Major League Baseball

[Myshkin]

Welcome to the last several years. I think the voters are smarter than that. But if not, rest assured I'll be (almost) as outraged as you guys.

I don't know, they kept giving Bonds MVPs he didn't deserve.

[Lord O' Bones]

I don't know, they kept giving Bonds MVPs he didn't deserve.

Are you saying that Halladay or Lee are secretly on roids? Or are you saying that there was a more dominant player at the time when voters had no idea about Bonds' steroid use? Either way, I will laugh at you, but at least I'm ignoring the part where I was talking about the Cy Young rather than MVP in the first place.

[Mack Kilimaro]

INSIDE THE FUCKING PARK

Suck it, Red Sox!

Rays up 4-2, Sox down 6-2. We could have a tie at the close of business tonight. This is fantastic. Lot of baseball left to play tonight, but still.

[Myshkin]

Are you saying that Halladay or Lee are secretly on roids? Or are you saying that there was a more dominant player at the time when voters had no idea about Bonds' steroid use? Either way, I will laugh at you, but at least I'm ignoring the part where I was talking about the Cy Young rather than MVP in the first place.

I'm saying that Beltre deserved the MVP in 2004, but Bonds got it because his name was Barry Bonds. The voters (MPV and Cy Young) will sometimes pick the big name over the most deserving player. I don't have faith (as you do) that the voters are smarter than that.

[Mack Kilimaro]

I'm saying that Beltre deserved the MVP in 2004, but Bonds got it because his name was Barry Bonds. The voters (MPV and Cy Young) will sometimes pick the big name over the most deserving player. I don't have faith (as you do) that the voters are smarter than that.

I think that the voting climate has changed since that happened, though. Felix Hernandez winning the AL Cy Young last year despite having "only" a 13-12 record is seen as a hopeful sign that some of the old voting patterns are getting flushed out. This obviously isn't universal yet, but, there is some evidence that baseball writers, collectively, are improving in how they look at things objectively.

You might also root for the east coast bias writers to split their votes amongst the Philly guys.

[Lord O' Bones]

I'm saying that Beltre deserved the MVP in 2004, but Bonds got it because his name was Barry Bonds. The voters (MPV and Cy Young) will sometimes pick the big name over the most deserving player. I don't have faith (as you do) that the voters are smarter than that.

Beltre: 48 HR, .334 BA, .388 OBP, .629 SLG

Bonds: 45 HR, .362 BA, .609 OBP, .812 SLG

You're on crack.

Perhaps you'd like to counter with:

Beltre: 121 RBI

Bonds: 101 RBI

Then what say you about:

Beltre: 9 IBB

Bonds: 120 IBB

Put down the glass pipe; I worry about you.

ETA: Don't make me bring up BB or SB's.

[Selmy]

INSIDE THE FUCKING PARK

Suck it, Red Sox!

Rays up 4-2, Sox down 6-2. We could have a tie at the close of business tonight. This is fantastic. Lot of baseball left to play tonight, but still.

Are you a...Rays fan?

[Myshkin]

I think that the voting climate has changed since that happened, though. Felix Hernandez winning the AL Cy Young last year despite having "only" a 13-12 record is seen as a hopeful sign that some of the old voting patterns are getting flushed out. This obviously isn't universal yet, but, there is some evidence that baseball writers, collectively, are improving in how they look at things objectively.

You might also root for the east coast bias writers to split their votes amongst the Philly guys.

I think Kersh will win it, Halladay and Lee splitting votes will help, I'm just not inclined to trust the voters to stay unbiased, especially when every time Lee or Halladay fart it's covered and dissected endlessly on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPN News, while the only reason ESPN covers the Dodgers at all is because Kemp is chasing a triple crown.

Speaking of Kemp, he just hit a 3 run homer. 38 on the year now. His chances at the triple crown are pretty much dead now, but he's still got a good shot at 40-40.

[Lord O' Bones]

I'll take your silence on the matter as conceding defeat. And while I respect the hell out of you, I can't respect that. So here are some more lol's.

Beltre: 53 BB, 7* SB, 2 CS

Bonds: 232 BB, 6* SB, 1 CS

(*Bonds is 15 years older.)

Also, East Coast bias has no bearing here. Last I checked, San Francisco is still West of Los Angeles.

