MMA 2010 I - Pride FC re-watch and other combat sports topics.

[Ken Stone]

Apparently Anderson Silva has been talking about dropping down to 170 to challenge GSP.

MMABay

“I’d like to test myself and I always love to take on new challenges. It’s not that I want to go fight Georges St. Pierre for his title. There’s no doubt in my mind that he’s the reigning champion, the absolute champion, in that weight category. But I just want to test myself and see how I’d do at that weight.”

I have a hard time imagining that Spider can make 170. He would look sickly. Makes much more sense for GSP to jump to 185.

[Oorag]

Name one fighter that he wouldn't go for the takedown against.

Maia, if GSP moved up, but it wouldn't make sense for anyone to take Maia down.

And regarding Silva moving down, yeah, I can't see him making 170 in fighting condition. Maybe he's just trying to keep the flame of that potential match-up alive.

[Commodore]

Does anyone think Maia has a chance this weekend?

[Ken Stone]

Does anyone think Maia has a chance this weekend?

Maia has a chance, just not a great one. At the very least you can say that he has a path to victory, unlike Edgar against BJ, or Hardy against GSP.

[benderschweiz]

Apparently Anderson Silva has been talking about dropping down to 170 to challenge GSP.

MMABay

I have a hard time imagining that Spider can make 170. He would look sickly. Makes much more sense for GSP to jump to 185.

He used to be able able to make 170. Didn't look to bad at that weight, but he's mid-30s now. I'd like to see it. If GSP refuses to move up, move down and face him.

[GSP]

"I love watching fighters like BJ and Anderson, because to me, there's truly a sense of "anything can happen" in each fight. You don't want to miss a second, because they're finishers. GSP is more of a sportsman than a pure fighter (which he himself has said), and I have a good idea exactly what's going to happen in all his fights: he's going to trade with you for a bit, then go to his bread and butter. Nothing wrong with that, that's what he does and has perfected, but it hasn't made for very exciting fights, IMO. At least not recently"

Oooh, battle of the fanboys is it!

I'm sorry, but GSP dummied Penn on their feet in the second fight (which has nothing to do with any alleged vaseline). GSP would not have done as bad in that first fight on the feet if he hadn't recieved a patented Penn thumb to the eye (why does one throw punches with their thumb sticking out anyway?) resulting in him seeing double.

By the time GSP fought Koz, his one punch ko power was well known. Feeling even more superior to Koz on the ground as well, the matt was the way to go.

I guess in this sport, if you go a couple fights without managing to finish, youre a 'sportsman' not a 'fighter' and boring. Ah well. I mean, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that the best competitors out there are real hard to put away could it? I'm pretty sure Sherk thought GSP was a fighter when that elbow ruined his nose. I'll bet Hughes thought he was a fighter when he was head kicked silly. I'm willing to bet Serra didn't mistake GSP for a sportsman when he was being kneed to the ribs so hard he probably pissed blood for a week (albiet neither is a point he'll ever admit). I'm sure when Hardy's arm nearly was ripped from its socket twice all he thought was 'wow, that GSP, what a sportsman'.

When your boy was beaten silly and bloody everywhere the fight went and sat there with downcast eyes not looking at his corner, who then took the step to throw in the towell (yeah, 'to the death George', nothing, but he didn't quit .... please), I'll bet he was just wishing he was in the cage with a real fighter and not a sportsman, eh?

I'll bet good money GSP finishes his next opponent, and it won't be a finish by sportsmanship. GSP is well rounded enough to be analytical with his gameplan. If his next opponents' strength is in the stand up, he'll not let him fight there, even though his standup is probably as good or better. That's how he does it. I thought it was a well established principle of MMA that when you are well rounded, you remove the fight from wherever the other guy has his strength. I had no idea such a gameplan was indicative of being a sportsman instead of a fighter.

[Analu]

LOL @ you getting all butt hurt because I called GSP a sportsman (which as I said, he himself has called himself) and because I said his recent fights were a little boring, which they were. Whatever. You're not even worth responding to.

And you're pretty much wrong about everything, including when Kos was known for having one-punch power and why GSP was getting the better of BJ in standup in their 2nd fight. But I don't care. Believe whatever the fuck you want.

[GSP]

I'm not butt hurt about a thing, for the record. My hackles aren't up at all, so tone it down a bit, maybe? I was having fun with this thing. There is nothing wrong with calling GSP a sportsman, its the implication that he's somehow less of a fighter than other champs I don't jive with.

Ok, maybe Koz had a pillow punchers rep back then, I don't know. IIRC he'd already strung together a number of knock out wins by then. I could be wrong, and I'll give you that one. That being said, how was BJ not absolutely owned on the feet in their second go? What fight did you watch? I saw domination by GSP in every field, not just wrestling. DW has said he's open to a third fight, so maybe we'll get a mulligan. I'd like to see it.

