Game of Thrones Renewed!

[EddieLarkin]

There's no way they can do that in 10 episodes. They're going to have to cut stuff, somewhat heavily.

Why exactly? What's up with all this discussion with cutting half the story out? CoK is 96 manuscript pages longer than GoT, which makes it about 6 chapters longer (relatively speaking, it is in fact 3 chapters shorter). If they fit GoT okay into 10, they can fit CoK okay into 10

[Abaddon]

Why exactly? What's up with all this discussion with cutting half the story out? CoK is 96 manuscript pages longer than GoT, which makes it about 6 chapters longer (relatively speaking, it is in fact 3 chapters shorter). If they fit GoT okay into 10, they can fit CoK okay into 10

Who was talking about cutting out "half the story" (not I)? Regardless, 96 manuscript pages is easily more than an hour of screen time, based on GoT. You want to cut an additional hour out of GoT -- which is already a very tight fit -- and see what it ends up looking like?

That's not to say they can't do it. I am sure they can, and I trust they will do the best job they can in the time allotted. I just think the cuts are going to have to be more comprehensive, and we might actually see some threads cut entirely rather than suffer everything to be compressed to squeeze it all in.

[EddieLarkin]

Who was talking about cutting out "half the story" (not I)? Regardless, 96 manuscript pages is easily more than an hour of screen time, based on GoT. You want to cut an additional hour out of GoT -- which is already a very tight fit -- and see what it ends up looking like?

That's not to say they can't do it. I am sure they can, and I trust they will do the best job they can in the time allotted. I just think the cuts are going to have to be more comprehensive, and we might actually see some threads cut entirely rather than suffer everything to be compressed to squeeze it all in.

GoT was 1088 pages making an hours worth of material 109 pages, so it's less than 1 episodes difference. Also as pointed out previously, they'll need a lot less in the way of exposition to explain the history of the world/rebellion, and the character histories etc.

[Brienne the Beauty]

Who was talking about cutting out "half the story" (not I)? Regardless, 96 manuscript pages is easily more than an hour of screen time, based on GoT. You want to cut an additional hour out of GoT -- which is already a very tight fit -- and see what it ends up looking like?

They don't need to do the episode 1 "Introduce all 1,000 characters" thing, so they can go straight to the action after a little recap. That saves time.

[Padraig]

There's no way they can do that in 10 episodes. They're going to have to cut stuff, somewhat heavily.

Sorry. That's not what I meant. I'm not saying that they will shoot everything from aCoK (no more than we will see everything from aGoT). I am saying that I expect they wouldn't transfer any of aCoK into S3. Everything we'll see from aCoK will be in S2.

Fitting aCoK into 10 episodes will be a challenge but it is doable. As people have said, some threads will go. I'm sure we can all pick a few that are unlikely to survive.

And as much as I love GoT/aSoIaF i'm wary about calling it a "great work of art". :)

[Abaddon]

GoT was 1088 pages making an hours worth of material 109 pages, so it's less than 1 episodes difference. Also as pointed out previously, they'll need a lot less in the way of exposition to explain the history of the world/rebellion, and the character histories etc.

Fine; cut 10 minutes out and cut another 5 minutes for character introductions. (I think that's a big overestimation in total, but still). Now find 45 minutes of Game of Thrones that you're going to cut out.

As Padraig mentions, some threads are going to have to get cut. IMHO, moreso than Game of Thrones. But still doable. (As opposed to ASOS which would be brutal to cram into 10 episodes).

I really need to dig up that thread where (someone) was outlining stuff that s/he believed could be moved to a S3 from ACOK, as without that, I don't have much of a leg to stand on :blushing:

[EDIT] Also, forgot to mention that we are introducing a *ton* of new characters in ACOK. No, not as many as AGOT, but still enough that it's going to take some time. I expect the "Dragonstone" intro scene is going to have to do what the "Winterfell" intro scene did, essentially, since we've got Stannis, Davos, Cressin, Melisandre, Patchface, etc. Of course, cutting out some characters entirely will make this more doable in screen time.

[Xenophon]

The number of pages alone doesn't say much about how many episodes each book will need, since a page of dialogue and a page of description translate differently TV. What matters more are the number of mini-arc and scenes in each book.