My work is done here.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Are you a...Rays fan?

I'm an Orioles fan. So misery for the Red Sox is A-OK with me. Misery for the Yankees is even better but it's not happening at this juncture.

[Selmy]

I'm an Orioles fan. So misery for the Red Sox is A-OK with me. Misery for the Yankees is even better but it's not happening at this juncture.

As a Sox fan I actually hope they don't make the playoffs. They don't deserve it, whereas the Rays are doing everything right.

[Myshkin]

I'll take your silence on the matter as conceding defeat. And while I respect the hell out of you, I can't respect that. So here are some more lol's.

Beltre: 53 BB, 7* SB, 2 CS

Bonds: 232 BB, 6* SB, 1 CS

(*Bonds is 15 years older.)

Also, East Coast bias has no bearing here. Last I checked, San Francisco is still West of Los Angeles.

My work is done here.

The 120 IBB skew the numbers to the point where his OBP is kinda not his own doing anymore. The fact that he had less than 400 ABs puts a bit of a damper on his Avg. And yes I'll bring up the fact that Beltre had 20 more RBIs, because what good is a high AVG or huge SLG% if it's not driving in runs? And you're really trying to make a case for Bonds on the basis of 6 stolen bases? Admit it, if some one not named Bonds had put up those numbers, Beltre would have been MVP.

Also, I never said anything about east coast bias, so I don't know why you would try to refute it.

[Lord O' Bones]

The 120 IBB skew the numbers to the point where his OBP is kinda not his own doing anymore.

Sure. Pitchers are terrified of him so that's nothing to do with him. Gotcha.

The fact that he had less than 400 ABs puts a bit of a damper on his Avg.

And again.

And yes I'll bring up the fact that Beltre had 20 more RBIs, because what good is a high AVG or huge SLG% if it's not driving in runs?

What good are RBI? They are fantastic for a team. Not very useful as an individual stat. Next you'll be telling me W-L records are important for pitchers as well as far as individual performance.

And you're really trying to make a case for Bonds on the basis of 6 stolen bases?

Nope. Just pointing out the final indignity of your young wannabe MVP being effectively equivalent in a typically youth dominated stat as our old as shit actual MVP.

Admit it, if some one not named Bonds had put up those numbers, Beltre would have been MVP.

Not gonna happen. I'm occasionally an idiot, but not to that extent.

Also, I never said anything about east coast bias, so I don't know why you would try to refute it.

I think Kersh will win it, Halladay and Lee splitting votes will help, I'm just not inclined to trust the voters to stay unbiased, especially when every time Lee or Halladay fart it's covered and dissected endlessly on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPN News, while the only reason ESPN covers the Dodgers at all is because Kemp is chasing a triple crown.

Fine. Philadelphia bias then? SF probably has better cheese steaks.

[Myshkin]

Sure. Pitchers are terrified of him so that's nothing to do with him. Gotcha.

And again.

What good are RBI? They are fantastic for a team. Not very useful as an individual stat. Next you'll be telling me W-L records are important for pitchers as well as far as individual performance.

Nope. Just pointing out the final indignity of your young wannabe MVP being effectively equivalent in a typically youth dominated stat as our old as shit actual MVP.

Not gonna happen. I'm occasionally an idiot, but not to that extent.

I don't actually wanna argue here, my point is that I believe Bonds won that MVP more for his name than anything else, and that leaves me distrustful of the voters when it comes to casting unbiased votes.

Fine. Philadelphia bias then? SF probably has better cheese steaks.

Media bias. Bonds got a hell of a lot more coverage than Beltre in 2004, and Halladay, Lee and the Phillies got a hell of a lot more coverage that Kersh this year. Media darlings tend to win by dint of being media darlings. If Kershaw and Halladay had comparable numbers there's no doubt that Halladay wins the Cy Young.

[Lord O' Bones]

I don't actually wanna argue here, my point is that I believe Bonds won that MVP more for his name than anything else, and that leaves me distrustful of the voters when it comes to casting unbiased votes.

I don't blame you. :P But fair enough.

