Survivor Samoa

[Demonblade]

Probably so. I almost want to watch that season, but not if he's sleazy on top of everything, because I like it when the good people win (as is probably quite obvious by now. Ethan is still my favorite winner.)

I didn't think the accent was fake, either. Why would someone fake an accent in confessionals, when they're already telling all about every other aspect of the game?

I'm always surprised at how not only were there so many Brian haters out there but also that their hatred still persists to this day. He played the game strategically and won. I liked the guy and was glad that he won. Why is there so much hatred for him above absolute dickheads like, say, Boston Rob, Johnny Fairplay, or that crazed-whacko whose name I don't remember that made his own Blackberry?

[Guest Ro_]

My English, it fails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_Samoa

Back on Foa Foa, Russell told a completely fabricated story to the tribe that he was a fireman, a survivor of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Louisiana and that he lost his German Shepherd in the storm in order to get their sympathy

I think dats lame.

[Lord of Oop North]

I'm always surprised at how not only were there so many Brian haters out there but also that their hatred still persists to this day. He played the game strategically and won. I liked the guy and was glad that he won. Why is there so much hatred for him above absolute dickheads like, say, Boston Rob, Johnny Fairplay, or that crazed-whacko whose name I don't remember that made his own Blackberry?

I believe a lot of it has to do with some extracurricular incidents he was involved in, such as the shooting of that dog with a bow and arrow.

[Tsavong Lah]

I think Russell isn't playing the game he wanted to, but the fact that he is surviving and thriving like he is speaks a lot to his abilities. I am sure his plan was never to go into a merge at an 8-4 advantage. I think he was totally fine sloughing off players from his own tribe that he couldn't trust (meaning they didn't buy into his constructed character), but not to the extent that actually happened. Because of their total ineptitude at challenges (rivaled only by Fang in Gabon and whatever the tribe Stephenie was on was called in the season Tom won) I think his game would be different right now, more like how he intended to play it. For those really knocking his social game, I'd just point out the fact that before the merge he never had a vote cast against him. Sure, there were people who didn't trust him, but never to the extent to vote him out, and he always got them first. Part of that is because they were dumb enough to tell him they didn't trust him, but I believe he started out intending to seem not very bright and they hoped that confronting him like they did (Marisa, Betsy, and Liz being whom I'm talking about) that they could accrue more power to themselves. They each underestimated Russell, and I think that is partly his doing.

Post merge he had two pieces of leverage over the game. First, he had the Foa Foas as a block that would do what he wanted. Secondly, he had a hidden immunity idol. He needed to leverage one or both of them immediately as Foa Foa losing even one member would make it exponentially harder for him to continue far into the game. I think he played the HII card a little too heavy-handed, but he needed to see if he could use it to leverage votes. Ultimately he got kind of lucky with Galu turning on Erik, but had he just sat on the HII it would have been a mistake. Unfortunately for him, the situation in Aiga has exposed him in his attempts to stay alive in the game for what he is.

No, he isn't the greatest player ever. But I'd definitely say he deserves consideration for at least the top 10. Actually, it would be interesting to see who everyone believes to be the top players of all time.

I skipped many of the middle seasons, but I think any discussion needs to include:

Richard Hatch

Rob C

Boston Rob

Yul

Todd

Parvati

Cirie

Russell

Jonny Fairplay

I didn't include some of the social players that didn't do much else (I have little respect for Tina Wesson, and really that whole season, from a strategic standpoint), but I'd be interested to see how other people rate social players compared to the strategists.

[Demonblade]

I believe a lot of it has to do with some extracurricular incidents he was involved in, such as the shooting of that dog with a bow and arrow.

I didn't know about that and since it had nothing to do with the way he played the game, it's irrelevant, IMO. But killing dogs with bows and arrows is a pretty asshole thing to do, that's for damn sho.

[Slurktan]

No, he isn't the greatest player ever. But I'd definitely say he deserves consideration for at least the top 10. Actually, it would be interesting to see who everyone believes to be the top players of all time.

I skipped a couple of the later ones entirely and a couple others partially but in more chronological order my ten would be....