Also, since GRRM knows both his books and TV-writing better than any of us, I'll believe him when he says that 12 episode would be better, but 10 is doable.

[lokisnow]

I think ten is doable but I wouldn't be surprised to see it go up to 11 episodes. They're going to try for 10 episodes, and they can probably make that work, but I think HBO would allow it to go another episode if it's deemed totally necessary.

I do think they could do a season three part one and a season three part two scenario airing in the spring and fall respectively with 8 episodes in each. It would make sense, it doubles their opportunity to sell DVDs and blurays. :D

[Kalbear]

They did that with the Sopranos, but that was mostly to get around actor requests for money.

They could split ASOS easily. My worry is that this would make it drag, just like the Sopranos dragged.

[lokisnow]

The directing was very strong in the pilot episode, if you can't tell by the camera work, excellent editing (there were almost no evident cheats in the show), then it is evident by the outstanding high level of performances put forth on the show. Actors don't all just deliver a great line reading by themeselves, it's more a collaboration with the director and writers; casting great actors help, but an entire cast will never deliver 100% of the time without guidance and direction.

It is a lot harder to find television directors than it is to find movie directors. when movie directors do a television show, they always go overbudget. Much worse than that though is that they go over budget because they're incapable of working within the time constraints of television shooting schedules.

Directors are rare and in high demand that can shoot scenes with the right amount of artistry and invisibility, as well as sculpting performances from actors (and importantly here, children) within the time constraints of series television. In addition to this, HBO has directors they're comfortable working with and are confident in. And because of the children x factor (there are few shows that put comparable acting demands on the children) it would be in HBO's best interest to maintain the directors who have established excellent working rapport with the current cast, in particular the children. They may hire one different director for season 2, depending upon the availability of the season one directors, as well as their own internal evaluations, but I expect we'll see all the season 1 directors return for season two.

[Ran]

I admit, I found the first episode a bit mannered in areas. Second episode "drew criticism" because it's basically following a bunch of people traveling around, and that's hard to do -- I actually think he did perfectly well, and I know there are people who consider Episode 2 a favorite.

As to style, you know, Dan Minahan's ep 6 has some distinctive approaches to action sequences that made it stand out for me. I quite liked it, although at one point the cutting may have gone too far...

But for the most part, the direction is very good, even if one might quibble here and there.

[CryFenril]

If Season One goes as well as we are all hoping it will, they could certainly afford to do a two-hour premiere and/or season ender in upcoming seasons - thus preserving some more pages of detail-y goodness. I have no problem with them condensing book 2 into one season, especially if they can double up the time on the intro to get things poppin'.

[Kalbear]

If Season One goes as well as we are all hoping it will, they could certainly afford to do a two-hour premiere and/or season ender in upcoming seasons - thus preserving some more pages of detail-y goodness. I have no problem with them condensing book 2 into one season, especially if they can double up the time on the intro to get things poppin'.

Again, the primary issue is not cost (though adding 10% more to a huge budget is not that great) but time. Right now they have two writers, and they want to keep it that way. 2 writers writing 10 episodes (and they're doing it together, so it's more like 1) is very, very hard. Making a 2 hour ep is essentially another ep. That's apparently the central issue here - they don't want to spoil the writing with another writer being added to it, so the cost thing doesn't come into play.

[Whatever]

First. fuck yeah, renewed!

second. about the directing, there is just one thing that disappointed me.

when bran falls at the end of the pilot, the image fades when he's still halfway. filming bran who actually hits the ground would have had a greater impact IMHO

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I think they'd probably cut out the Cressen/Davos chapters.

You still have Stannis and Melisandre, but they only show up when Catelyn goes to treat with them.

But nothing beyond that from the Stannis view point. First of all, Cressen's chapter is impossible to do, as 90% of it was his internal monologue and it would make no sense to a viewer. This also eliminates the need to do the CGI shadowbaby birth scene which we all know it's going to look terrible.

This gets rid of enough material to turn ACOK base to AGOT length.

[Caligula_K]

There's no way they can do that in 10 episodes. They're going to have to cut stuff, somewhat heavily.

Nah. For all that ACoK is 100 pages longer, much more happens in AGoT, which also has the challenge of introducing the world and most of the characters. So much of the beginning of ACoK can be condensed, especially Arya's and Jon's wanderings. If anything, AGoT needs 12 episodes much more than ACoK. I think it'll be fine.

