College Football Again

[Ken Stone]

From 1990 forward (20 seasons plus current), every single Pac 10 program has had either a champion representing the league in the Rose Bowl or a top 10 national finish in the polls. Every single one. Without exception. I believe that in that same time frame, Colorado had a national championship (shared) and Utah had a top 10 national finish so this will still be true when the Pac 12 starts play next year.

So has the Sunbelt. I suppose they are an elite conference now too?

[Ken Stone]

The NFL has produced exactly two unbeaten regular seasons in the past forty years. Because it is really, really hard to go unbeaten in the NFL. I don't know off the top of my head, but I'd guess there were maybe three more where teams were unbeaten through the eleven or twelve games that constitute a college season. Not so true in some of the top-heavy but bottom weak college leagues.

The Pac 10 has NFL-like depth across the board. There are NO basket programs (though there are some basket teams and even some teams that go through 5-10 year streaks of poor play). From 1990 forward (20 seasons plus current), every single Pac 10 program has had either a champion representing the league in the Rose Bowl or a top 10 national finish in the polls. Every single one. Without exception. I believe that in that same time frame, Colorado had a national championship (shared) and Utah had a top 10 national finish so this will still be true when the Pac 12 starts play next year.

I don't think you are being completely fair here either. In the time period you mention (since 1990) there have been 30 champions in the PAC10. In that same time period there have have been 20 SEC champs, and 15 Big 12 champs. There have been years when 33% of the teams that played in the PAC10 were declared champs! What kind of Mickey Mouse shit is that? Declare a third ... let me say that again louder ... A THIRD of your teams champs and they make the case that you have more parity because more teams in your conference have been declared champs! Thats rich!

[Bronn Stone]

I don't think you are being completely fair here either. In the time period you mention (since 1990) there have been 30 champions in the PAC10. In that same time period there have have been 20 SEC champs, and 15 Big 12 champs. There have been years when 33% of the teams that played in the PAC10 were declared champs! What kind of Mickey Mouse shit is that? Declare a third ... let me say that again louder ... A THIRD of your teams champs and they make the case that you have more parity because more teams in your conference have been declared champs! Thats rich!

No. There have been 20 champions meeting my criteria in 20 years. You will note that I said "Champions who represented the conference in the Rose Bowl". Each year, there was only one of those - actually fewer - USC went to a BCS championship instead of a Rose Bowl once IIRC. Make it 19 in 20 years.

[Arakasi]

It helps to read arguments before trying to refute them. :P Of course there is a point whether Parity makes a conference strong. It doesn't hurt.

[BLU-RAY]

So, um, is there any way for a BCS conference to send zero teams to BCS bowl games?

USF @ Fighting SJohns right now.

[lokisnow]

So, um, is there any way for a BCS conference to send zero teams to BCS bowl games?

USF @ Fighting SJohns right now.

yeah, if Notre Dame gets ten wins it gets an automatic BCS berth because they're Notre Dame. and the Big East doesn't get one in that case unless they get an at large bid, iirc.

Pat Haden let the cat out of the bag on the Pac12 divisions, North/South with Cal/Stanford to the North.

at the moment it doesn't seem that the non division Cal round robin games are preserved (USC/Cal, USC/Stanford, UCLA/Cal, UCLA/Stanford), but Haden says he proposed a 5-2-2 which would reserve two of the non-division games for the California rivalries, and rotate the Oregon/Washington teams through the other two games on a four year basis. a 5-2-2 just for the Cal schools would reduce the trips to LA a lot more than a zipper 5-2-2 model like Pac12 Cooler (or I have mentioned before).

However, it sounds as though Haden is more concerned with preserving the California games than anything else, the quote is, "the alumni would kill me if we don't have the weekender every year," so that raises the obvious bargaining chip if USC and UCLA are willing to accept equal revenue sharing then the Northwest schools might be willing to accept a 5-2-2 model for the California schools that limits their access to Los Angeles.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/29844/cal-and-stanford-to-the-north

Pat Haden says

We’re going for the money, sadly, that’s what it is. We need a conference title game. I went to my first athletic directors meeting last week and we discussed expansion. We made a recommendation that passed 7 to 5 and the presidents of the schools will vote on it later this month. There’s no guarantee it will pass, it was only a 7 to 5 vote, certainly not unanimous. The alignment that got 7 votes was one that puts USC/UCLA, the Arizona schools and Col/Utah in the same division. I told them my alumni will kill me if we don’t play the Northern California schools and have the weekender every year. I proposed a 5-2-2 model that has us playing the five schools (UCLA, AZ schools and Co/Ut) every year and then have the Northern California schools as part of our regular 2 and then rotate the other two. We need to play Stanford and Cal.

I have to say, though, that USC makes out like a fucking bandit in that divisional alignment. All the teams that tend to challenge USC for Pac10 dominance are relegated to the other division. That leaves really only Utah as a team with a tradition of dominance in football in our division. This is great news for the Trojans, because it puts us in the Nebraska position of being the team that almost always is division champ and almost always in the championship game. I really really hope we get our post season ban reduced to one year. :)

[Bronn Stone]

5-2-2 would be survivable for Cal. Otherwise, there would be an uproar that would kill crucial fundraising underway for our stadium expansion. I am glad to see that the LA schools consider the 'road trip weekend' as important as the Bay Area schools do.