Hatch

Boston Rob

Brian

Waffling on Rob C but I'll put him here just because... but he got so utterly played in the All Stars season.

Fairplay

Cirie

Yul

Pavarti

Stephen until the end

Russell

For the most part I'm actually pretty happy with most of the winners as they usually have had played the better game then their final 2/3 opponents with exceptions like say... the Professor from Gilligan's Island guy, Amber on all-stars or that woman whose name I can't remember because she was a nothing that got gifted because they all didn't like Stephanie. While being a good person is nice and all its Survivor not "Who can be the goodest and nicest" show.

[awesome possum]

I didn't know about that and since it had nothing to do with the way he played the game, it's irrelevant, IMO. But killing dogs with bows and arrows is a pretty asshole thing to do, that's for damn sho.

No doubt. He was a brilliant strategist and one of the best players to play the game, but his being a bit of a giant creepy douche bag partly negates it.

[awesome possum]

I don't think Fairplay has much of a leg to stand in a top ten list. He made one classic asshole move, but really got outplayed for the most part.

My 10:

1) Boston Rob - the guy went into All Stars with everyone knowing he was a scheming, conniving, lying shit and still dominated the game.

2) Hatch - he played a perfect game in the first season, when maybe one or two people had any idea of how to play the game. I honestly don't think he'd have done as well in any other season, but still, he showed everyone how the game was played.

3) Russell - it's still early, but I believe by the end of next season quite a few people will agree he belongs up near the top.

4) Chris - he was the last man standing against a six-woman alliance in a season based on men vs. women, and managed to win it all.

5) Rob C. - he did get completely outplayed in All Stars, but managed an excellent game his first time around.

6) Yul - excellent strategist who knew exactly what it took to win and did it.

7) Todd - a "student of the game" who managed to dominate the game rather than look clueless when actually put in like some other fans.

8) Colby - one of the most dominating players to date, who made only one HUGE mistake in the game, and it cost him $900,000.

9) Brian - being a sleaze ball of a human takes him down a few notches, but he played perhaps a perfect game.

10) Ethan - Africa was a weak season, but Ethan had control the entire time and was perfectly trustworthy doing it.

Notable mentions:

Jonathan, Stephen, Amanda, Cirie.

[Tsavong Lah]

I don't think Fairplay has much of a leg to stand in a top ten list. He made one classic asshole move, but really got outplayed for the most part.

My 10:

1) Boston Rob - the guy went into All Stars with everyone knowing he was a scheming, conniving, lying shit and still dominated the game.

2) Hatch - he played a perfect game in the first season, when maybe one or two people had any idea of how to play the game. I honestly don't think he'd have done as well in any other season, but still, he showed everyone how the game was played.

3) Russell - it's still early, but I believe by the end of next season quite a few people will agree he belongs up near the top.

4) Chris - he was the last man standing against a six-woman alliance in a season based on men vs. women, and managed to win it all.

5) Rob C. - he did get completely outplayed in All Stars, but managed an excellent game his first time around.

6) Yul - excellent strategist who knew exactly what it took to win and did it.

7) Todd - a "student of the game" who managed to dominate the game rather than look clueless when actually put in like some other fans.

8) Colby - one of the most dominating players to date, who made only one HUGE mistake in the game, and it cost him $900,000.

9) Brian - being a sleaze ball of a human takes him down a few notches, but he played perhaps a perfect game.

10) Ethan - Africa was a weak season, but Ethan had control the entire time and was perfectly trustworthy doing it.

Notable mentions:

Jonathan, Stephen, Amanda, Cirie.

Do you think there's a problem that your top 10 doesn't include a woman? I only had a pair on mine, and felt that it was probably because I discounted social game in favor of strategy. Amanda probably deserves consideration. I missed the season with Danni, but I think I heard good things about her.

[Young Wolf]

According to some spoilers my other half was telling me about, the rest of the game is rather boring now that Russell's camp has the numbers and are in control.

I think if we were ranking douchebags in the game, Fairplay would be up there. If we were ranking best players, Fairplay would be left off that list.

