winning the game.

My opinion of Natalie has improved since the merge. Prior to the merge she really was just coasting along hoping that her name wasn't being put down. Since then she has made inroads, which probably helped the Foa Four get to this point. It'll be interesting to see, now that control has shifted, if she falls back into ranks as just another soldier behind Russell or if she asserts herself.

[Gertrude]

I think social game is an important aspect of Survivor, but it is also contingent. By that I mean a lot of social players get to the end because they are able to team up with the physical or strategic threats and be seen as the lesser target. On its own the social aspect doesn't get you very far without those other nodes of power. However, a strategic/physical player can get to the end without the help from social players (although a physical player pretty much has to win everything which is hard, and really has only been done a couple of times).

I actually agree with most of this. A strategic/physical player can probably get farther in the game than a pure social gamer, but they both need each other to truly shine. Rob C. is the best example of someone playing a pure strategy game and letting his social game fall flat. He went far and would have won if he had made it to final 2. He had obvious game everyone could see and respect, but didn't have anyone he could trust in end-game. We've seen Colby - a powerful physical competitor - go to the end game and bring Tina because he couldn't stomach Keith being given a chance at the win. Tina and Colby were tight and people might see her as a coat-tail player, but her social skills brought her to where she needed to be.

I rate strategy only slightly higher than social skills (which include more than just being nice to everyone). The physical part I rate much lower, and really, as long as you're not a liability or completely unhelpful around camp, it doesn't play much of a part in winning the game. It can get you farther in the game via immunities and can definitely give you a big boost when needed, but you can't rely on it and it doesn't help you out and out win the game.

[Gertrude]

My opinion of Natalie has improved since the merge. Prior to the merge she really was just coasting along hoping that her name wasn't being put down. Since then she has made inroads, which probably helped the Foa Four get to this point. It'll be interesting to see, now that control has shifted, if she falls back into ranks as just another soldier behind Russell or if she asserts herself.

How is Mick not more of a coat-tail rider than her? Jaison has shown some strategy and stood up for his choices, but anytime we see Mick (like, never) he is talking with Russell or Jaison without bringing anything to the table.

[Tsavong Lah]

How is Mick not more of a coat-tail rider than her? Jaison has shown some strategy and stood up for his choices, but anytime we see Mick (like, never) he is talking with Russell or Jaison without bringing anything to the table.

Oh, I'd rate Natalie #2 out of Foa Foa. She's the only one of the non-Russell FFs to actually step out of the shadows. Jaison has shown moments, but Mick has been completely worthless. The only type of game Mick is playing is the "I'll not do ANYTHING and hope it gets me far", which is the worst, IMO.

ETA: However, prior to the merge Mick and Jaison at least talked to Russell about the decisions needing to be made. For the most part they followed him, but they talked with him when Natalie didn't. So pre-merge I probably thought they were a little higher than Natalie, but not at all anymore.

[Slurktan]

Also another interesting fact is that many people are saying Boston Rob, but totally neglecting Amber, who actually won. They've admitted they both schemed together. Amber's attachment to Rob right away was strategy (that grew to something more). Rob was the face of them, but think how that worked in Amber's favor. I don't think you can really separate the two strategically, yet no one mentions Amber. She also made it a lot farther in her season that Rob.

Is this what people would call riding coat-tails? Because I see it as someone smart enough to be in the controlling alliance while letting someone else be the walking target to shelter under.

Vecepia actually won too. Didn't mean she played better than her final two competitor it meant she had fewer people pissed off with her. The reason I discount Amber and Vecepia is simple, if the jury members didn't act like children, then Neleh and Rob would have won. There is nothing to say Amber played a better game than Rob at all, whereas there is lots to say for the contrary. (As well Amber lasted longer on her season because she was a pawn, Rob got booted because he tried to make a power play)

If you win because you played it nice and let the mad jury get revenge on your competition, well thats good you are a half million dollars richer. I don't respect it because it depends on the Jury being douchebags.