On other topics, I think Maia has a better chance of upsetting the champ than Edgar does. I'll still be taking Silva over on Fantasy but undoubtedly, if the fight spends a lot of time on the ground, Maia can make an upset happen. That's a big, big if though. I don't suspect Maia will be able to take the fight to the mat and keep it there long enough to capitalize. I just don't see anywhere in the fight that Edgar becomes a threat to Penn. Bj doesn't show up pudgy anymore, so I can't see him being outworked. Everywhere Edgar is dangerous, Penn is more so. Where is that area of the fight that he can dominate bj if he brings him? I can't think of it. Long story short, I don't think either belt will switch hands in Abu Dabi, but if one does, I'd be less shocked to see the MW change hands than the LW.

I can't even get my head around the idea of Anderson Silva making 170. Is that even possible without him looking as flat as Irvin at 185? I heard he's made the weight in days past but surely that is not the case anymore.

[Dodgesta]

LOL @ you getting all butt hurt because I called GSP a sportsman (which as I said, he himself has called himself) and because I said his recent fights were a little boring, which they were. Whatever. You're not even worth responding to.

And you're pretty much wrong about everything, including when Kos was known for having one-punch power and why GSP was getting the better of BJ in standup in their 2nd fight. But I don't care. Believe whatever the fuck you want.

LOL @ the pot calling the kettle black.

(actually, in defense to GSP-the user not the fighter, haha-that's not even that apt of a metaphor as I don't see him being that pissed off)

[Ken Stone]

I can't even get my head around the idea of Anderson Silva making 170. Is that even possible without him looking as flat as Irvin at 185? I heard he's made the weight in days past but surely that is not the case anymore.

Silva dropping doesn't make sense because he still has the Maia fight, the Belfort fight, and then there are countless interesting fights for him at LHW. However GSP is out of fights. There is no one at 170 I want to see him fight. Maybe Renzo can get into contention, but I doubt it.

[Ser Barry]

Silva fought at 167lbs previously.

[Analu]

I'm not butt hurt about a thing, for the record. My hackles aren't up at all, so tone it down a bit, maybe? I was having fun with this thing. There is nothing wrong with calling GSP a sportsman, its the implication that he's somehow less of a fighter than other champs I don't jive with.

I thought I was being fairly complimentary of GSP, despite my initial disagreement about him being comfortable everywhere. I said I was a big fan of his and was trying to be mild (at least for me) cuz I knew he was your favorite fighter. Then you went after BJ, who you know is mine, so the gloves were off. My bad if I misinterpreted your post. But lol@random white knights coming in to defend you.

My point was that BJ and Anderson are different fighters than GSP, meaning they never seem to have a concrete strategy going into a fight. They just go where the fight takes them. Guys like GSP and Florian are more strategic, mapping out a clear gameplan beforehand and following it to a T. I'm not saying one way is necessarily better or more effective than the other, just that personallly, I prefer the former: guys who just have that internal fighter instinct that tells them what to do, when to do it, etc. Maybe GSP has it too, but I always hear him talking about following his gameplan and stuff, so I assumed he was more tactical a fighters than cerebral. Maybe I'm wrong.

And what I mean about the 2nd GSP-BJ fight is that IMO, the greasing affected BJ's whole game. When he couldn't effectively use his rubber or high guard, he got pounded so hard in the first two rounds that he said he doesn't remember anything past round 2. That's why I don't think that second fight is a great indicator that GSP's standup is better than BJ's. But then, it's just my opinion.

[Stego]

That's why I don't think that second fight is a great indicator that GSP's standup is better than BJ's. But then, it's just my opinion.

It's an absurd opinion, at that. It's like saying you don't agree that water is wet.

Why not just say that you don't think the Griffin vs Silva fight was a great indicator that Silva's standup is better than Griffins?

[JGP]

Silva dropping doesn't make sense because he still has the Maia fight, the Belfort fight, and then there are countless interesting fights for him at LHW. However GSP is out of fights. There is no one at 170 I want to see him fight. Maybe Renzo can get into contention, but I doubt it.

I got money on Belfort putting Silva away.

[Analu]

It's an absurd opinion, at that. It's like saying you don't agree that water is wet.

Why not just say that you don't think the Griffin vs Silva fight was a great indicator that Silva's standup is better than Griffins?

Not as absurd as your analogy, which if you think is a good one, leads me to believe you completely missed the point I was making.

[Oorag]

The recent turn in this thread has reminded me that MMA, in spite of being a barbaric bloodsport sport only followed by tattooed douchebags, is way behind most ball sports in instigating bar fights.