ASoS, though, could benefit from 12-13 pretty easily. Once again, though, even though ASoS is longer, there's a lot of set up/traveloguing in there that could be very easily condensed. If they do split it into two seasons, the first one is going to be pretty slow.

As for AFFC and ADWD... Well, we'll see when the latter's out, but I'm guessing two seasons (done chronologically and not split by characters) will be enough, though the first season might be slow. Three seasons would be ridiculous- can you imagine stretching any of the AFFC arcs out to thirty episodes?

Anyway, I'm just very happy the show has been renewed! Awesome news and congrats to the showrunners, cast and crew!

[Padraig]

So much of the beginning of ACoK can be condensed, especially Arya's and Jon's wanderings.

They could cut bits and pieces from the Arya chapters. The thing about Jon is that he is one of the main people in S1 but features less in aCoK. By cutting even more of his chapters, he will really drift into the background. You can say the same about Dany. From a TV perspective its not ideal.

The difference here is between those that want a really fast pace (which S1 seems to be delivering) and those that would like things to take a breather on occassion. The latter can be termed slow but then set up is required on occassion or we wouldn't appreciate the climax properly (I loved aCoK as it was. I never wanted it cut). S2 is going to keep up a really fast pace too it seems.

Three seasons would be ridiculous- can you imagine stretching any of the AFFC arcs out to thirty episodes?

Given that aDwD expands beyond aFfC, its more like 20. But yes, combining books 4 and 5 will be major challenges.

But nothing beyond that from the Stannis view point. First of all, Cressen's chapter is impossible to do, as 90% of it was his internal monologue and it would make no sense to a viewer. This also eliminates the need to do the CGI shadowbaby birth scene which we all know it's going to look terrible.

I'm not sure i'd say its impossible to do. That's what adapation is all about. And I would be surprised if they cut all that Stannis material. He is the major protagonist in S2, so only appearing with Cat would really undermine his story. If anything, its likely that the focus will be on Stannis and Mel rather than Cressen and Davos. D&D did say they liked Davos but you could make a case for downplaying him and keeping the attention on Stannis.

And I think we'll see the shadowbaby scene. It might not work but its the kind of creepy scene that HBO will love. It doesn't need that much CGI actually. Its just a shadow that we briefly see.

[Jonias Snow]

I agree that the travels and wandering of the characters (especially Brienne) are the weakest points. Many of the critics say episode 2 (traveling roadshow) is the weakest of the first 6. Usually in tv, they jump from point A to B and forgo the traveling portion of the character, or show a brief montage of travel footage. Because of this I can see Ary's jumping from K.L. to Lake, then to Holdfast. I would love more Robb and Jaime so I can see them developing their arcs, changing them to onscreen scenes (this replaces Ary's travels between A, B and C)and therefore giving those characters their necessary exposure for season two.

ACoK is doable in ten, Storms is 40% longer, so 14. I can see them splitting the season with a brief 5 week gap and fill that with a mini-series, so 9 episodes (Red finale, gap, then 5 ep. and Blackwater). Feast (shortest book) Dances (longest) are 9 episodes and 15, thats 24 episodes move some Dances to 4th season and you can split them 12 and 12 respectively.

I cannot see HBO stretching this to ten seasons, but maybe eight, cause usually there is a ton of stuff happening in the final act of a story (Winds and Dream), so if those two are Storm length books, I can see them spanning three seasons.

[doz Aemon]

While I absolutely love the Brienne parts of AFFC, they're a LOT less important than stuff like Kingsguard backstory, which has already been excluded from season 1.

It's about fleshing out the world, and they don't really have the time to do that in the same way in a tv series, so cutting them down a fair bit would be fine with me.

As long as Podrick Payne's still in the series...!!! :bowdown:

[Padraig]

I agree that the travels and wandering of the characters (especially Brienne) are the weakest points. Many of the critics say episode 2 (traveling roadshow) is the weakest of the first 6. Usually in tv, they jump from point A to B and forgo the traveling portion of the character, or show a brief montage of travel footage.

I agree with much of what you write. I don't think travelling in itself makes bad TV though. All the characters travelling can be a bit repetitive though. In the end, it depends on what they do while travelling.