How much do you really hold it against Americans that only speak English?

[Jaerv]

I have a hard time imagining what northern German cuisine is like

They wash down stinking fish with bad tea,

and then they wonder why they constantly have such a bad mood... ;)

[Iskaral Pust]

To the original question - I think it's Euro snobbery to look down on Americans for being monolingual. Retaining secondary languages requires frequent reinforcement. The vast majority of the US lacks the lingual exposure necessary to sustain secondary languages. Even second generation immigrants find it difficult, despite speaking the hereditary language at home with their parents.

I know my neurons that can understand German and Irish have long since been relegated to stragglers outside the herd. The cognitive sick and lame as it were.

Eurocentric multi-lingualism is a function of geographic environment, rather than innate superiority.

Americans do deserve some criticism for the all-too-common unwillingness to even attempt foreign languages when they do travel, although lingual and cultural isolationsism might become somewhat self-perpetuating in their mindset. But I still cringe when I see Americans using repitition and volume as a substitute for a phrase-book. I would always make the effort to learn a few simple phrases before traveling abroad.

I'm personally embarrassed that I've not yet learned Spanish since moving here, which is clearly the second language of the US. It's especially bad when you think of the elitist connotations (lacking exposure to other socio-economic groups; GOP anti-immigration rhetoric, etc). The fact is I play soccer with quite a few Latin-American guys, but I've never really had the opportunity or need to pick up much Spanish.

[DJDonegal]

The one thing I currently regret in my life is my inability to speak another language well.

I learned German at school, but my heart was never in it. I can do the necessary basics in Spanish like order a beer, direct a taxi home etc. and I've picked up smatterings of Dutch and Japanese, which is fast disappearing through disuse.

But I want to learn a new language in the New Year. Probably going to be Spanish.

[Guest Ro_]

Chataya, I agree and don't agree. Even in the most rural of middle of nowhere, there is television. (I will completely and totally disregard any rural or nonrural religious freaks who do not watch television) All television is done with US generic accents, unless there is mockery to be done. Even local news broadcasts have a more generic and understandable accent.

Anyone who has watched Sesame Street has at least been exposed to proper understandable English.

*aside

When I lived in the south, the fixin to thing hit me as utterly stupid and I didn't think anything would top it, but now there is something. BURN your lights? What The Fuck Is That?

[Mlle. Zabzie]

3. Many people can subtly and unconsciously switch dialect when talking to friends/relatives in more remote areas (Darling reverts to North Carolina Hillbilly when talking to some of his relatives on the phone), but they really will use their best language when talking to strangers. This usually not a conscious switch, it's just because they are talking to people who are talking that way.

I do this all the time. I will come back from the holidays with my Southern accent in full force - it will take a couple of days for it to reassimilate to NYC.

I will fully admit that when I'm talking to a client that I know is from the South, I let the accent (and the idiom)out to play, and I know that I'm doing it. (I'll also do it unconsciously when talking to our London office, apparently). I never thought of it as particularly snobby. Furthermore, though my accent is fairly neutral, some of the idiom is always there (e.g., I do say, without thinking, that "it's fixing to rain/storm," but don't use "fixing" for going in most other circumstances)

[Errant Bard]

To the original question - I think it's Euro snobbery to look down on Americans for being monolingual. Retaining secondary languages requires frequent reinforcement. The vast majority of the US lacks the lingual exposure necessary to sustain secondary languages.

So does the majority of Europe. It's somewhat of a myth that the vulgum pecus is exposed (significantly enough) to any other language than his own if he doesn't actively look for it. Then again, we're not talking about the majority, we're talking about those who travel abroad, aren't we?

[Guest Ro_]

*shrug*

I will make a full post later, but this is why I laugh. Here, in the heart of Midwest Whiteville USA, my doctor office offers interpreters for 22, that is TWENTY TWO, languages. And they are all needed. Expecting to never need to communicate with someone who doesn't share your native language, even if you never leave your state, is simply ignorant and lazy.

[Iskaral Pust]

So does the majority of Europe. It's somewhat of a myth that the vulgum pecus is exposed (significantly enough) to any other language than his own if he doesn't actively look for it. Then again, we're not talking about the majority, we're talking about those who travel abroad, aren't we?

Hasn't RyanAir and their ilk changed all of that? All of my family and friends in Dublin routinely travel to the continent for cheap get-aways (say 6+ times a year), and even more so for my friends in London. Everyone has or knows someone with an apartment in Barcelona/Vienna/Prague/Croation Riviera/etc and the flights cost almost nothing.