[RedEyedGhost]

Holy crap, I had no idea how much of each season I immediately purge from my memory after the final episode airs until reading the last two pages. I seriously have little to no idea of who most of the people you guys are talking about (but the memory starts jogging the more you go into them).

Like Cerie, it took two posts before I remembered the name, and then a third before I remembered anything about her.

And Amanda, I was a big fan of her ( :drool: ), and she was in back to back seasons FFS. Including rolling over in the final tribal council twice! She should be pretty memorable, right?

Yeah, it's nice to know I've still got those skills I picked up in undergrad :)

[Kat]

ETA: However, prior to the merge Mick and Jaison at least talked to Russell about the decisions needing to be made. For the most part they followed him, but they talked with him when Natalie didn't. So pre-merge I probably thought they were a little higher than Natalie, but not at all anymore.

Well, that's because Russell decided to rank his teammates by strength, even though he was tightest with Natalie. I guess he figured that he could win over his secondary friends (Jaison and Mick) more easily than he could afford to boot one of them out and keep Natalie (or Liz) while they were still in teams. A few times he would plot with Natalie re: Laura, or whoever, but I think he tried to keep her out of the visible loop just in case one of the other guys insisted that he prove his friendship by voting out the woman he was closer with, who was Natalie. I mean, that seemed to be the basic strategy Russell used in Foa Foa: Say he was manipulating the women for social reasons (to support him to the end because they were "dumb"), but treat them as expendable to save on team strength, except in the case of that one guy who no one liked after council. Meanwhile, get paranoid and invent a reason to pick one woman above another one that week.

In any case, that's why I'm not a fan of Russell's strategy. If he knew he was going to have to vote out women on his tribe because they're easier to justify voting out (because they don't perform as well at physical challenges), why did he even bother trying to mastermind an alliance of "Russell & the Dumb Blondes"? Only one of his original "dumb-ass women" is still around, so that was pointless scheming. I think he would have done better just trying to form a tighter bond with the other dudes so there would be less chance of them voting him out post-merge as a physical threat, or because they don't trust him, or whatever.

[Slurktan]

Did anyone else catch the recap? I usually don't watch these but I figured I'd check this one to see what else was going on besides Russell. Turns out Galu had some remarkably stupid competitors and that Russell is completely and utterly running Foa Foa including Natalie as per her own mouth. So basically at this point he is running the game and when he wins I can't be sure how it will be shocking in any way unless the Jury decides to be douchebags and lets a nothing win as revenge against him. Interestingly enough despite having 95% of the air time already this recap just showed even more that he is the man.

[Guest Ro_]

We were playing darts for shots - I will watch it later. Maybe. I hate recap episodes.

[awesome possum]

Yeah, I caught parts of it. Definitely take back what I said about Natalie earlier. She has good social skills that Russell has used well, but otherwise she is totally his dupe.

[The Wedge]

I hate recap episodes.

They showed tons of new footage that shed light on the game as a whole. Even though no one gets voted out, it was highly entertaining.

As much as Shambo can be socially awkward, her conversation with Dave in the jungle and breakdown moment on the beach with Laura made me glad she's still in the game. Shambo's smart enough to see that they are treating her badly and she basically threw it back in Dave's face. He's a player who thinks he's sly, but is so not sly. And Laura. Good gods that beach conversation made me glad she's gone. I don't care if you and your silicone don't like Shambo; if someone is breaking down like that at least show a shred of sympathy or humanity. I was waiting for her to tell Shambo to stop blocking her light so as not to screw up her tanning time. Good riddence to Laura!

Russell is so awesome. I've been onboard with his strategies from day one, but will his conversation with Mick about real life make a difference later on?

Jaison's spoken reaction to John after battle-ball challenge was silly. Jaison needs to leave his personal issues at home and just play the game. At least he tried to salvage the outburst by confessing that he shouldn't let his feelings be known.

And I think that Brett's first ever confessional to the camera was shown. Or is he just that forgettable?

Good episode!

