Aemon's words to Sam at Braavos

[Ser Arthyr Dracenstein]

I took Aemon's rambling to mean himself, but if there is, indeed, something in the Wall, perhaps a dragon or Others...

If there was a dragon in the Wall, and if Melisandre had burnt Aemon at the Wall and the dragon 'hatched', Melisandre would have claimed the credit for it and strengthened her position and R'hlorr's and Stannis would probably be totally in her power.

So maybe Jon was right to send Aemon away...

[Night's Scotch]

I think that something Melisandre is going to do will cause the Wall to be consumed. It is going to collapse or otherwise disintegrate. I don't think it will be intentional, but I think it will happen. Aemon is realizing the mistake of allowing someone so unbalanced, so obsessed with fire near the Wall.

I'm leaning toward something like this. "Fire consumes" seems to refer to Melisandre and/or Rh'llor in some way. "Cold preserves" seems to suggest that the Wall will be what saves Westeros. Had he stayed at the Wall, maybe Aemon could have provided council to Jon that would stop Melisandre from whatever it is she has planned.

And maybe it will turn out to be an old man's dying ramblings....it just seems more ominous than that to me.

[YouKnowNothingJonSnow]

To sum, prophesy ran in the Targaryen family. Especially prophetic, symbolic dreams. Daeron, according to the Hedge Knight, took to drink because he couldn't handle his dreams. That drinking lifestyle is what killed him. Hence, the dragon dreams killed him. Recall, he was passed out at the inn where Dunk encountered Egg because he did not want to go to the tournament- his dreams prophesied the death of a dragon there. His uncle Baelor, as it happened.

In short, he couldn't handle having the full measure of the Targ prophetic gift.

You want a curveball? Read the series with a careful eye. The Madness of King Aerys has quite a bit of circumstantial evidence pointing towards his own affliction with prophetic dreams. Especially if he foresaw pieces of his own fate, his paranoia would make sense.

Excellent post and follow up to Steel Wind's most excellent post. Dearon was Aemon's brother. I believe that Summerhall may have also had to do with dreams driving a Targ mad, with tragic consequences.

Hence, I believe you've hit on it. It isn't just that Aemon was a Targ, but he was a Targ with prophetic dreams. This is what the Wall protected him from. Didn't he start to have strange dreams on the voyage? Sam interpreted them as fever dreams, and he probably was partially right. But I also believe these type of Targ/prophetic/dragon dreams can have tragic consequences for the dreamer if they don't learn to cope with them or control them in some way.

That's why he said it is too late to go back. By the time he got there, at his advanced age, they'd have done him in.

Also, this could have implications for Jon (if he too, is a Targ) and possibly any other Stark with warging/dreaming capabilities (Bran, Arya, Rickon). There could be a Summerhall type-price to be paid, or Daeron, if you can't control them. Look at Rickon and Shaggydog.

[imladolen]

I've got a disturbing thought (not quite theory yet): what if he is saying that R'hllor and his minions, as well as the dragons, will consume the realms of Westeros (and maybe Essos), while somehow, against all our previous assumptions, Ice (in the form of The Great Other and the normal old Others) will in the end be what preserves the realms from utter destruction?

Pretty cracked idea, right? Right??? I hope so.

Page 382 in Feast, US Bantam Dell:

"Dragons," Aemon whispered. "The grief and glory of my House, they were."

"I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one. Sam, we tremble on the cusp of half-remembered prophecies, of wonders and terrors that no man now living could hope to comprehend...or..."

"...or not." Aemon chuckled softly. "Or I am an old man, feverish and dying." He closed his white eyes wearily, then forced them open once again. "I should not have left the Wall. Lord Snow could not have known, but I should have seen it. Fire consumes, but cold preserves. The Wall...but it is too late to go running back. The Stranger waits outside my door and will not be denied. Steward, you have served me faithfully. Do this one last brave thing for me. Go down to the ships, Sam. Learn all you can about these dragons."

What is Aemon referring to? "Fire consumes, but cold preserves."

[ELITEFORCE850]

"From a smoking tower, a great stoned beast took wind breathing shadow fire" That is from the Dany chapter in the house of the undying. I always find myself reading that chapter when coming up with my own, or analyzing other people's theories. After reading this thread I went back and read the chapter again and this line really stood out to me, and wasn't Mel talking about raising the stone dragon(on dragonstone) with Edric Storm's blood? I think that their might be more to this dragon or beast of some sort that Mel may rise or at least try to.

