Anyone else feel sorry for Lysa Arryn?

[Glow]

There have been some court decisions but they are not uniform yet, it's to consider that breastfeed used as a comfort activity could impair the infant ability to deal with frustration. Whatever we might say or want a child is a different person than the mother and should develop his own means of dealing with frustration or negative feelings (with children have, wether people want to accept those or not).

Is not the only breastfeeding, but the fact that SweetRobin was not nearly as independent as he should have been at that age. Go to the cultural background we have: that age boys in the world we know go to school and play outside with friends (and unravel their mothers frequently); there boys that age started to prepare to become knights or rule their lands, learnt to read, have a myriad of activities beyond playing (I wonder if they aged SweetRobin too or if he will still be breastfeeding, in the series). In the book the boy is almost crippled to a point that made me think the boy wasn't as fragile as we are lead to think but just unable to grow due to his relationship with his mother (is a twisted relationship, from where I see it).

While breastfeeding women are not fertile, that could add another cause for Lysa not having other children.

There are other issues though, even if the breastfeeding could be taken as a minority practice but an acceptable one then you have the flying game, and that is not a small thing.

Miang the document about breastfeeding the AAP produced concentrates on the notion of extended breastfeeding being 3/4 years long, this as long as when the baby turns six month old the mother starts introducing other foods to the diet, otherwise the child won't be healthy because of missing minerals, vitamins and other important nutrients.

In this case is not the breastfeeding alone, but the whole means of educating her son, means which for me are terrible :)

I'm not saying that anyone should pity Lysa, I'm just saying her fly to the moon was a top moment of the book for me and that I don't pity her at all.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

In order to definitively, scientifically determine there is psychological harm to breastfeeding a child past three years old it would have to be studied. Do you see a lot of people lining up to participate in that study? They've studied the effects of breastfeeding up to the three year mark to determine benefits as well as negative side effects, but somehow I'm doubtful anyone has studied it up to the six year mark.

*sigh* I didn't bring up age of breastfeeding before because I know this would come up.

I think people are confounding the biological and cultural here.

If one were simply to look at the biological realities of breastfeeding, it is clear that our closest relatives breastfeed to a much later biological state of development than we tend to. We barely make it out of infant whereas other mammals are nearly adolescent before they are completely weaned.

Also, the more a culture is a traditional hunter-gatherer society, the longer breastfeeding persists.

It seems that in the development of societies that include suitable non-breastmilk food for infants (cow's and goat's milk, easily digestable grains such as rice), breastfeeding times began to get shorter and shorter. This probably is because most people find it disturbing to have a child that talks to them while drinking from their breasts, and we find the idea of our kids remembering breastfeeding on us to be creepy. I know I would. :stunned:

But... I think this is actually totally cultural and that kids who DO remember breastfeeding from their moms probably don't think of it as weird unless it's pointed out to them as being abnormal. I don't think breastfeeding your kid - EVEN to 6 years old - is fundamentally abusive. It is culturally abnormal and therefore seems abhorrent to us. I don't think it is as "fundamentally obvious" as "fire is hot don't touch it".

OK but Lysa still taught her kid all sorts of horrible stuff (like killing is OK), didn't let him play or run around, and so on. So she certainly emotionally abused him and was an awful mom. People put so much into this breastfeeding stuff as "evidence" that Lysa is beyond any sort of sympathy while it's certainly far from the worst thing she did, even if it offends our modern sensibilities in that it is "gross".

-----------------------------

Anyway! Lysa is a terrible, cowardly, weak, and cruel person! But is still worthy of pity because she had a horrible life!! The end?!?! :bang:

[Glow]

Anyway! Lysa is a terrible, cowardly, weak, and cruel person! But is still worthy of pity because she had a horrible life!! The end?!?! :bang:

Obviously you can, everyone has a different sensibility. The fact that not everyone feels sorry for her does not mean some might find it in their hearts to actually pity her, why should it?

[Kaitscralt]

I don't know why people pity her based on her childhood years. She was born into a wealthy family and was much better off than many characters in the series. I could start listing said characters but everybody here already knows them. Yes the betrothal to a sixty year old man was nothing to write home about (suicide notes not withstanding) but I don't really pity her over it, not after the type of person she grew into.