[GSP]

Hapakane,

Sorry to have stressed u in any way, but you did misinterpret my post. I was responding to a post in which you essentially said "I don't want get into a Bj vs. GSP debate, but BJ is clearly the better fighter than GSP". My "battle of the fanboys" comment was meant to indicate that I was picking up the gauntlet because you called out my guy, and I meant to keep it lighthearted. Rereading the impugned posts, I can see that maybe I wasn't explicit enough. Perhaps I should have added a winky or smiley face icon or something. Sometimes I forget that my emotions are not instantly transmitted with my posts as intended like in face to face conversations.

Honestly, I was laughing on my end the whole time and expecting a lively debate. No hards on my end.

I can't believe Silva fought at 167. How long ago was that?

[benderschweiz]

And what I mean about the 2nd GSP-BJ fight is that IMO, the greasing affected BJ's whole game. When he couldn't effectively use his rubber or high guard, he got pounded so hard in the first two rounds that he said he doesn't remember anything past round 2. That's why I don't think that second fight is a great indicator that GSP's standup is better than BJ's. But then, it's just my opinion.

I did find it strange that GSP TKO'd BJ, but couldn't manage to do the same with Hardy. Hardy's BJJ isn't on Penn's level, but for some reason he was more successful in defending GSP's GnP. Could be the grease or Penn's conditioning still may have been a factor. Just suprised me while I watched the fight.

[Analu]

Hapakane,

Sorry to have stressed u in any way, but you did misinterpret my post. I was responding to a post in which you essentially said "I don't want get into a Bj vs. GSP debate, but BJ is clearly the better fighter than GSP". My "battle of the fanboys" comment was meant to indicate that I was picking up the gauntlet because you called out my guy, and I meant to keep it lighthearted. Rereading the impugned posts, I can see that maybe I wasn't explicit enough. Perhaps I should have added a winky or smiley face icon or something. Sometimes I forget that my emotions are not instantly transmitted with my posts as intended like in face to face conversations.

Honestly, I was laughing on my end the whole time and expecting a lively debate. No hards on my end.

It's all good man. I apologize too, for misunderstanding it was all in fun and for my dickish response. I wasn't stressed, I just tend to run out of patience when I feel like I'm making an effort to be (semi)polite in a debate, and the other person isn't. Now I realize you were just trying to have some fun.

I need to stop posting early in the morning when my humor radar is still asleep.

I did find it strange that GSP TKO'd BJ, but couldn't manage to do the same with Hardy. Hardy's BJJ isn't on Penn's level, but for some reason he was more successful in defending GSP's GnP. Could be the grease or Penn's conditioning still may have been a factor. Just suprised me while I watched the fight.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. I understand not everyone believes in the greasing allegations, but as someone who does believe in them, how much effect would it have had if no grease was present and BJ could've effectively used his guard, which is one of the best in MMA? Maybe he could've swept GSP or caught an arm or a leg. Maybe it would've changed the whole fight, and he wouldn't have been so disoriented from the GNP that his striking/reflexes would've kicked in.

Anyways, it's all semantics. BJ got beat bad and humbled, which I now think is almost a blessing in disguise. He probably never would've hooked up with Marinovich and shown this new dedication without that royal asskicking.

[GSP]

S'all good Hap. I've gone off half cocked on people who were being ironic or somehow otherwise unclear on this board when it wasn't in actuality necessary to do so. Just a little misunderstanding. If you recall, I'm the massive GSP fanboy who chose NOT to rub salt in the wound after GSP/Penn II even after you made definiative statements that GSP didn't stand a chance at victory. Why would I go all dickface now?

We might get a GSP/Pen III to see how things would go down without the greasegate controversy. I'd like to see it just to put that one to rest. Personally, I think there are two different factors than greasing that make the difference in what happened to BJ and what happened to Hardy in their gsp fights. Hardy is a large, and allegedly deceptively strong welterweight (assuming the information being thrown out about Hardy during primetime wasn't total bullshit). While bj's technical skills on the ground are far ahead of Hardy's, GSP may simply not have been able to power his way through the guard and other defenses with Hardy the way he could with BJ's. Also, clearly out of respect for bj's bjj game, gsp spent little time or effort going for submissions and used his superior positioning almost exclusively to deal ground striking damage to bj, particularly in the body. GSP felt confidently superior enough to Hardy in the bjj game to use most of his time in superior positions to chase submissions, sparing Hardy the brunt of his ground striking. Hardy just happened to be gutsy, and perhaps double jointed enough, to survive a couple of attempts that appeared all but locked in.

If Bj does plow through Edgar there is talk of him dabbling up in 170. DW says he is not opposed to a third penn/gsp fight because bj's physical game has finally been dialed in post, and as you suggest directly as a result of, his loss to gsp. Most people agree though that penn would have to beat down a few of the ww contenders before going straight after the ww belt again. That's cool, because bj vs. a fitch, koz, or an Alves would be an interesting fight. I just hope that the talk of Gsp dabbling up a weight class doesn't end up making the third fight fall through.