On another note, if a dragon were to die beyond the wall, could it be turned into a white(other)?

[gregg88]

It has nothing to do with the cold; it has to do with the spells which support and preserve the Wall. Even Aemon does not voice the whole truth -- but he hints at it. Simply put: George does not like to explain how magic really works in his world. He resists that look behind the curtain in most cases.

Melisandre also hints at it in the Jon chapter that has been on George's website forever. She talks about the great power woven into the ice at the Wall. "We stand on one of the great hinges of the world".

Samwell also notes the remarkable preservation effect of the Wall upon the books that are kept in the library dug into its base. This may or may not be an actual temperature effect.

It all comes down to this: The Wall is not a natural structure and it is physically impossible to build or stand at the height that it does. The Wall is built on top of (and interwoven with) great spells of protection and preservation. These spells have an unintended consequence in how they preserve some common things (the books at the Wall, for example), but in particular, the spells interact with Aemon's Targaryen blood, granting to him, in particular, an extended life. When Aemon leaves the Wall, he moves beyond the range of those spells of preservation and his advanced age rapidly catches up with him and he dies.

He does not reach the age of 102 because he is a Targaryen. He reaches the age of 102 because he is a Targaryen living in close proximity with the greatest spell of preservation in the entire world. Those preservation spell have pernicious effects which he is particularly sensitive to. His extended life is one of those "bonus" effects.

Melisandre calling the wall a hinge could easily be referring to the fact that it separates the Seven Kingdoms from the others and the land of Always Winter.

The preservation of the books could be due to the fact that they're nothing but old records that for the most part sit undisturbed.

And while the wall is extremely large I don't think it's necessarily so large that it must be magic. In aSoS while Ygritte is marveling at the size of some tower(after they climbed the wall) Jon muses on the fact that there is some tower in old town even higher than the wall and don't forget that the Night's Watch has been adding on to the size of the wall for ~8,000 years now.

Lastly I don't see why the wall would have anything to do with the Targaryens, it was erected after the First Men and the Children of the Forest fought off the Others in the War of Dawn which is long before the Targaryen's came to rule in Westeros. The only magic that we's seen from the wall so far is the passage way in the well and regarding that we know there is a talking Weirwood which screams Children of the Forest and it's use is restricted to black brothers... nothing about that hints towards Targaryen involvement.

And looking at Aemon's words I really feel like he's talking about his own mortality, especially "The Wall...but it is too late to go running back. The Stranger waits outside my door and will not be denied." If he had just stumble upon some great revelation it wouldn't be too late because he could just tell Sam.

[Clariana]

I also like Steelwind's post... But suppose Aemon was talking about the Others? They are preserved by cold and destroyed by fire... But unless you kill them all, they'll inevitably rise again...

[Rhaegarsjoy]

Page 382 in Feast, US

"...or not." Aemon chuckled softly. "Or I am an old man, feverish and dying." He closed his white eyes wearily, then forced them open once again. "I should not have left the Wall. Lord Snow could not have known, but I should have seen it. Fire consumes, but cold preserves. The Wall...but it is too late to go running back. The Stranger waits outside my door and will not be denied. Steward, you have served me faithfully. Do this one last brave thing for me. Go down to the ships, Sam. Learn all you can about these dragons."

What is Aemon referring to? "Fire consumes, but cold preserves."

"Lord Snow could not have known, but I should have seen it." I thought that might mean something about Jon's hand getting burned and something Jon couldn't know but he should. Maybe I'm babbling.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

When he's talking about Jon Snow, Aemon is talking about how he helped Jon Snow reach the decision to send Aemon away from the wall.

to Sam: "It was as much his[Aemon] idea as it was mine[Jon]"

He might have realized that he was not in danger from Melisandre or that it didn't matter, he needed to be there, to live.

"I have often wondered why the gods have let me live this long Sam when the rest of my house is all e..."

"I should not have left the wall.."

"Fire consumes, but cold preserves."

Aemon is talking a great many things.