I wonder if they will throw the Championship Game bone to the Bay Area.

[lokisnow]

ahh, but if 5-2-2 is what the Cali schools want and they'll give up unequal revenue sharing to get it, then it will happen. Interestingly enough, Oregon will probably be the ninth vote for 5-2-2 as Riley has said they don't give a damn about having a game in LA every year. Washington will be vehemently against such a situation.

This is why a zipper 5-2-2 is the best alignment, it puts one LA and one SF school in each division and gives every school two regional rivals. so you have seven teams you play every year and 2 games where you rotate through the four remaining teams.

The only objection to a zipper is that it is hard to market, however, a zipper makes more sense for marketing for the Pac10 because there is an easy east/west division to make between the current rivals. And you can market the geographic rivalries as well (California, Northwest, Four-Corners). Certainly it would be easier to remember who is in what division than in the ACC or Big10. This also holds out the tantalizing possibility of rivals rematching for the championship game, which would be awesome every time it happened.

[lokisnow]

sorry I got my coaches mixed up, I meant iirc, Chip Kelly said back during the brouhaha of expansion that Oregon doesn't care about playing in SoCal every year.

[Ken Stone]

No. There have been 20 champions meeting my criteria in 20 years. You will note that I said "Champions who represented the conference in the Rose Bowl". Each year, there was only one of those - actually fewer - USC went to a BCS championship instead of a Rose Bowl once IIRC. Make it 19 in 20 years.

Fair enough. I wonder though, why do you start 20 years ago to make your case that the PAC 10 has more parity than anyone else? Why does what happend in 1990 have anything to do with today's conference's? In the last 6 years the PAC 10 has had exactly 2 teams that fit your criteria. The Big 12 has had 3. The SEC has had 5. The Big 10 has had 3.

Isn't it more correct to say that in ancient history the PAC 10 had more parity, but in more recent, relevent history the have had the least parity of any of the college football conferences?

Also, how many championships has Arizona won? Can you really make the case that there are no bottom-dwelling teams in the PAC 10?

THE CLOTHES OF THE PAC 10 PARITY EMPEROR APPEAR TO BE ELSEWHERE.

[lokisnow]

and the AD vote has some weight but it is ultimately immaterial compared to what the presidents want. Meaning the presidents vote is the one that really matters

[BLU-RAY]

Good Christ, SC playing some pissed off football. 42-0 at the HALF? Jesus.

Enjoying this Texas-Nebraska game. Why am I rooting for Texas?

[WarGalley]

First time Mich St has been 7-0 since 1966. I have some friends going to Northwestern's homecoming game against them next week. Man I wish I could go with them.

[Arakasi]

Because Nebraska losing helps Oregon and the Pac 10? Other than that dunno. Hope Texas holds on and wins this thing. Would be nice if the Hogs took down Auburn too. I doubt we can expect much from the Badgers tonight.

[lokisnow]

Mizzou went to Texas and clobbered A&M, that was satisfying after losing to Baylor at home last year. If Nebraska loses to texas and ohio state drops to wisconsin or arkansas drops auburn, I think we could expect Gameday to show up at Columbia, MO next week for the game against Oklahoma.

Mizzou shows the intelligence of letting a coach develop and build a program, in Pinkle's first four years I think he only had one winning season (6&6) and we've really built a strong program from top to bottom. first we really developed the offense, now we're building up the defense. I like seeing the team develop and struggle and work so hard for every win. :)

LOVING this USC game. Those are my Trojans I've been missing after our two last second losses this year I was afraid the whole season was going to collapse and be a heartbreaker.

[chionophile]

Loving this UW game so far. Sooo perfect right now.

edit: 21-0! Awesome!

[dornish prince]

Because Nebraska losing helps Oregon and the Pac 10? Other than that dunno. Hope Texas holds on and wins this thing. Would be nice if the Hogs took down Auburn too. I doubt we can expect much from the Badgers tonight.

not looking good so far for you so far. man...our defense, and theirs, too, was atrocious but i'll take it.

war eagle!!!

jordan jefferson and greg mcelroy are not mallett and unnamed arkansas 2nd string QB. our offense is unstoppable :) and we are top ten against the rush.

USC showed moxie today, as did the fighting mack browns. wisconsin is doing it as we speak. Michigan state is looking dangerous right now as well. helps that they don't play the buckeyes.

the evenness between top tier teams is the best that i've ever seen. that is exactly why, at the very least, the BCS formula needs to be tweeked. maybe there is a happy marriage somewhere between tradition and a playoff. :dunno:

shaping up to be an interesting second half

ETA: cam newton will be the front runner for the heisman after this week.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

South Carolina really blew that one.

[Arakasi]

Looks like the Badgers are doing it too.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

And this is why in the dictonary under sufferin there is a photo of a Gamecock fan. For every big win we have an eqivelently ignominous loss.