Union of Soviet Socialist Ran's Board Threads

[Datepalm]

DP,

I'm wondering what happens if opting out of the economy becomes a fad. As people opt out there will be less to spread around via taxation and other means. As such would the socialized government be tempted to go Kulak on the people who have opted out?

Why, is there no income tax in scot!socialism?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

DP,

Why, is there no income tax in scot!socialism?

If they are living on subsitence and barter there is no measureable income to tax.

[Tears of Lys]

I'd fight to the death for my MicroKopter.

[Datepalm]

If they are living on subsitence and barter there is no measureable income to tax.

I assume they are using the free healthcare, education, roads, museums, etc? In that case, god, those leechy welfare queens, but it is societys responsibilty to care for these kinds of unfortunates. If they're not, then they're just not participating in the economy at all, so who cares? I assume theres room for eccentrics.

Why am I figuring out your bizzaro hypothetical?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

DP,

I assume they are using the free healthcare, education, roads, museums, etc? In that case, god, those leechy welfare queens, but it is societys responsibilty to care for these kinds of unfortunates. If they're not, then they're just not participating in the economy at all, so who cares? I assume theres room for eccentrics.

Why am I figuring out your bizzaro hypothetical?

Oh, they'll use those things. I'm simply pointing out if the are growing there own food, making their own power and bartering for everything else they need there is no way to measure their income because they don't need cash to operate. If this becomes a growing movement to get out from under a system some believe is oppresive the Government would have to take action.

[Datepalm]

DP,

Oh, they'll use those things. I'm simply pointing out if the are rowing there own food, making their own power and bartering for everything else they need there is no way to measure their income because they don't need cash to operate. If this becomes a growing movement to get out from under a system some believe is oppresive the Government would have to take action.

Hey, if its worth living a life of all but poverty for, propped up only by a government they despise, then fair enough. What will they do, having destroyed the system?

/important tangent:

Dear August Ever Wise Board Gods of Eternal Majesty: Ran and Mods and all: If we can get Ser Scot to admit he's basically a socialist, will you give us a commie smiley?*

*This is not to be taken to be an understanding that if he does not admit this (capitalists being fickle, delusional and untrustrworthy) that I withdraw the legitimacy of other attempts (ie, mentioning it now and then) to get a commie smiley.

/

Also, i'm on reserve duty (coerced by the government, no less, and no internet) for a week from like 5 am tommorow, and its already half past seven, so Scot, can we get to whatever your point is?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

DP,

Also, i'm on reserve duty (coerced by the government, no less, and no internet) for a week from like 5 am tommorow, and its already half past seven, so Scot, can we get to whatever your point is?

That I like socialism as long as people are choosing to participate without coersion?

[The Progressive]

DP,

That I like socialism as long as people are choosing to participate without coersion?

Like in Britain or Sweden then?

[Stego]

Objecting to using force to eliminate private property ownership is splitting hairs?

If there is anyone in the country that apply force on the people, then it is not socialism. It has been called socialism. I even believe they were trying for socialism. But it was a failed attempt.

And I would suggest that all of the crimes committed (Crimes against humanity)by the regimes you mentioned are no worse than the indigenous genocide that the governments and people of the United States and Canada are responsible for.

If they are evil for those acts, then we are no less so.

[snake]

And I would suggest that all of the crimes committed (Crimes against humanity)by the regimes you mentioned are no worse than the indigenous genocide that the governments and people of the United States and Canada are responsible for.

If they are evil for those acts, then we are no less so.

You got that right.

[potsherds]

You got that right.

Agreed.

I would also like a commie smiley, pretty please. :P

[El-ahrairah]

I think socialism is without doubt the perfect system. Everyone works his hardest at what he is good at, and takes freely whatever he needs. There is no competition, no greed, and no hoarding.

However...

Unlike socialism, Man is not perfect. He is fallen. And he can never make a Heaven on Earth this side of Judgment Day. We can certainly try to move our current system a little out of the capitalist sludge-pit, but the basic things like private property will have to remain until they are voluntarily given up, by every last one of us.