Beric and Dondorian "Fire consumes until there is nothing left"

"Fire and blood" are the words of his house, Targaryen, the blood of the dragon, from Valaryia the entire civilization consumed by fire, "dragons the glory and bane of my house"

Aemon(dragon) is preserved by the cold. The wall protects him from his houses madness and allows him to live longer than anyone in his house.

or not.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

For those of you that think that Master Aemon is dieing because he is in a warmer climate; Consider that he was old and blind and would have rarely gone outside at the wall. He would have been wrapped in blankets with a big fire going, drinking spiced wine.

However, In bravos one of their biggest issues was firewood. There are no trees except for a windfall on the coast, so there is nothing to burn. Even dung is scarce. Basically Master Aemon is more cold in bravos than he ever would have been at the wall. So in my mind its quite clear that he is not talking about his health deteriorating because of the weather.

[gwenyth]

Given that the title of the entire series is ASOIAF, I cannot imagine that Aemon's words - referring to fire and ice (cold) - are intended to be merely the maunderings of an old man on the verge of death. I don't have a clue as to exactly what they might mean - the story is so mulit-layered - but that he is merely talking about himself and his own death is hardly likely.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Steel winds post is a good interpretation.

Couple that with the idea of dragon dreams, and that the dragons themselves seem to provide power to magic, ie when they were born Danny walked into the fire, pyromancers, etc

A good emxample of preservation and perhaps that the spells in the wall are deteriorating, is the age of heroes.

Where it seems everyone lived for FAR longer than thy should.

Just riffing, but depending on how far westeros/the world has fallen from what I think was in the ancient past(2000+ years) a very high fantasy, high magic world. But that power corrupted and destroyed, like nuclear weapons...for example...

[Whitering]

He might have lived to 102 if he had stayed in Oldtown. At that age, any shock to your system can kill you, like moving from a -20 celsius to a place with high humidity and maybe 30 celsius average, not to mention the shock of a pretty hard trip by ship.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

He himself was preserved by the cold despite his advanced age. Now that he has gone to a region with a warmer climate his age finally caught up with him and he dies.

yeah that's what I think he meant.

[andrew_]

The dragon at or in the wall may refer to Jon Snow and the theory R+L=JS

[billy g.]

Wow, a resurrected Zombie thread. Woot! :P

(I think there's a dragon egg or two preserved in the Wall, similar to the LC who froze himself and his kids in the Nightfort. My 2 cents)

[Sodd]

My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one.

I never noticed this sentence before. He had 3 brothers (and also 2 sisters): Daeron, Aerion and Aegon (Egg)

In Aerions case it is clear what he meant: he wanted to turn himself into a dragon by drinking wildfire, and died in the process.

With Egg, this is another strong hint that Summerhall happened because of an attempt to revive dragons.

But what about Daeron? Daeron the drunken, who died of a disease caught from some whore? How can be that interpreted as "died because dreams about dragons"?

Maybe it hints that Daeron was disturbed by his (sometimes)prophetic dreams, and turned alcoholic because of that, and his miserable lifestyle and death was the result? It's the only thing I can think of... or might this just be a small oversight? Any ideas?

[The Dragon has three heads]

^thats what was suggested earlier, yes.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I never noticed this sentence before. He had 3 brothers (and also 2 sisters): Daeron, Aerion and Aegon (Egg)

In Aerions case it is clear what he meant: he wanted to turn himself into a dragon by drinking wildfire, and died in the process.

With Egg, this is another strong hint that Summerhall happened because of an attempt to revive dragons.

But what about Daeron? Daeron the drunken, who died of a disease caught from some whore? How can be that interpreted as "died because dreams about dragons"?

Maybe it hints that Daeron was disturbed by his (sometimes)prophetic dreams, and turned alcoholic because of that, and his miserable lifestyle and death was the result? It's the only thing I can think of... or might this just be a small oversight? Any ideas?

yes it seems like Dareon was sick in a depressed sense of the word, probably had bad dreams and dragons would not be a fun thing to dream of every night. Maybe it made him a little crazy and drove him to drink and whore around. the first scene in Dunk and egg where they are at the Inn and Dareon is shithoused in the corner is very telling about how he was living towards the end.

[bemused]

Steel_Wind, ...Yes, and the magic asscociated with the priests of R'Hllor,at least, seems to consume those who are working it , as well as those they're using it on ( Stannis, Beric e.g.) ,,, that Mel could not be killed by poison, and doesn't need to eat, etc. , or that Moqorro could survive all that time alone at sea.. Mel's seeming undead state ...would all seem to exemplify this.