Poobah Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 As others have pointed out Kvothe suffers from one of the most classical and destructive character flaws of all: hubris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I think most of the criticism of Kvothe stems from a personal dislike of the character as written. Disliking one character in an ensemble cast of POVs won't ruin one's experience; but let's face it, these books are all about him. If you don't like the character you can't be expected to like the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttree Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 please delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suttree Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I like ASOIAF :)Also really like the Ender/Shadow/Homecoming series, the Culture and Cantos series as well. I'm just more of a fan of sci-fi than I am of fantasy, I suppose.As for Lynch, that book's getting better. It's his style that I find displeasing, not his ideas. Very technical.Listen, I'm not going to argue right or wrong as you seem to want to do. You either like something or you don't, right? Don't take it so personally that I disliked a book you happened to love.Nothing personal mate, just trying to get a better understanding.As an aside, have been getting more into scifi lately. Just finished Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan and really enjoyed it. If you like his work you may want to check out his fantasy series "A Land Fit for Heroes".Character flaws are good things!And Kvothe has plenty of them. Again it's an unreliable narrator situation and the story certainly is not heading in the direction that some here seem to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound Dog Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 As an aside, have been getting more into scifi lately. Just finished Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan and really enjoyed it. If you like his work you may want to check out his fantasy series "A Land Fit for Heroes".That's funny... just yesterday one of my Goodreads "friends" recommended me this series. Could be I check it out in the future. As for right now... bah, I've got a big enough stack of books to go through :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I always thought the 'flawless character' criticism was offset by the present day Kvothe, who is clearly not flawless. His abilities and his confidence have clearly taken a knock, and that keeps it interesting for me; how it came to be, why he regrets his actions etc.Yes, but in terms of the main story, Kvothe is a talented magician/musician who keeps pleading poverty when he really isn't (not being rich is not the same as being poor. Once he's got that room at the tavern, he knows where his next meal is coming from). Then he goes from virgin to sex god in the most cringeworthy way possible. *This* is the Kvothe we follow round for 90 percent of the story, the one we're supposed to cheer for, not the burnt out old one at the tavern: if the old one is self-aggrandising, does it really matter, since from our perspective as readers, we're still being forced to wade through the first-person-perspective of a Gary Stu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Fitzpatrick Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Yes, but in terms of the main story, Kvothe is a talented magician/musician who keeps pleading poverty when he really isn't (not being rich is not the same as being poor. Once he's got that room at the tavern, he knows where his next meal is coming from). Then he goes from virgin to sex god in the most cringeworthy way possible. *This* is the Kvothe we follow round for 90 percent of the story, the one we're supposed to cheer for, not the burnt out old one at the tavern: if the old one is self-aggrandising, does it really matter, since from our perspective as readers, we're still being forced to wade through the first-person-perspective of a Gary Stu?I actually quite liked, or rather, accepted, that he became a "sex god", as he was bitter towards Denna and used his growing notoriety to attract women (just as most celebrities do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizerd Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 delete post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I think most of the criticism of Kvothe stems from a personal dislike of the character as written. Disliking one character in an ensemble cast of POVs won't ruin one's experience; but let's face it, these books are all about him. If you don't like the character you can't be expected to like the books.I don't necessarily agree with this assessment. I find Kvoth to be not very likable at all. He is arrogant and has a shady moral compass. That does not keep me from enjoying his story, it just gives me a different perspective on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Of Mid Afternoon Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 kvothe screwwed stuff up all the time. How often do you read 'half a loaf is better than none.