[Kouran]

When I was in Germany I used what little German I knew. It seemed to work well enough and almost everyone I met spoke passable to very good english. I never could read German worth a crap though. I just dont understand the language structure well enough I guess. Even though I can reason out what most things mean well enough.

As to the dialect thing here in the states. I try and avoid to much usage of the local idom, though I do use "I reckon so" way to much, or when asked how I am "fair to Middlin."

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Zabzy,

Where are you from?

Chataya,

I have noticed my accent becomes much more pronouced when I'm around friends with stronger accents.

[S John]

Jaerv,

Laura and I work dilegently to moderate our Childrens' "Southern" accent. To those who have met me I certainly hope my accent wasn't so strong that it made me difficult to understand.

Scot, I think you'll get the results you want. One of my best friends is college was born and raised in eastern Tennessee and he spoke with a neutral American accent. He actually was very well spoken, annunciated very clearly and all that. I didn't think anything of it until one weekend he had three of his friends from home stay with us in our apartment. Holy shit, those guys all had thick southern accents. He had grown up with them, but did not talk anything like them. I even asked one of his friends about it, and was told that Bobby's parents had always made him 'talk proper'. :P

As to the dialect thing here in the states. I try and avoid to much usage of the local idom, though I do use "I reckon so" way to much, or when asked how I am "fair to Middlin."

I say reckon all the time. I didn't realize that was a regionalism.

The burn headlights thing reminded me. I have noticed that in some parts of the country you turn off a light or an engine and in some places you cut off a light or an engine. I could imagine some confusion with the latter. How the fuck do I cut off a light? I don't even have a knife on me!

Another one that I've heard (also in North Carolina, actually) is someone using 'mash' when most people would say 'push' or 'press'. Someone told me to 'mash' a button on a calculator and I didn't know wtf they were talking about. I would say that I mashed my finger if I caught it in a door or hit it with a hammer, but I wouldn't mash a button.

[jurble]

I've only heard honest to god dang hillbilly speak once in my life, and I was entranced, it was being spoken by a guy missing a few teeth, who was probably in his 30's but looked 70, and sounded just like Deliverance. His son was with him, and kid looked normal though, regular clothes, and everything.

[Eponine]

*shrug*

I will make a full post later, but this is why I laugh. Here, in the heart of Midwest Whiteville USA, my doctor office offers interpreters for 22, that is TWENTY TWO, languages. And they are all needed. Expecting to never need to communicate with someone who doesn't share your native language, even if you never leave your state, is simply ignorant and lazy.

But OTOH, would you reasonably expect your doctor to know twenty-two different languages? If you have that great a diversity in linguistic interactions, knowing two languages isn't really that much more helpful than knowing one. If one is not expecting to be a frequent interacter with one particular language, it's probably more practical to learn a few polite phrases in several languages than trying to become fluent in one.

[Adz of CCAA]

Oh, I forgot to address that. Mostly because I have a hard time associating various foods with specific regions except for some very basic stuff. I.e. Spätzle are from the southwest, fish and seafood are traditional dishes in the coastal areas etc. But are pancakes, potato pancakes or home fries representative of any particular region?

Oh, of course Himmel un Ääd is from the Rhine valley. And it is delicious.

And yes, German cuisine is very fond of potatoes, they are much more important than sauerkraut or sausages.

Himmel un Ääd. :drool:

Potato pancakes (Rievkooche) are somewhat traditional in the Rhinevalley, too. At least if you eat them on Schwazzbrut with Rövekruck. :D

I think there is no really bad German food.

OT:

I don't hold it against someone if he/she doesn't speak my language, or if they only speak English.

I always am happy, though, if they at least try to speak a little, as many others said before me.

As for myself. I had English as first foreign language for 9 years (from age 10) and French as second foreign language for 6 years(from age 12). Didn't really start reading books in English until 9 years after school because a book I wanted wasn't out in the translated edition. I did use French not at all after school and have forgotten almost everything. I'm embarrassed about not being able to even order a drink in French, not to speak about understanding spoken French. The one thing I managed was to talk to a shop lady in Southern France in catchwords about loosing weight and not haveing lipposuction done. I was amazed what I could dug out of the back parts of my brain. But that was about it.

What my written English is like everyone can see here. I can read most anything in English, and understand what I read. I really don't know about my spoken English. I don't have much opportunity to speak English and am shy doing so (as someone alse said before). I always get a knot in my tongue over the "s" and "th" sounds. I'm likely to say thomesing instead of something. ;)

I'm not sure about following a conversation. I guess with more than 3 people it would be difficult for me.

