Soccer 18

[Black Wizard]

Some German journalist called Rafael something was just on Radio Scotland talking about the Champions League and had an amusing point to make. Louis Van Gaahl was asked in the press conference about Fergie's "Typical Germans" comments and Rafael said "if you ask a Dutchman about his team doing something typically German then he's always going to look at you funny, and the same goes for Ribery, Robben etc." He also pointed out that Fergie described the Bayern players as being professional and in Germany that's not an insult. :lol: That "Typical Germans" comment from Fergie is sheer hypocrisy though. He's obviously never seen Rio Ferdinand's reaction everytime a decision goes against Man U and he must also have forgotten Roy Keane very quickly. This coming from an Alex Ferguson who, since his days as Aberdeen manager, has encouraged players to put the referee under pressure.

A French journalist also spoke about his feeling that Lyon have a good chance against Bayern Munich because Bayern are weak defensively (I noticed myself that Dimichelis was all over the place) and Lyon will be well organised. The German guy agreed with this and said about Bayern's comeback that "all season they've been putting themselves in these positions but Robben or Ribery or sometimes both come and rescue them". I have only seen Bayern and Lyon once this season and before this year the only other time I'd seen Lyon they got humped by Rangers and I hadn't seen Bayern for years before last night, so I honestly haven't the faintest idea how the semi-final could pan out.

[Iskaral Pust]

Liverpool are 3-0 up on Benfica and cruising. Lets hope there are no more late lapses.

[Zoë Sumra]

...IIIiiiiii think you're running on delay, Isk. Benfica got a goal about two minutes ago from a free kick and now have another in a similar place... just deflected, inches wide!!

ETA: Congratulations to Lucas and Torres for making Liverpool's fourth. Liverpool now 5-3 and a Benfica comeback is looking less likely than it did... and in Germany, Fulham keep missing chances. *is typing with crossed fingers*

[Jon AS]

Hamburg had little trouble with Standard, Petric scored with a very nice overhead kick for his second goal.

From what little I saw of Wolfsburg-Fulham Wolfsburg were truly dire. Guess there's a reason they were completely taken apart at home by Hertha a few weeks ago, they're far away from the form they had this time last year.

And Liverpool are through as well? See there's still English teams in European competition. They get to play Atlético Madrid.

[Renasko]

Might wind up being an all-English final, after all. I'd have confidence in Fulham against Hamburg, who we played earlier in this year and have weaknesses. Atletico are a bit of an indifferent team this season, so I'd have hopes Liverpool could complete their side of things, too.

[baxus]

Arguably true, as you could see from the chance he had to score in the first half - he looked nervous and rattled by it. But there's no way Neville could have kept up with Ribery the way while still offering an attacking threat, like Rafael did for most of the first half. He has never had that level of athleticism, still less now in his thirties.

And to suggest that playing Rafael ahead of O'Shea (just back from long-term injury) was a managerial mistake by Fergie is simply playing the hindsight game. If you'd made that suggestion before the match - and let's face it, you wouldn't have - you'd have been rightly told it was daft.

i said that it was hindsight game, didn't i? ;)

on the other hand o'shea WAS put in the game when united was down a man and had the task of defending for 40 minutes straight...

i'd say that if ferguson considered him good enough for that, he considered him good enough for starting the match...

before the match, rafael playing wasn't a mistake it turned out to be, i agree, but after his first booking something could/should have been done... i mean, even the commentator on serbian tv saw that :D

No, they got knocked out because their defence went to sleep for the first goal, because a number of players (Vidic and Carrick particularly) had poor games, because Rafael engaged in a silly act of petulant retaliation for his first booking, and because the players lost their nerve after the sending-off.

i wouldn't say vidic had a bad game... he did what was asked of him, and i can't say it was his mistake(s) that let bayern score... if someone expects him to organise manchester's offensive, they will be disapointed every time...

carrick made a huge mistake for bayern's first goal and i didn't actually see him do anything on the pitch, but a lot of things are done during a football match that you don't get to see on tv and i'll give him the benefit of the doubt

Playing Rooney was a good decision - he contributed to the first two goals and unsettled Bayern. He took a knock on the ankle, and should probably have gone off at half-time, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a good idea to play him in the first place. It certainly didn't cost them the game. As I've already said, bringing O'Shea on was absolutely necessary, and the obvious person to bring off was Rooney because of that ankle knock: and Nani did a decent job up front, although I think he should have put Gibson up there instead. But, they didn't lose because of that either.