[Slurktan]

Jaison's spoken reaction to John after battle-ball challenge was silly. Jaison needs to leave his personal issues at home and just play the game. At least he tried to salvage the outburst by confessing that he shouldn't let his feelings be known.

I thought that part was interesting particularly given Jaison's calling of Ben a racist only slightly earlier chronologically or perhaps even after. I hope he gets asked about it on finale night because it certainly appears that he took such offence because John was a white guy who was "cheating" and smiling about it.

[Tsavong Lah]

I normally hate recap episodes, but I loved this one. Things that stood out for me:

Russell is really adaptable. Yes, he has his strategy, but he is willing to do something different and not stick to it rigidly. I actually think that when he almost spilled the beans to the whole tribe about his wealth that it actually helped him, because it made him more intriguing. And overall he seems to be pretty decent at reading who he can trust.

Dave Ball is really freakin' stupid. That talk with Shambo in the jungle...omg. Every statement he made was like he was reading out of the book "how to say the exact wrong thing." First, he actually tells her that he isn't supposed to tell her stuff. You NEVER let a person know they are being kept out of the loop. You NEVER imply that another person is just along for the ride. And you NEVER try to smooth things over with fake statements like "You're right" and "That wasn't fair of me". That is pure transparent bullshit.

Laura is even more of a bitch than I thought. When she said "Oh well, they're better off now" was a really shitty thing to say to a woman who is breaking down about losing two siblings. It almost sounded like Laura was implying that life must have sucked for them here. And if you want to try to "bond" and show sympathy, the least you can do is fucking sit up and stop your goddamn tanning for 2 minutes. And then while someone is crying in front of you, you can say something more tactful than "where's our sunshine?".

Shambo is a lot smarter than anyone thought. Every member of Galu seems to think she is mentally handicapped or something, and that they can put her down in all sorts of ways and she won't notice. Her conversation with Monica about "fake purple" was excellent. She's 100% right, and Monica is just dumb.

Natalie's convincing of Galu to get rid of Erik was better than I remember, but she really showed herself to be a pawn tonight. Your integrity is worth more than a million dollars? Really? You're playing Survivor, not going for Miss Congeniality. What I don't understand is that she realizes Russell is playing a better game than her, and she is totally content just to be his second vote and to never step out of his shadow. You have to know that Russell isn't going to botch the final TC, he's just too smooth of an operator for that.

Mick is even more worthless than I remember. I can't imagine a more worthless leader. Of course, that helped out Russell immensely. No one felt any loyalty to Mick because of the piss-poor job he did, so that made room for Russell to take control without having the mantle of leadership dragging him down.

Overall the only thing from keeping this season from having the lowest level of gameplay ever is Russell. Gabon still takes the cake, because everyone was so bad there. Kenny was okay for about 3 episodes, and Sugar was able to make moves but had no overarching strategy, she just played by emotion. Otherwise every single person was worthless as hell on that season.

[The Wedge]

I just checked out the show's online videos of the current three jury members at the Ponderosa. The second one in particular is telling. Erik is obviously pissed that he got blindsided and wants to know how/why it happened after he did the dirty work of flushing out Russell's first idol. Laura and Kelly try to explain, but they just don't have anything adequate to tell him. They got duped and he got dumped. As fun as it was watching him get blind-sided after a cocky tribal council, Erik got shafted by his own people.

At one point he asks if they realized that it was never 8-4 Galu advantage because Shambo already tipped it to 7-5. They seemed dumbfounded that that could be the case. Not dumb Shambo! They all fell for it. Never alienate the weakest in this game. Make that weak player feel strong and involved so have their vote.

Also, Laura may seem nice in real life, but there is just something annoying about her both during the game and in the Ponderosa videos. Maybe it's superficial on my part, but fake boobs that look like skin covered curling stones just creep me out and turn me off immediately on a person. I'm shallow like that.

