Major League Baseball

[Myshkin]

Ah, Ser Kirkham the Rattlesnake, Lord of the Sun's Valley, Warden of the Desert...I may have jumped the gun. I think there's a great argument for both, and it may actually come down to whether Tampa gets in or does not.

Obviously Arizona blew everyone's mind. That cannot be overlooked. But I think that there's an argument for Tampa because of the players they lost and that they do happen to be in the division with not one but both evil empires and may have caught one of them in dramatic fashion. They are both deserving. Good call, and tough call in my opinion.

Gibson wins it on the strength of that HR he hit back in '88.

ETA: Shit, D-backs score 6 with 2 outs in the bottom of the 10th. Bastards.

[Teng Ai Hui]

I just got confirmation that were there to be a tie between St. Louis and Atlanta, St. Louis would host the tie-breaker. I did not get an explanation as to what it was 'bout (ESPN fails).

I found an article on MLB's website explaining that St. Louis will host the tie-breaker, if there is one, because (as Lord O' Bones said) they have the better head-to-head record of 5 wins, 1 loss.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I might be wrong on this, but as far as I know, MLB and MLBPA have to agree to things like testing and penalties. Selig can't issue edicts. The MLBPA showed in 1994 that they aren't afraid to strike, an event that severely damaged baseball. Another strike in the decade without public support for his position would have killed the league.

You seem to be justifying and defending gross incompetence or willful ignorance. Just about every other professional sport had steroid testing in place at the time. Numerous amateur athletic organizations (The NCAA, The IOC, USATF) all had steroid testing in place. This is an illegal drug we're talking about.

[TheBigTEA]

I will give you this, Goblin King (and MC): Kemp and Kershaw deserve the MVP and the Cy Young. That is just my opinion, and I know that not all voters use the same metrics. I know a lot of baseball journalists would factor in W-L record (for the team). But I won't punish the two clear winners when there are no contenders. Sorry Brewers (and I hate you about as little as I could hate a division rival [i.e., you are not the Cubs or Astors]), but Kemp was more badass than Braun of PF. I'm not blaming him for the team's inadequacy. Besides, who's to say that Prince and Braun didn't help each other out. Who protected Kemp to the point of near-Triple Crown? There was none.

Kershaw....why are we talking about this?

Kemp? Look, the guy has had an AMAZING year....but for what? So his team can finish near .500 and 12.5 games out? For shame Trisky...for shame! Give him the Hank Aaron award, he deserves it, but the MVP should (IMHO) go to a guy who is playing for something. I would think you would be onboard with this considering Pujols missed one when he should not have.

Think of Fielder in 09, guy lead the league in RBI, had OPS over 1k, hit 45 dingers, batted .299 walked over a hundred times..blah blah blah and he didn't get a whiff of the MVP. Guy came in 4th. Why? Cause the Brewers stunk. That's why. Again, Kemp has been awesome, but I don't think he should get it. Prince, Braun or Upton. Even Albert has come on lately to literally drag the Cards back into things.

Brewer Fan, I know...but still =)

The Cy Young is more of an individual thing though, so Kershaw should get this running.

[kairparavel]

And if Kemp doesn't post those numbers, the Dodgers are so far back they're still in April. Maybe.

Most Valuable Player (to his team), not Most Valuable Player (on a team going to the post-season).

If the MVP got his team to the post-season, that is one thing. But one does not deserve it by virtue of simply being post-season bound.

[The Wedge]

Yeah - I think of it the same way as the Cy Young. Greinke (sp) won a Cy Young...on the Royals. Does that mean he didn't deserve it?

Cy Young's a slightly different beast, given a starting pitcher only has control over 1/5 of his team's games. It's tough to be 'valuable' in a Cy Young sense the other 80% of the schedule.

The gold standard for last place MVP is Andre Dawson's award. Dawson had 11 first place votes on that ballot. But that might not have come to pass if Ozzie Smith and Jack Clark had not split the other first place votes (9 and 3 respectively) playing on a team that won the pennant. Still, Dawson's HR total that year, coupled with his media-friendly story about the blank check free agent signing to Wrigleyville might have won it regardless.

Fact I just dug up... The other NL MVP first place vote that year went to.... Tim Wallach.

Needless to say, I am very interested in what happens in MLB tonight.

For sure. Go Cards!

[TheBigTEA]

And if Kemp doesn't post those numbers, the Dodgers are so far back they're still in April. Maybe.

Most Valuable Player (to his team), not Most Valuable Player (on a team going to the post-season).

If the MVP got his team to the post-season, that is one thing. But one does not deserve it by virtue of simply being post-season bound.

I agree, but if Braun or Fielder are not around for the Brewers? They are not in the playoffs. Which is the bigger deal? finishing 12.5 out and just over .500 or helping your team to the best record at home and the second best record in the NL and a playoff spot?