Fergie didn't do everything right, but the claim that they lost 'purely because of his decisions' is just rubbish.

i'm just saying that a fully fit berbatov or macheda, with a different gameplan would almost certainly be more useful than less-than-100% rooney who couldn't run for half of the 50 minutes he spent on the pitch...

and leaving your team with no forwards to defend for 40 minutes straight against a team that got to CL quarterfinals IS JUST RUBBISH ;)

[mormont]

i said that it was hindsight game, didn't i? ;)

on the other hand o'shea WAS put in the game when united was down a man and had the task of defending for 40 minutes straight...

i'd say that if ferguson considered him good enough for that, he considered him good enough for starting the match...

Quite obviously, the facts show you're wrong about that, because he didn't start.

What's with all the ellipses... by... the... way? It's kind of irritating and they are redundant.

before the match, rafael playing wasn't a mistake it turned out to be, i agree

The you agree you were wrong, and there's not much more to talk about on that point, surely?

i wouldn't say vidic had a bad game...

His marking was poor (he could well have given away another goal) and his distribution from defence was woeful - particularly in the second half, when it was critical to relieve the pressure. No striker can possibly make a difference when the ball doesn't get to him, because your centre-half is passing from your own 18-yard line direct to an opposition player in your own half.

Certainly he wasn't solely to blame: Ferdinand didn't distribute the ball well either.

carrick made a huge mistake for bayern's first goal and i didn't actually see him do anything on the pitch, but a lot of things are done during a football match that you don't get to see on tv and i'll give him the benefit of the doubt

A novel argument. Everything I saw Carrick do was poor, and if he was doing wonderfully important things they were so subtle as to be invisible (not just to me, either) and didn't have any effect on the match. I don't really see why anyone should suppose he was doing them.

i'm just saying that a fully fit berbatov or macheda, with a different gameplan would almost certainly be more useful than less-than-100% rooney who couldn't run for half of the 50 minutes he spent on the pitch...

Again, the facts disagree with you. Rooney provided an assist, was involved in the other goal, and caused Bayern many problems. Berbatov eventually did come on to replace Nani and made no impact at all. Would another fifteen minutes really have transformed his contribution and changed the tie? Not on the evidence of the actual match. If bringing him on instead of playing Nani as a striker would have turned the game - why didn't it?

Fergie isn't without blame, but the idea that his managerial choices were the sole reason for that result is, and remains, silly and ill-informed. Sorry, but that's a fact.

[Black Wizard]

Well here's something quite amusing. It's Premier League players and managers self-portraits. The drawings and signatures have been interpreted by a graphologist. Robin Van Persie's is my favourite.

And speaking of RVP he's about to start full training again along with Kieran Gibbs and Johann Djourou (not that those two make the team any better in my opinion).

[polishgenius]

Gibbs is better than Clichy and Djourou is surely not a worse CB than Silvestre, so surely they do?

[BigFatCoward]

Gibbs is better than Clichy and Djourou is surely not a worse CB than Silvestre, so surely they do?

Gibbs certainly will be better, not sure about quite yet. and we are all better CB's than Silverstre.

RVP has been a big miss this year. if he'd been playing i'd guess arsenal would be at least 5 points better off.

[Black Wizard]

Ok point taken on Silvestre, but I wasn't impressed with Djourou when I've seen him in the past, he has the physique of a winger. The first two times I saw Kieran Gibbs he slipped and gifted Manchester United golden chances. Another quote from that French journalist last night was "Lionel Messi will not be up against Mikel Silvestre all the time".