[awesome possum]

Do you think there's a problem that your top 10 doesn't include a woman? I only had a pair on mine, and felt that it was probably because I discounted social game in favor of strategy. Amanda probably deserves consideration. I missed the season with Danni, but I think I heard good things about her.

I had a hard time not adding Amanda in there. If she wasn't so absolutely horrific at her two final tribals, she would definitely be up high on the list. The fact that she made it to two final tribal councils speaks volumes.

And I guess Parvati does deserve a bit of credit, but I just dislike her so much and her type of game play that I can't add her. The thing about Danni is that I think (my memory of this is dim) she just lucked out to make it as far as she did and then played a decent game toward the end that was boosted by Stefanie.

Kelly from the first season deserves credit as well for having been possibly the most physical female competitor. If Natalie makes it to the end and wins, I believe she deserves a place on the list because she's been playing the game in a much more subtle and - in my opinion - better way than Russell, who has been coasting on an incredible amount of luck.

Like you, I discounted the social aspect. Too many females who have made it far in the game have done so by riding the coat tails of stronger players and then turning on them toward the end. That's smart, sure, as most of the female winners wouldn't have had a chance against some of the guys who led them to the end, but I don't think they deserve to be called a great player because of it.

[Ser Paladin]

Earl didn't have the toughest competition (Dreamz? the "four horsemen"? no), outside of Yao-man, but he thoroughly dominated his season, and aside from a knife in Yao's back to keep the old man out of the vote, he was completely ethical all the way

Only one vote cast against him the whole season, never won individual immunity, and won final tribal unanimously. That's a pretty complete game.

[Sis Who Swears]

I think if we were ranking douchebags in the game, Fairplay would be up there. If we were ranking best players, Fairplay would be left off that list.

+1

And he is STILL just as much of a douche bag even when he's not playing the game anymore. I've seen him on a few different things since and he is just horrible. There should be picture of him in the urban dictionary beside the word douche. GAWD how I despise that man loser! :tantrum:

[Tears of Lys]

Fairplay is a douche, true, but he's too pathetic to hate.

[Gertrude]

Like you, I discounted the social aspect. Too many females who have made it far in the game have done so by riding the coat tails of stronger players and then turning on them toward the end. That's smart, sure, as most of the female winners wouldn't have had a chance against some of the guys who led them to the end, but I don't think they deserve to be called a great player because of it.

Why do you discount the social game? The social part is not just getting people to like you, but inspiring trust in allies, having the instincts in knowing how to approach people, having a good read on them, etc. I know people will probably call a lot of this 'strategy', but it's more of a social strategy than the pure numbers and physical type of strategy.

I'd be interested in knowing which females you think rode male coat-tails to the end and why no one accuses men of riding coat-tails. I think women in general play a very different game than men. Overall, they are not going to be the challenge threats or providers that inspire trust and dependence in people. It always blows my mind how many people equate physical/visible game with good game.

My choices for great games by women would include Tina Wesson. She was calling the shots, end of story. She was the one who talked to the last two (whoever were on the other tribe) and had them chose who to go next, and like her for it. She swam a swollen river and rescued the rice while the men looked on. I don't get how people dismiss her so easily.

I think Kathy from season 4 is awesome as well. She began at the absolute bottom, had no clue what she was doing an was slated to be one of the first ones gone. After a bit of luck, she was able to survive, flip Neleah and Pappy to her advantage and became the one to beat and was voted out at three because of it. She had a very steep learning curve and made a complete turn around - that deserves some credit in my mind.

I think Sandra also did well in her season. Her strategy was 'anyone but me' and it worked for her. She was able to turn people to her side who were against her in nearly every vote running up to the final. She hustled for it and didn't sit back and let it happen.

Cirie was awesome - she had her fingers on the pulse of this game like few ever have. She didn't win, but that doesn't make her skills any less in my eyes. Her flaw was that she couldn't hide how awesome she was (same with Yao-Man Rob C. and others who were deemed 'too hard to beat') It's a flaw in game play to be the odds on favorite, but few have figured out just that right balance of being the favorite, but still making it to the finals (See J.T for example)

Amanda I can't really give as much credit to. Just because she made it to 2 finals doesn't really work for me. She did fine, but got lucky in her alliances more than anything. The fact that she couldn't even come close to closing the deal either time makes her plummet in my eyes. Her All-Star stint was also filmed right after her regular season so no one knew anything about her - easy to get further in that situation.