Media bias. Bonds got a hell of a lot more coverage than Beltre in 2004, and Halladay, Lee and the Phillies got a hell of a lot more coverage that Kersh this year. Media darlings tend to win by dint of being media darlings. If Kershaw and Halladay had comparable numbers there's no doubt that Halladay wins the Cy Young.

However, one last thing... I'm pretty sure the media hated Bonds by then. Because of the coverage Bonds got that Adrian didn't and Bonds' reaction to it. 'Cause, ya know; steroids.

[Paxter]

Nothing to say really except...

GO TAMPA!!!!!!

And go Baltimore as well!!!

:commie: :commie:

ETA: And yeah Kersh for the NL Cy Young by a country mile.

[Greywolf2375]

Nothing to say really except...

GO TAMPA!!!!!!

And go Baltimore as well!!!

:commie: :commie:

ETA: And yeah Kersh for the NL Cy Young by a country mile.

Yeah, folks are starting to call for Francona's head around here. Funny, I didn't think it was his managing that was making Beckett look like the StayPuft marshamallow man or have an ERA over 7 against...Baltimore.

One of the callers I heard this morning "I don't care about Gonzalez numbers or play, he's horrible, the worst player on the team."

[MercenaryChef]

Yeah, folks are starting to call for Francona's head around here. Funny, I didn't think it was his managing that was making Beckett look like the StayPuft marshamallow man or have an ERA over 7 against...Baltimore.

One of the callers I heard this morning "I don't care about Gonzalez numbers or play, he's horrible, the worst player on the team."

this is what i loathe about the market of boston and the majority of it's fans and know-it-alls (the fan i share my bed with absolved, naturally.) boston wins two fucking world series in a million fucking years and people start to act as if it is the birthright of the team and city. anything but winning the world series is now seen as a failure. sure, having lofty goals is nice, but there is reality to contend with.

and reality has a team that splashed $142 million over seven years on carl crawford whose numbers are simply laughable. reality also says you have one of the most inconsistent starting rotations in the game.

there are some things i simply love about boston. gonzalez, pedroia and ellsbury have been phenomenal this season.

but, for fuck's sake boston. gonzalez is a star player. his numbers speak to wins. wins speak to championships. firing francona will not help.

lighten up, folks. be happy that you are at least in the hunt for a playoff spot. do you recall those seven hundred thousand other seasons when you had no chance at all? the rest of baseball certainly does.

two world series in recent memory does not erase a hundred seasons of coming up short or not coming out at all. this is boston baseball. boston is not a dynasty. they are not the golden child destined for greatness.

the fans hate the yankees so fucking much, but want so badly to be them.

[TheBigTEA]

What a fun game for the Brewers last night despite the loss. It was nice to see the team, despite already winning the Central getting fired up.

As for the MVP/Cy Young hoopla...Kershaw has to win it. He has been unreal this year. I think Braun deserves the MVP unless Kemp wins the Triple Crown...which I don't think will happen now. That said Upton deserves a big shout out and also Prince.

I think the Cy Young in the AL is pretty clear cut. As for the MVP I think it depends on what happens in the Wild Card. Fun to see that sort of thing come down to the last few days though!

Bonds had 120 IBBs...that's insane! .609 OBP? WTF?! Less than 400 ABs and he still his 45 HRs? I don't like Barry Bonds, i never liked Barry Bonds but come on. His numbers in those later years were insane. And now we can assume for good reason too I guess. I am not getting into that argument, but Bonds numbers where just insane all around.

[MercenaryChef]

bigtea,

on behalf of brewers fans can you promise me that if your team wins the world series you will not become assholes? ;)

and nobody has hated bonds more than me. even i admit his statistics for that season were simply stunning. what i hate so much is that he has been able to summon real fucking tears in his eyes when he is questioned about being on the juice. is he a sociopath? does he believe his own sob story? he can fucking cry as if someone is truly questioning his integrity and honesty.

fuck off, barry. you, like so many others of the era cheated. i do not even care about that part anymore. it is your constant indignation about it all. you are just the kind of indomitable prick to carry this lie to the fucking grave with you.

the fucking man would have been one of the best players of all time no matter what. the juice just sent him into something that was like nothing the world had ever seen.

a shroud of doubt will follow him for the rest of his life. it will hang over each home run he hit from the moment he left pittsburgh. i truly hope he never knows peace. fuck him.