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizLXIV Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 It took me a few days to finish the first one and about half a year to get through the second. I don't really care about Kvothe that much, and it has nothing to do with him being too talented. My issue is with his thoughts and reactions in that they lack complexity. He just doesn't read like a person. He has a set of characteristics that come into effect without variation given circumstances and he never really altars much or grows, so there isn't much interesting character development to read about either. Some perhaps in the first book, but my memory is tainted by the lacklustre mess that was the second. His relationship with Denna reads like fan fiction. It's actually fitting since his love interest reminds of my favorite type of OOC, from the naturally red lips to her dark ~mysterious past and forever unattainability to men. And their banter is cringeworthy.What I do like about the series are the secondary characters, Devi, Elodin, Auri, Sim and the other one, Tempi, Maer... are colourful enough to keep me interested. And the Amir/Chandrian mystery, namers vs. shapers are all pretty cool stuff. It's not brilliant book by any means. While the prose is pretty and the dialogue often horrible, it's an enjoyable experience. That's if you skim the Denna dates and excessive whining, older women sex, overly stretched roadside sequences, saving damsels or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Of Mid Afternoon Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I found the second book to be more entertaining... once he got away from the university for a while. That was getting a bit old. Cinder, Fae, Adem, fake Ruh, return to Elodin. That was really interesting. Though I was disappointed when narrator Kvothe/Kote got beat up by bandits. Can he do sympathy or not? He can't stop the mercenary/skinchanger, can't even start a fire, can't do anything to the soldiers, yet if we go back to the very begining, he causes glass bottles to shatter presumably with a sympathetic link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star Pate Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I started this book a few days ago. I'm about 50 pages in right now. I appreciate a more dimensional, realistically flawed protagonist like Quothe who is building his story instead of having his reputation precede him. He reminds me of a more brooding, worn out version of Roland from the Gunslinger/Dark Tower series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Of Mid Afternoon Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I wish this thread were more popular. Alas.I was thinking ... we are told that Kvothe has killed an Angel...On that point... the angel killing... I presume that means he did find the Amyr - the original Amyr, as described by Skarpi in his 2nd story - and through some unfortunate turn of events ended up killing one of them.Probably not Selitos, almost certainly not Tehlu but perhaps Kirel, Deah, Enlas, Geisa, Lecelte, Ordal, or Andan?Perhaps one of them went after Denna in response to her popular pro-Lanre song, and Kvothe tried to defend her? I get the distinct impression that she is dead from Kvothe's bitterness-tinged-fury and Bast's reference to having once seen her himself ... as if that is something that could've only taken place in the past because she is no longer alive in the present.Tenuous, but less crack-pot than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 One thing I hate in fantasy is unpronouncable names. Like 'Kvothe'. Its as if the author wants an unusual name to show its fantasy, very lame.I started this book but gave up after a few pages, like most fantasy it felt pointless; in future I'll stick with GRRM and Frank Herbert. Heck I'd rather read Jon Norman's hilariously offensive Gor novels - at least the main character doesn't have an annoying name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedGhost Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I wish this thread were more popular. Alas.tWMF thread is on its ninth iteration, soooooo that's pretty popular: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 One thing I hate in fantasy is unpronouncable names. Like 'Kvothe'. Its as if the author wants an unusual name to show its fantasy, very lame.If you're finding Kvothe unpronounceable the problem isn't with Rothfuss, to be honest.like most fantasy it felt pointless; in future I'll stick with GRRMHaha what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 If you're finding Kvothe unpronounceable the problem isn't with Rothfuss, to be honest.Haha what.I admit , my bad .'Kvothe' is clearly a name that rolls off the tongue like other great names from fantasy- Conan, Aragorn, Tyrion etc, I suspect many fans will name their son 'Kvothe' due to its clear appeal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I don't think many people will be naming their sons Aragorn either to be fair. Conan is an actual name so I don't know what you're on about there.Kvothe might not be a name that comes off as everyday and normal, but I really don't see the problem with pronunciation. I'm assuming you've never read Bakker, you'd have fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I don't think many people will be naming their sons Aragorn either to be fair. Conan is an actual name so I don't know what you're on about there.Kvothe might not be a name that comes off as everyday and normal, but I really don't see the problem with pronunciation. I'm assuming you've never read Bakker, you'd have fits. Well I do know of at least one Aragorn, however its true that real life use doesn't validate a name, and its a bit odd to punish a child with a fantasy name anyway, no matter how nice it is. It basically condemns said child to lifelong association with fantasy geekdom. However the appeal of names in fantasy is important, its no accident that ASOIAF is filled with great names... those names match the great characters hand in glove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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