I also have a problem understanding non-native speakers talking English. :blushing:

But I was quite surprised and a little proud of myself for understanding a quite drunk british couple during the World Cup 2006. IIRC they were from Manchester.

I think it's only polite to learn some words of the language of the country you are travelling to. I think living in Europe helps you there as you are likely to spend your vacation abroad at some time and there get to know some few words of the languages.

I know that even as a kid I could count to ten in Italian and say Hello, good evening and good night when we spent our vacations there.

[Adz of CCAA]

3. Many people can subtly and unconsciously switch dialect when talking to friends/relatives in more remote areas (Darling reverts to North Carolina Hillbilly when talking to some of his relatives on the phone), but they really will use their best language when talking to strangers. This usually not a conscious switch, it's just because they are talking to people who are talking that way.

I have noticed my accent becomes much more pronouced when I'm around friends with stronger accents.

I do that, too, in German/Rheinisch/Kölsch.

I speak almost completely different when talking to my parents, people using our local dialect or people at work. It's not conscious, I just do it. Depends on the way someone is talking to me. I don't use the local dialect on a regular basis, but understand it effortlessly.

It's been said that I don't have a strong accent but you can hear by certain words and the grammar I use that I'm from the Rhineland.

Scot, I think you'll get the results you want. One of my best friends is college was born and raised in eastern Tennessee and he spoke with a neutral American accent. He actually was very well spoken, annunciated very clearly and all that. I didn't think anything of it until one weekend he had three of his friends from home stay with us in our apartment. Holy shit, those guys all had thick southern accents. He had grown up with them, but did not talk anything like them. I even asked one of his friends about it, and was told that Bobby's parents had always made him 'talk proper'. :P

I was taught to "talk proper" in elemetary school. :P

I say reckon all the time. I didn't realize that was a regionalism.

The burn headlights thing reminded me. I have noticed that in some parts of the country you turn off a light or an engine and in some places you cut off a light or an engine. I could imagine some confusion with the latter. How the fuck do I cut off a light? I don't even have a knife on me!

Another one that I've heard (also in North Carolina, actually) is someone using 'mash' when most people would say 'push' or 'press'. Someone told me to 'mash' a button on a calculator and I didn't know wtf they were talking about. I would say that I mashed my finger if I caught it in a door or hit it with a hammer, but I wouldn't mash a button.

We have those regional things here, too. I know one about closing a window. "Ich mache das Fenster zu" would be said where I come from, and "Ich schließe das Fenster" in other parts. I guess we love our auxiliary verbs over here in the Rhineland. :D

[S John]

I was taught to "talk proper" in elemetary school. :P

Well yea, its just that southern US accents take a lot of crap from everybody, which I don't think is necessarily fair. My friends parents were scientists working at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Knoxville. They probably recognized that people absolutely will[ judge you based on your accent and worked with their son to counter the local influences all around him growing up. As far as 'proper' goes I think that if a certain place has a certain dialect then that is proper for them. I'd much prefer that we have all these interesting regional quirks than everyone talk like Dan Rather.

I think its good to establish standard spelling and grammar that everyone is taught in the school system... but if they want to burn headlights in NC, I say we let 'em.

[Kouran]

snip...

I say reckon all the time. I didn't realize that was a regionalism.

snip...

While saying "I reckon so" is perfectly acceptable english it seems to be only a southern thing. I cant recall ever hearing a northerner saying it. I would assume that since DC is on the edge of the South that some of those sayings would be in use.

The last time I was in NYC and said I reckon so, people looked at me like I had 2 heads. :worried: Of course those same people couldnt understand why you would order biscuits and gravey.

[Guest Ro_]

But OTOH, would you reasonably expect your doctor to know twenty-two different languages? If you have that great a diversity in linguistic interactions, knowing two languages isn't really that much more helpful than knowing one. If one is not expecting to be a frequent interacter with one particular language, it's probably more practical to learn a few polite phrases in several languages than trying to become fluent in one.

Indeed. My point is there is no need to sit like a fungus and not bother at all. And that is one reason right there to learn another language - I'd never tell Fillipa and BoG that what they do is worthless and they shouldn't have bothered learning another language. ;)

Sign language is a language too!

"Anything that helps them learn quicker and more effectively is beneficial to their development. Baby Sign Language stimulates the intellect in a number of ways. This intellectual stimulation benefits the child way beyond infancy.

The intellectual benefits of baby signing include:

1. Baby Sign Language increases the speed of the development of

verbal language.