And by the way - I really don't like All-Stars games and pretty much don't count them in evaluating players' skills.

Fairplay is a douche, true, but he's too pathetic to hate.

This is so true. He's a sad, sad man.

[Mya Stone]

I'd be interested in knowing which females you think rode male coat-tails to the end and why no one accuses men of riding coat-tails. I think women in general play a very different game than men. Overall, they are not going to be the challenge threats or providers that inspire trust and dependence in people. It always blows my mind how many people equate physical/visible game with good game.

Honestly, before this last episode (when she actually held her own), I'd say Natalie has totally ridden Russell's coattails this season thus far. I would have never given her a second look if she hadn't teamed up with Russell. I don't think she's really made one move that's been something she's called.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, Laura from Galu was completely calling all the shots, but look where that got her.

It will be interesting to see if Natalie makes it to the end, and if her coat-riding would count for her or against her.

[Gertrude]

Also another interesting fact is that many people are saying Boston Rob, but totally neglecting Amber, who actually won. They've admitted they both schemed together. Amber's attachment to Rob right away was strategy (that grew to something more). Rob was the face of them, but think how that worked in Amber's favor. I don't think you can really separate the two strategically, yet no one mentions Amber. She also made it a lot farther in her season that Rob.

Is this what people would call riding coat-tails? Because I see it as someone smart enough to be in the controlling alliance while letting someone else be the walking target to shelter under.

[Gertrude]

Honestly, before this last episode (when she actually held her own), I'd say Natalie has totally ridden Russell's coattails this season thus far. I would have never given her a second look if she hadn't teamed up with Russell. I don't think she's really made one move that's been something she's called.

Natalie hasn't done much remarkable, but it has been the Russell show - who else have we seen from that tribe until recently? We have seen Nat bonding with Laura when she was in their camp - a move of which Russell completely agreed with. She didn't do it because Russell prompted her to. A move which saved her ass by the way - compare her actions to Liz who got booted the next TC.

Because she was in with Laura, she was in with the rest of the Galu women and we see her whispering and scheming with them to oust Erik. I can't remember who initiated that move, but she was right in the thick of it. And she killed a rat. I'll admit, the bikini blonde with the bubbly voice and personality and not much going on upstairs is not usually going to make my favorite players' list. However, her killing that rat was completely adorable and completely outside her comfort zone, but she did what needed doing. That got my respect. That and she's a tough competitor without being a threat.

So while I don't think she's a heavy hitter, I do think she is working the game with what she's got so I don't see her as a coat-tail rider. She is contributing plenty in her own way. Enough to make it to the top of any lists? No. Enough to earn some respect? I think so.

I also have to disagree that calling the shots is the definitive strategy/domination card. If someone is calling the shots, and it is going in your direction, why rock the boat? Being flexible and fluid is just as important in my eyes. The best strategists have elements of both.

[Kat]

Also another interesting fact is that many people are saying Boston Rob, but totally neglecting Amber, who actually won. They've admitted they both schemed together. Amber's attachment to Rob right away was strategy (that grew to something more). Rob was the face of them, but think how that worked in Amber's favor. I don't think you can really separate the two strategically, yet no one mentions Amber. She also made it a lot farther in her season that Rob.

Is this what people would call riding coat-tails? Because I see it as someone smart enough to be in the controlling alliance while letting someone else be the walking target to shelter under.

See, this is how I saw the alliance between Amanda and Todd in China. Amanda did as much scheming and vote-rounding-up as Todd did, but at the end, she totally blew her speech and failed to take credit for her part of the alliance. I thought she was a very good player until the speech at the end.

Then she made the same mistake in the All-Star edition, which sucked, because I wanted her to win that season.

[Guest Ro_]

I have strongly suspected that Rob and Amber decided who would be the one to win. That he would be the target, the shield for Amber. I don't know if I remember her really doing shit.