[Tsavong Lah]

I just checked out the show's online videos of the current three jury members at the Ponderosa. The second one in particular is telling. Erik is obviously pissed that he got blindsided and wants to know how/why it happened after he did the dirty work of flushing out Russell's first idol. Laura and Kelly try to explain, but they just don't have anything adequate to tell him. They got duped and he got dumped. As fun as it was watching him get blind-sided after a cocky tribal council, Erik got shafted by his own people.

At one point he asks if they realized that it was never 8-4 Galu advantage because Shambo already tipped it to 7-5. They seemed dumbfounded that that could be the case. Not dumb Shambo! They all fell for it. Never alienate the weakest in this game. Make that weak player feel strong and involved so have their vote.

Also, Laura may seem nice in real life, but there is just something annoying about her both during the game and in the Ponderosa videos. Maybe it's superficial on my part, but fake boobs that look like skin covered curling stones just creep me out and turn me off immediately on a person. I'm shallow like that.

Where do you get the idea that she "seems nice in real life"? It seems to me like she'd be the last person from the whole bunch I'd ever want to spend time around. I imagine she is only accepted in with other hypocritical Christians (FYI, not saying all Christians are hypocrites, but she is) that have ass-backwards views of the world.

[The Wedge]

Another semi-blindside last night. The looks on John's face as the votes were read mirrored Erik's three votes prior. Russell set him up by letting John know he had the idol and John took the bait too easily.

Jaison had a point when he and Mick were talking about potentially alienating Shambo by not going for Dave. I still think Dave is too easily led to be a threat, so that's not the issue that Jaison was getting at. He was getting at the fact that Foas would lose Shambo's confidence because she plays so emotionally. If they can keep her pissed at Dave and tell her the strategy of the move maybe they can bring her back, but at this point she's seeming pretty irrational.

Jaison and Mick's conversation on voting John or Dave, coupled with the preview for next week, showed they are ready to start playing for themselves and not following Russell like a sheep. A blindside of Russell next week? Or do they knock out Dave and then Shambo before going after Russell?

Good stuff.

[Slurktan]

Jaison had a point when he and Mick were talking about potentially alienating Shambo by not going for Dave. I still think Dave is too easily led to be a threat, so that's not the issue that Jaison was getting at. He was getting at the fact that Foas would lose Shambo's confidence because she plays so emotionally. If they can keep her pissed at Dave and tell her the strategy of the move maybe they can bring her back, but at this point she's seeming pretty irrational.

Jaison and Mick's conversation on voting John or Dave, coupled with the preview for next week, showed they are ready to start playing for themselves and not following Russell like a sheep. A blindside of Russell next week? Or do they knock out Dave and then Shambo before going after Russell?

Good stuff.

That could be one way of looking at it and it's potentially dangerous. I just don't see Shambo ever going back to the Galu people, particularly Dave. I'd have to guess though that the Foa Foa's will just turn on Shambo this week for an easy out. Dave will vote for her and once she's gone it's 4-3 and they can resume the Pagonging.

And don't ever believe what the preview shows you, particularly if it seems to set up a target. 99% of the time it is false.

[Kat]

That was a pretty pointless blindside, imho. How was John more of a threat than Dave B.? They looked like fairly equal threats, and the only reason to do that was to get rid of John since he knew Russell had the idol. But the only reason he knew Russell had it is because Russell seems to be utterly incapable of not telling people when he has an immunity idol. Good grief.

Also, whatever happened to the part promised in the preview where Russell was planning to let one of the chickens loose??

[The Wedge]

Also, whatever happened to the part promised in the preview where Russell was planning to let one of the chickens loose??

In the recap episode they showed him sneaking around in the middle of the night and unlatching the cage door, but not really opening it. Apparently the chickens didn't try to get out. That was just before he had his pitch dark out conversation with Dave Ball while wearing the hidden immunity idol around his neck.

There's a deleted scene over on the new Probst blog at EW showing Dave Ball talking strategy to the camera. I may have misunderestimated him, but only slightly.

As for John going, he pretty much deserved it for the auction deal: "Who'd like some pie?? Yeah, I don't think so, but I don't think you'll vote for me because Russell promised me a Foa Foa this week...." Rocket science!