2. Baby signing increases vocabulary.

3. Baby signing reinforces the use of verbal language.

4. Baby Sign Language promotes language learning through concept.

5. Baby Signing reinforces a child’s communication attempts.

6. Baby Sign Language promotes early literacy.

7. Baby Sign Language increases interests in books.

8. Baby Signing promotes the early use of complex sentences.

Baby sign benefits extend to children over 3 years old also. Older children who used Baby Sign Language as infants and toddlers have better verbal and reading skills. Many parents use books along with teaching sign language. When you point to a picture and then show the sign for the word, both reading and communication skills are improved. Vocabulary is developed earlier and grows faster. The kinesthetic elements of signing reinforce verbal skills.

You can actually teach an infant Baby Sign Language, and it will promote the use of speech sooner rather than later. Language is conceptual. You have to be able to picture an item and relate a word to the picture in your mind. When a child learns how language works by using Baby Sign Language, it is only natural the baby will attempt to use the actual word as soon as possible. The fear that baby signing slows the development of speech is ungrounded. In fact, the opposite is true.

In addition, Baby Sign Language is empowering and improves learning skills. Baby signing gives infants control over conversation. They can actually initiate a conversation when they want something. But even better, a baby can tell you when something is interesting to him or her enabling you to expand on the topic. For example, a baby might see a truck. Through signing, the infant can indicate he or she likes the truck. From there you can respond by explain something about the truck (color, size, shape, Daddy’s truck, etc). The baby signed, communicated and then learned more new information!

Baby Sign Language also teaches a baby how to form sentences. For example, a baby who desires milk signs “more” and “milk”. It is a basic sentence, but forms the groundwork for the use of much more complex sentences at an early age. Early literacy involves being able to distinguish between words and concepts. An infant may originally learn the word “cat”. But as baby signing progresses and the number of signing words grows, the baby learns to describe the cat in different ways that differentiates it. The infant learns to ask for “my kitty”, “pet the kitty”, “brown kitty”, “pretty cat”, and so on. This is a major step in language development.

There are many intellectual benefits of using Baby Sign Language. An infant learning baby signing results in the early development of literacy and verbal skills."

One link

"However, many studies have demonstrated the benefits of second language learning not only on student’s linguistic abilities but on their cognitive and creative abilities as well. Duke TIP interviewed several experts in the field about the advantages of foreign language learning for children."

(sorry, less story because that messed up font makes my toes vomit)

teach a second language early so kids aren't retarded bigots

"Development of a global attitude. During their elementary school years, children are open to ideas of global understanding. Study of a foreign language and culture can serve as an important vehicle by which to expand their intercultural views. According to many child psychologists, children reach an important developmental stage at the age of ten (Lambert, & Klineberg, 1967). "Children are in the process of moving from egocentricity to reciprocity, and information introduced before the age of ten is eagerly received" (Curtain, & Pesola, 1988, p. 4). With this expansion, children will have the freedom to explore the wealth of values and perceptions of the world; they will not be restricted to any one narrow view of life or one limited set of options (Carpenter & Torney, 1973).

Enhancement of cognitive skills. Foreign language learning enhances cognitive development and basic skills performance in elementary school children. In her article in FLESNEWS (Spring, 1989), Marianne Fuchsen wrote that "Foreign language study necessitates the acquisition of new learning strategies because it is foreign; basic to preparation for a changing world is the development of abilities to meet new challenges" (p.6). This idea that exposure to "foreignness" can lead to cognitive change was well known to Piaget; he believed that cognitive development takes place when a child is faced with an idea or experience that does not fit into his or her realm of understanding. The cognitive conflict becomes the catalyst for new thinking. Thus, foreign language study becomes the catalyst for cognitive and psychological development in young children because of the "conflict" that such study presents.

Children who are adequately exposed to two languages at an early age experience gains: they are more flexible and creative, and they reach high levels of cognitive development at an earlier age than their monolingual peers (Hamayan, 1986).

Enhancement of communication skills. The study of foreign languages has also been shown to have positive effects on memory and listening skills. While children are developing the ability to communicate in a different language system, they also learn to see language as a phenomenon in itself. Children become aware that language and its objects are independent of one another, and that there are many ways in which to refer to one object. This may also be the reason why language learning skills transfer from one language learning experience to another. Knowledge of one foreign language facilitates the study of a second foreign language (Curtain & Pesola, 1988).