I have said if Kemp managed to seperate himself to a great degree (winning the Triple Crown) he should have taken home the MVP, but he isn't going to and his stats are not VASTLY superiour to Brauns. Braun has had the season he has had with the increased pressure of a playoff race while Kemp has not.

I will freely admit to being a Brewer fan and a huge Braun fanboy so my opinion is cleary bias, but that does not subtract from the fact that Braun is having a hell of a year.

Trisk-

I find myself rooting for the Cards to get in. NL Central power baby! Not to mention it ensures that the Brewers won't have to play the frikkin' Phils.

[kairparavel]

I myself am not trumping up anyone over anyone for MVP. I'll leave the Kemp campaigning to the Dodger fan of the Mercenary household.

I'm just not of the opinion that the MVP needs to or should come from a playoff-bound team. You immediately discount the contributions from players on all but eight teams that way. Seems ludicrous.

[Lord O' Bones]

Dan Patrick had an interesting take on the MVP today. He thinks no one will want to vote for Kershaw for 1st, and Kemp, Braun, and Fielder will all get a few 1st place votes. While many of them vote for Kershaw 2nd. Winning him the MVP in the end.

[Lightning Lord]

You seem to be justifying and defending gross incompetence or willful ignorance. Just about every other professional sport had steroid testing in place at the time. Numerous amateur athletic organizations (The NCAA, The IOC, USATF) all had steroid testing in place. This is an illegal drug we're talking about.

There's no point in continuing this. Congratulations, you get the last word, now just move on with your life.

Bones

Kershaw is getting consideration for MVP? I knew Verlander was, we had a talk about that a couple weeks ago. But this is the first I've heard of Clayton getting involved over in the NL.

Tea,

I kind of agree with you. The MVP becomes less prestigious if it's just handed out to the Best Stats, the stats have to go to supporting something. I wasn't very happy when A-Rod took it home in '03, even though it was a weak year for MVP race (Shannon Stewart came in 4th...)

But in the case of Kemp, it sure seems like he's keeping the Dodgers from being worse than the Twins and without any significant lineup help. The Dodgers aren't the worst club in their division, they're respectable. Kind of. ;) Brewers have Braun and Fielder - having two high-stat, high-value guys kind of diminishes the value of each as an individual.

[Myshkin]

My take is that the the MVP is given to an individual, and so shouldn't be dependent on a team record. You know what you get for leading your team to the post-season? A shot at a ring. I don't see why we should punish a player for the failings of his team. Put Kemp on the Brewers, and he's a lock for MVP; put Braun on the Dodgers, and he's got next to no chance to win it. Doesn't seem right that an individual award should depend on which team the individual plays for.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

There's no point in continuing this. Congratulations, you get the last word, now just move on with your life.

Thanks?

.

[Lightning Lord]

My take is that the the MVP is given to an individual, and so shouldn't be dependent on a team record. You know what you get for leading your team to the post-season? A shot at a ring. I don't see why we should punish a player for the failings of his team. Put Kemp on the Brewers, and he's a lock for MVP; put Braun on the Dodgers, and he's got next to no chance to win it. Doesn't seem right that an individual award should depend on which team the individual plays for.

Yes and no. If you have amazing stats and your team is still dead last and a laughingstock doormat, then you don't really have any value, do you? What did you do, make your team slightly less super terrible? A last place team with a really highly-paid superstar that can truly rake threw tons of money at someone to get nowhere, which is counter to the concept of value.

That's not the case with Kemp, the Dodgers aren't a complete joke (at least not for their record). Just my take on the award in general.

[Lord O' Bones]

Bones

Kershaw is getting consideration for MVP? I knew Verlander was, we had a talk about that a couple weeks ago. But this is the first I've heard of Clayton getting involved over in the NL.

On sports talk radio and even in this thread just a page or two back (by Dodger fans, but still.)

And Wow! what a play by Pence to gun down Uggla at the plate just now!

ETA: Cards are rolling, Braves (may their fans burn in hell) are treading water. We should at least get that head to head play off game.

Rays are drowning in Yankee, while the Orioles suck just slightly more than the Red Sox. Not looking good for anyone but the Yankees here.

Edit2: Holy shit! The Rays score 6 times in the 8th and are back on life support down 1 going into the 9th. Wow!

Also lol eternal Baltimore rain delay.

Also, also, Cards win...HAHAHAHA Braves.

[Kosciuszko]

And Cardinals take it. Great pitching by Carpenter. Now to watch the Braves game.

[Mack Kilimaro]

This is maybe the best last night of a baseball regular season ever.

[Lightning Lord]

Rays just tied it up with 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth!

[Tempra]

Let's hope this yankee "collapse" continues.... for tonight only.

[Paxter]

OMFG.

GO TAMPAAAAAAAAAAA!

Incredible. Even if they don't win, this has been an incredible game.

[Mack Kilimaro]

AHAHAHA EPIC TROLL RAYS