That quote was actually in relation to Inter's chances against Barca in the semi-finals. The French journo described Inter as a "nightmare" for Barcelona and I can see where he's coming from. Jose Mourinho is one of the best, if not the best, tacticians around. His game plan for the match at Stamford Bridge was spot-on (just like Hiddink's game plan for the second leg against Barca last year) and he's beaten Barcelona before. It will be harder to shut Barcelona down on the bigger pitches at the Nou Camp and San Siro, but if anyone knows how to do it...

[Fireball07]

Gibbs is better than Clichy at the moment, because Clichy really has not played well this season at all.

[Renasko]

Clichy has brilliant pace, which is a huge asset in the modern game. He was one of the few Arsenal players that attempted to drive forward against Barcelona and carry the fight to them. If I recall he had one really good chance, as well. Played pretty well.

[polishgenius]

The first two times I saw Kieran Gibbs he slipped and gifted Manchester United golden chances.

Indeed, but other than that even in those games he was pretty good and has generally shown good positioning and a certain mental maturity, whereas Clichy has defensive positioning roughly on par with a confused log and slightly better than Mikel Silvestre, and was so badly affected by Eduardo's injury and Arsenal's subsequent failure to win that game and the title that he pretty much turned into a crap player since.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

I have not been following Clichy closely of late, but I would definitely say that at his best he is better than anything Gibbs has shows so far. Gibbs might become better that Clichy in time, but at the moment I wouldn't count on it.

[Fireball07]

I have not been following Clichy closely of late, but I would definitely say that at his best he is better than anything Gibbs has shows so far. Gibbs might become better that Clichy in time, but at the moment I wouldn't count on it.

At his best, yes, but Clichy's positioning and concentration has been all over the place for the last season and a bit. He's fast alright, but that's no good if you're out of position. Gibbs is definitely more solid.

[Renasko]

He's fast alright, but that's no good if you're out of position.

Hehe, actually being quick can help him compensate for his poor positioning, as he'll be able to get back into place, fast. Of course it doesn't guarantee this result all the time, but it is important.

[polishgenius]

Hehe, actually being quick can help him compensate for his poor positioning, as he'll be able to get back into place, fast. Of course it doesn't guarantee this result all the time, but it is important.

His problem isn't just getting caught up pitch though, I'm talking his positioning over where to stand when he's trying to mark someone or intercept a pass. His pace can make a difference there but a lot less over distances that small.

[baxus]

@ mormont:

... is a force of habbit ;)

as i said, playing rafael in a game as important as this one turned out to be a mistake and i bet that SAF would have put o'shea in from the start if he could do it all over again (or he'd have rafael on a waaaay tighter leash)

also, vidic was solid in defense, didn't make any huge mistakes that cost his team dearly, and he was never supposed to make a long pass to rooney (not that he could have run after it with the level of fitness he's shown in that game) or berbatov

i don't remember vidic EVER organising play, whether while playing for club or serbia

he did exactly what he's supposed to do, no more but no less either

i agree that carrick didn't do much (or anything) but then again i don't know what SAF told him to do and since he wasn't followed around by tv cameras all the time i can't say if he did his job

he handled the situation leading to the first goal poorly, and he didn't succeed in blocking robben's shot but i didn't see fletcher or gibson or nani or anyone running to do it

in berbatov's defence, scoring in 10 minutes as an ONLY forward in a team that's a man down, especially when everyone on your team is starting to panic is even more difficult than it sounds ;)

[Black Wizard]

Ross County have dominated the first-half of their semi-final against Celtic. :o They haven't created any chances so this has 1-0 Celtic written all over it. The Celtic goal will probably come from the obligatory Robbie Keane penalty.

EDIT: Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God.

EDIT: THIS IS THE MOST FUCKING INCREDIBLE THING I'VE EVER SEEN.