Personal Benefits. Many personal benefits can be gained from the study of foreign languages; individuals who study foreign languages and cultures help themselves toward international and intercultural communication. They expose themselves to a global perspective, and enhance their career potential in the ever growing arena of international trade and cross-cultural professional exchange. (For more information on the personal benefits gained through foreign language study, see the ERIC Digest entitled Personal Benefits of Foreign Language Study, by H. Jarold Weatherford, 1986.)"

Cognitive Edge

"Dr. Petitto’s research compared a group of monolingual children who spoke solely English or French, with a group of children who communicated in both languages. The groups were further categorized by age (from 4 to 6 years) and linguistic ability.

The children participated in the “Simon Task,” which involves colored squares flashing on a computer screen. As the squares jump randomly from side to side, the children are asked to quickly select whether they’re seeing a red or blue square. If red, they press a button on their right. If blue, they press a button on the left. When correctly performed, a child who sees a blue square on the right-hand side of the screen will nonetheless press the left-hand button, signifying blue.

The bilingual children reportedly scored much better than the monolinguals, suggesting that when children learn French and English, they become better equipped to sort through abstract and contradictory information. Such activity requires a significant degree of mental sophistication, especially for a six-year-old.

Petitto attributed the difference in skill sets to the increased cognitive demands when children learn French and English or any other bilingual language pairing. By processing two languages, they develop greater mental flexibility and agility.

“For example, the brain that has been trained for bilingual language must look up and attend to the meaning for, say, ‘cup’ in one language, while suppressing the meaning for ‘cup’ in the child‘s other native language,” Petitto said, in the press release. “This requires heightened computational analysis in the brain.”"

pbs thinks learning is good too

"The most obvious benefit of elementary foreign language immersion programs is that students emerge able to communicate in more than one language. If students continue their study of both languages through the upper grades, they are far ahead of other candidates applying for jobs into today's diverse working world. The asset of being bilingual is valued by all types of employers. Other benefits of being bilingual include a positive effect on intellectual growth, enhanced mental development, and an appreciation for cultures other than the child's own.¹

Learning a second language can also improve a child's understanding of his or her native language. As a child acquires language structures in the second language, he or she is continuously scaffolding, connecting, and comparing these new structures to what is already known.

Furthermore, the benefits of knowing a second language can extend beyond school. Being bilingual gives children the ability to communicate with people they would otherwise not have had the chance to know. Parents of immersion students often come back from vacations to other countries exclaiming with surprise how shocked they were when their 2nd grader was able to order the family's meals in the waiter's native language. Knowing a second language helps young children to understand how diverse our world is; that not everyone is like them. Throughout their education, they come to appreciate other languages and cultures. They gain a greater flexibility in thinking and problem solving as well.¹"

So. Basically, learning another language is good for your brain, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT RETAIN FULL MASTERY.

[S John]

While saying "I reckon so" is perfectly acceptable english it seems to be only a southern thing. I cant recall ever hearing a northerner saying it. I would assume that since DC is on the edge of the South that some of those sayings would be in use.

Oh I've only lived in DC for a couple years. I've spent most of my life in West Virginia and in rural southern Virginia, couple summers in North Carolina sprinkled in. I'd say a DC area native has a decided northern clip to their speech. I don't think it sounds northern, but the speed is northern. Or maybe its an urban thing, I dunno. DC is so transient that its almost rare to find an actual DC native anyway. I've noticed that I speak much faster and more directly in DC than when I am visiting family in WV or NC, or talking to my dad on the phone. The speech in the latter two is much laaaazier than in DC, and thats what I grew up around. The lifestyle is a different pace and I think the speech reflects that.

[Adz of CCAA]

Well yea, its just that southern US accents take a lot of crap from everybody, which I don't think is necessarily fair. My friends parents were scientists working at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Knoxville. They probably recognized that people absolutely will[ judge you based on your accent and worked with their son to counter the local influences all around him growing up. As far as 'proper' goes I think that if a certain place has a certain dialect then that is proper for them. I'd much prefer that we have all these interesting regional quirks than everyone talk like Dan Rather.

I think its good to establish standard spelling and grammar that everyone is taught in the school system... but if they want to burn headlights in NC, I say we let 'em.

:agree:

It's not that we got the dialect beaten out of us but it was to be reserved for certain times, like talking to your family or Karneval. It's just that you are required to learn and talk and write Standard/High German in school. It would get marked as a mistake if you used slang/colloquial words in tests.

Because my parents are both not from Cologne I never learned to talk dialect at home, anyway.

I like the diversity of the German dialects very much.

My mum still speaks her dialect (some variant of Eifeler Platt, a Moselle Franconian dialect) fluently. She switches at once when talking to her sisters on the phone. I love listening to them. :)