[Guest Raidne]

Unlike socialism, Man is not perfect. He is fallen. And he can never make a Heaven on Earth this side of Judgment Day. We can certainly try to move our current system a little out of the capitalist sludge-pit, but the basic things like private property will have to remain until they are voluntarily given up, by every last one of us.

Lesbian separatism it is then!

[potsherds]

I think socialism is without doubt the perfect system. Everyone works his hardest at what he is good at, and takes freely whatever he needs. There is no competition, no greed, and no hoarding.

However...

Unlike socialism, Man is not perfect. He is fallen. And he can never make a Heaven on Earth this side of Judgment Day. We can certainly try to move our current system a little out of the capitalist sludge-pit, but the basic things like private property will have to remain until they are voluntarily given up, by every last one of us.

:shocked:

I'm just wondering. Are you capable of writing a post that doesn't incorporate your faith and it's silly language?

[Guest Raidne]

I hope you haven't been wondering for very long.

[potsherds]

I hope you haven't been wondering for very long.

Eh. I usually just skip his posts. I just happened to read that one cos the first paragraph showed promise.

[Vethnar]

Now we finally come down to it.

What is so inherently moral about private means of production that you would turn outlaw for it? (I'm not going to argue with your "all private property" strawman, since no governemnt (maybe North Korea?)has ever actually done it and no one in this thread is arguing for it. It has actually been done by Kibbutzim - yes, the collective child raising thing too - and theres interesting lessons to be learned there.)

Datepalm,

That article on North Korea was very fascinating. Thanks for sharing!

[ThinkerX]

Hmmm...

In the US, the government is pretty much the largest single employer there is.

The financial and automotive industries are basically completely dependant on government subsidies (though they're some times called other things in an effort to disguise this) just to stay afloat.

Most of the home grown large scale US manufacting biz is for military (government) use, and is basically funded by the government. Without that support, about half the manufacturing left in the US dies in short order.

It is now getting to be routine for the government to hand over administration of this or that supposed government operation to private enterprise. One example - Food Stamps are basically run by one of the really big investment banks.

As to forcing people into line...

...forty some years ago, my parents had the government come in and basically confiscate about a dozen acres of their homestead for a road. No choice in the matter at all. As it was, they got off lucky; there seems to be an unending trickle of stories of the government effective forcing people out of their houses so a freeway or shopping mall or something else can be built on the spot.

...the Bush II crew was fond of sending out 'gag orders' to people they didn't want talking about this or that act of malfeance on their part. This practice appears to have continued into the Obama admistration (be some serious lawsuits pertaining to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac directly connected to this).

Say the wrong thing at the wrong time, get some petty government official ticked off at you...and you can forget about getting on an airplane - and even if you can get on an airplane, these days that process is getting to be increasingly...unpleasant.

This is just the more recent stuff - and I'm leaving out the really evil Patriot Act provisions still in effect (actually fully supported by Obama) - the ones that really would let the government 'vanish' people in the middle of the night on a basically arbitrary basis. In the past, the government has regularly infiltrated groups they detested - witness the McCarthy mess and and Civil Rights movement. None of this just 'stopped'.

Go into biz for yourself? Ask Timmet about that freaking self employment tax he has to fork over. It is nothing short of crippling; my personal belief is it is crippling by design - don't want these small biz types coming out of nowhere and disrupting things. Likewise, try setting up that small biz out of your house, and even though it is *your* land, you are quite likely to be told 'you can't do that' in short order - by people waving law books around to prove it.

I'd say we are already living in a mild socialist state - one with the potential to get real nasty in a hurry.

[Ran]

What's that I hear? The sound of marching feet, "The Internationale" wafting through the air?

Do you hear it?

Вставай, проклятьем заклеймённый,

Весь мир голодных и рабов!

Кипит наш разум возмущённый

И в смертный бой вести готов.

Весь мир насилья мы разрушим

До основанья, а затем

Мы наш, мы новый мир построим, —

Кто был ничем, тот станет всем.

:commie: :commie: :commie: :commie: :commie:

:commie: :commie: :commie: :commie: :commie:

|: Это есть наш последний

И решительный бой.

С Интернационалом

Воспрянет род людской! :|

[TerraPrime]

:commie:

:bowdown: to Ran