[Snow's Ghost]

Unfortunately, I do not feel any sympathy or pity for Lysa Arryn and believe she was a victim of her own foolishness. Catelyn is certainly the more intelligent and courageous of the two sisters. Martin has designed and created women of all realms "female," who are purposed to fulfill unique, yet specific roles - all of whom represent the multiple facets of what a woman is. For example, Cersei Lannister and Brienne of Tarth are women who symbolize the fierce strength, determination, and independence with which some women are born - sometimes to their own detriment; Sansa and Lysa are examples of women who "play the part" of what romantically defines femininity - women who often succumb to social expectations; and finally, Daenerys Targaryen and Arya Stark are paragons who epitomize women's uncanny ability to quickly acclimate to any environment and fight with every fiber of their beings to determine their own fates. As cold as it may seem, I was glad when Lysa was sent plummeting to her death. Perhaps the box that Catelyn received at the beginning of GOT, which contained the secret letter stating that the Lannisters had killed Jon Arryn, was not, in fact, from Lysa, despite the authentic seal - remember, Hamlet had his father's signet - perhaps there is something more to this occurrence which was a catalyst for many more mysteries... I second the above statement - Lysa was weak; I feel she served her purpose and had to go...out the "window." Maybe now her pathetic excuse for a son will have a chance...

[iamthedave]

Heh heh heh. Let's think of the common folk, shall we? Oh the poor little lord's daughter with her fine food and silks and games of marriages :)

As for why people like Littlefinger but not Lysa? Littlefinger's competent.

It's as easy as that. In fact, he's brilliant at what he does. If someone is good at what they do, they will earn people's respect, and once you've earned someone's respect it's only a small jump to actually liking them or, in the case of Littlefinger, at least looking forward to seeing what he's up to.

If Lysa wasn't such a petty, tiny-minded wretch, and had Littlefinger's poise and cunning, I guaran-damn-tee she'd have a lot of fans.

[Haven19]

"Anyone else feel sorry for her?"

No... I just hate her. I laughed so hard when Petyr made her fly. Crazy B*tch that she was. Excuse my French but what part of "Family. Duty. Honor" did she not comprehend while growing up in the Tully house?

[Lee-Sensei]

"Anyone else feel sorry for her?"

No... I just hate her. I laughed so hard when Petyr made her fly. Crazy B*tch that she was. Excuse my French but what part of "Family. Duty. Honor" did she not comprehend while growing up in the Tully house?

She did. She understood that Robert Arryn was her family and honored the Valemen by doing her duty and keeping them out of a silly war that had nothing to do with thm.

[Haven19]

Well, alright Lee, if you say so.. That's just my 2 cents. She wasn't a bad mother but she was a bad sister to Cat, aunt to Sansa & Rob, Neice to Black Fish, brother to Edmure, daughter to Hoster, etc, etc.

[Lee-Sensei]

Well, alright Lee, if you say so.. That's just my 2 cents. She wasn't a bad mother but she was a bad sister to Cat, aunt to Sansa & Rob, Neice to Black Fish, brother to Edmure, daughter to Hoster, etc, etc.

I'd say she was a bad mother and I don't know why you're mentioning Hoster. Hoster was a bad father to her. Either way, her position as a mother comes before anything else. During the Red Wedding Cat was all about Robb. Did she ever wonder where Edmure was? Was she looking to protect him? No. And I don't think anyone would blame her. Likewise, one could say that Cat, Edmure, Blackfish and Robb were bad family for trying to drag her into their stupid succession war.

[Rhaenys' kitten]

I feel sorry for how Hoster treated her, and how Petyr used and betrayed her, but I still think she's a batshit crazy villainess.

[Haven19]

Lee, Are you just choosing to be objective here? Lysa got played by Little Finger (whose just as guilty as she is). Difference is, it wasn't his family. With the power of the Vale, the North would've won that war (not that it even matters anymore, it's old news). And I brought up Hoster because Lysa didn't even care about him when he was dying. It's one thing to not want to travel through dangerous territory to see him but she ignored the letters and refused to even write him. Now look at vice versa, did Hoster not care about Lysa? If that were true, I'd doubt he'd constantly mumble how sorry he was in his death bed. He did what he thought was right. What he did to Lysa was not fair, what she did back was not fair either.

How can you say she wasn't a bad family member to all the members of her family that she did wrong but then say she was a bad mother to her son when he was the only one she actually didn't do wrong? he was the only one she even cared about. She babied him, yes, but she loved him and only thought to protect him.

[Haven19]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you here.

[Lord Damian]

Lysa screwed up as a girl when she crawled into Littlefinger's bed but I bet she was not the first highborn girl to get the moon tea or in her case "tansy tea" treatment to avoid a family scandal. No, I cannot say I feel sorry for her at all, in fact I feel sorry for every person she has had a relationship with except Littlefinger himself. Honestly, the lives of so many people in Westeros would have been better if Lysa Tulley Arryn had never been born.

[Lee-Sensei]

Lee, Are you just choosing to be objective here? Lysa got played by Little Finger (whose just as guilty as she is). Difference is, it wasn't his family. With the power of the Vale, the North would've won that war (not that it even matters anymore, it's old news). And I brought up Hoster because Lysa didn't even care about him when he was dying. It's one thing to not want to travel through dangerous territory to see him but she ignored the letters and refused to even write him. Now look at vice versa, did Hoster not care about Lysa? If that were true, I'd doubt he'd constantly mumble how sorry he was in his death bed. He did what he thought was right. What he did to Lysa was not fair, what she did back was not fair either.

How can you say she wasn't a bad family member to all the members of her family that she did wrong but then say she was a bad mother to her son when he was the only one she actually didn't do wrong? he was the only one she even cared about. She babied him, yes, but she loved him and only thought to protect him.

I'm not sure why that matters. If Robb couldn't win his own wars he should have stayed home. He shouldn't just go to war, declare himself King and then beg his aunt to bail him out and win the war for him once he's screwed it all up.

Lysa has no reason to care that he was dying. He aborted her baby and is likely the cause of all of her stillbirths, miscarriages and SR's poor health. The guy had it coming and it takes a real hater to not see why she was justified in not seeing him.

She was a bad mother because she didn't prepare him for the responsibilities of a Lord, however she did care about him and was right to not jeapordize her kid so Robb could be a King. I never said she wasn't a bad sister, niece and aunt by the way.

[Haven19]

Firstly, How am I a hater? Second, If Robb can't win his own wars? Lee, Ned was John Arryn's companion and Lysa Arryns brother in law. What are you even talking about? Lol.. Every single person in the Vale wanted in on that war EXCEPT Lysa herself. You act as though this war had no connection to the Vale, maytbe not technically but that's what Allies do. They defend each other. This is the whole virtue of having family as allies, this is why Hoster Tully brokered a marriage with the North and Vale, so he'd know his daughters would be safe and well defended if need be. And in every previous war in Westeros, a fight may break out between only 2 of the 9 regions but very rarely does it stay that way. There's a reason for that. The North army might've had less soldiers and gold than the Lannisters but their cause was just. And it was plain to see that they were indeed allies with the Vale. Now let's go back to your previous post; she "Honored the Valeman by doing her duty and keeping them out of a silly war that had nothing to do with them." I don't even know how to answer this. Truly I don't. Now I was going to ignore this silly post of yours out of admiration for you Sansa picture, which was why I said "well alright Lee, if you say so" but then you had to go and criticize mine so there you have it.

[Lee-Sensei]

Firstly, How am I a hater? Second, If Robb can't win his own wars? Lee, Ned was John Arryn's companion and Lysa Arryns brother in law. What are you even talking about? Lol.. Every single person in the Vale wanted in on that war EXCEPT Lysa herself. You act as though this war had no connection to the Vale, maytbe not technically but that's what Allies do. They defend each other. This is the whole virtue of having family as allies, this is why Hoster Tully brokered a marriage with the North and Vale, so he'd know his daughters would be safe and well defended if need be. And in every previous war in Westeros, a fight may break out between only 2 of the 9 regions but very rarely does it stay that way. There's a reason for that. The North army might've had less soldiers and gold than the Lannisters but their cause was just. And it was plain to see that they were indeed allies with the Vale. Now let's go back to your previous post; she "Honored the Valeman by doing her duty and keeping them out of a silly war that had nothing to do with them." I don't even know how to answer this. Truly I don't. Now I was going to ignore this silly post of yours out of admiration for you Sansa picture, which was why I said "well alright Lee, if you say so" but then you had to go and criticize mine so there you have it.

1) I When did I call you a hater.

2) Jon was also friends with Robert and Stannis. Heck, considering he named his only son after Robert he was probably closer to Robert than the rest of them.

3) That's a myth. The common folks probably didn't want to enter the war and the nobles were split.

4) Marriage alliances are dependent on you having a good relationship with your family. Hoster didn't have a good relationship with his daughter ergo when he need her, she left him to fry. That's on him.

5) He forced a marriage on Jon Arryn, someone old enough to be her grandfather to strengthen his political position after damaging her reproductive organs with abortive drugs.

6) You responded and my post isn't silly. Robb should win his own wars or stay home.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

"Anyone else feel sorry for her?"

No... I just hate her. I laughed so hard when Petyr made her fly. Crazy B*tch that she was. Excuse my French but what part of "Family. Duty. Honor" did she not comprehend while growing up in the Tully house?

There was never mentioned that she should put her nephew over her son. But if she didn't cared about her family I guess that it was Hoster who taught her that "Family" doesn't matter.

Yes I feel sorry for her. Everyone in her family thought that it was ok to use her whenever they wanted but when she decided to do something for her son she was a monster. :bang:

[Lion of the West]

I feel very sorry for her. One of the most tragic figures in Westeros. :(

[Haven19]

Oh, thought you called me a hater. Lol sorry