Tie-in Novels

[Werthead]

Anything by Lawrence Miles - Doctor Who or Faction Paradox. The standard of the seventh and eighth Doctor novels was generally pretty high, though there were some duds.

Miles is okay, though I much prefer Paul Cornell, Jim Mortimer/Andy Lane, Gareth Roberts and Mark Gatiss. The best of the original Doctor Who novels was easily Exodus by Terrance Dicks. This was hugely surprising, as Dicks was behind more than half of the YA, easy-readin' adaptations of the TV series, so him writing a blistering, adult and dark story about Britain under Nazi occupation was highly surprising (think of David Eddings suddenly writing The Darkness That Comes Before). Excellent novel.

Miles spends most of his time these days being bitter and angry towards the new series. Whether this has anything to do with a lot of the novelists being invited to write for the new series but not him is of course open to speculation :)

The Jedi Academy trilogy is terrible (although not the worst in the Star Wars EU), and the young adult Star Wars novels he wrote are pretty bad as well. His Dune novels with Brian Herbert got worse and worse, to the point where Dune 7 and 8 were (from what I've heard) almost unbelievably bad.

The worst novel in the Star Wars EU is Darksaber. That book is 110% Full Retard. Just appalling. It's worse than New Rebellion, Crystal Star and Courtship of Princess Leia. Combined. All of his Dune novels are fucking horrendous, though they get even worse as they go along. Much more than just being badly-written, there's the fact that he and Brian Herbert flat-out lied about how much Frank Herbert material they were using in the new books. This has led to both of them being ostracized by a lot of the existing Dune fanbase, and their books being considered non-canon.

Holy Crap, there were Babylon 5 novels. this is the first i have ever heard about this, i got to hunt these down. Does J.M Stracynski play a role in their writing at all. Also is whats covered in these novels official recognized as being part of the Babylon 5 History? Huge B5 fan

More or less. Some of the earlier books are of dubious canonicity, but the later ones all are. Definitely check out:

The Shadow Within by Jeanne Cavelos - the story of the Icarus mission to Z'ha'dum, featuring Anna Sheridan and Morden.

To Dream in the City of Sorrows by Kathryn Drennan (Mrs. JMS at the time) - the backstory of Marcus Cole, plus what Sinclair got up to on Minbar and what happened to Catherine Sakai.

The Psi Corps Trilogy by Greg Keyes - the backstory of Psi Corps and how the Vorlons introduced telepathy to the human race. The books also fill in Bester's backstory and his ultimate fate.

The Legions of Fire Trilogy by Peter David - the story of Emperor Londo Mollari, spanning the period from the end of the series to the dark future we saw in In the Beginning and War Without End. We find out why Centauri Prime has been ruined in the future and also learn the ultimate fate of the Drakh and the political situation at the time of Sleeping in Light. Essential, IMO. Londo's tragic story in the series itself finds its ultimate conclusion - and something of redemption - here. Plus Vir is totally awesome as well :)

The Passing of the Techno-mages Trilogy by Jeanne Cavelos - reasonably good. This is a 'shadow story' unfolding alongside most of Seasons 1-4, filling in a lot of plot holes in the series (some quite well, some highly implausibly) and explaining some of what was going on from the Shadows' POV as well. It focuses a lot on Galen, Elric and the techno-mages, but there's also stuff about Justin, Anna Sheridan and a few other elements of interest (for example, we find out the Streibs from All Alone in the Night were allied to the Shadows and would have fought in the Shadow War if the Minbari hadn't trounced them). We also find out why Z'ha'dum's defences didn't just shoot down the kamikazeing White Star in Z'ha'dum and how Morden survived. It's a bit fanwanky towards the end, but Cavelos is a good writer and makes the whole thing hang together. Though Galen Stu is rather tiresome by the end.

[Jon AS]

I think I read all of the of the old Battletech tie-ins back in the day, and liked a reasonable amount of them. Of course that was over a decade ago and the last ones were among the worse, so I'm not sure I would recommend any of them today.

The Eisenhorn Trilogy (Dan Abnett, Warhammer 40,000)

The Ravenor Trilogy (Dan Abnett, Warhammer 40,000)

The Gaunt's Ghosts Series (Dan Abnett, Warhammer 40,000)

The Ciaphas Cain Series (Sandy Mitchell, Warhammer 40,000)

Since the Gaunt novels have been mentioned I'll do what seems to become a habit of mine with discussions of 40k books and declare that anything by Aaron Dembski-Bowden is better than at least that part of Abnett's output.

The first two novels in his Nightlord's series, the dramatically entitled Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, in particular.

I've also heard great things about Paul Kemp, to the point where I'm reading his Erevis Cale Trilogy (Forgotten Realms) in a few weeks.

I've actually been tempted to read these for years, I'll be looking forward to your review.

[Spring Bass]

The worst novel in the Star Wars EU is Darksaber. That book is 110% Full Retard. Just appalling. It's worse than New Rebellion, Crystal Star and Courtship of Princess Leia. Combined. All of his Dune novels are fucking horrendous, though they get even worse as they go along. Much more than just being badly-written, there's the fact that he and Brian Herbert flat-out lied about how much Frank Herbert material they were using in the new books. This has led to both of them being ostracized by a lot of the existing Dune fanbase, and their books being considered non-canon.

I don't know, Wert. Darksaber was awful, but it had a handful of okay moments amidst the garbage. I still think Crystal Star was worse (and the YA novels they wrote were very bad, although they had the justification of being YA novels).

I think Dune: House Atreides was okay. Not a great novel, but mildly entertaining to read. The Butlerian Jihad novels, though . . . WTF? The entire human civilization gets taken over by a bunch of Internet Gamers who somehow hack every robot in the civilization? And then they get pushed out by Skynet Omnius? It's frankly amazing that they managed to sink even lower than that with Dune 7 and 8, but they did.

I suppose I ought to do some positive recommendations. Mine are

Star Wars:

Traitor and Revenge of the Sith novelization by Matthew Stover.

Labyrinth of Evil by James Luceno

I, Jedi by Michael Stackpole

Iron Fist and Solo Command by Aaron Allston.

Starcraft

Liberty's Crusade by Jeff Grubb. It's not a great novel, but very entertaining, and easily the best tie-in novel in the franchise. I particularly love how it shadows the Terran campaign in the original Starcraft game without incorporating bloody game mechanics actions (like what KJA did in Shadow of the Xel'Naga).

Warcraft

The Last Guardian by Jeff Grubb. Good Warcraft tie-in fiction, focusing on Khadgar and Medivh. Includes a very awesomely described confrontation between Sargeras (the Lord of the Burning Legion) and Aegwynn (Medivh's mother, and the Guardian before him). Seriously, read the description of Sargeras's appearance on Azeroth (including his description), and tell me that isn't awesome.

Star Trek

A Fury Scorned by Pamela Sargent and George Zebrowski

[Werthead]

Since the Gaunt novels have been mentioned I'll do what seems to become a habit of mine with discussions of 40k books and declare that anything by Aaron Dembski-Bowden is better than at least that part of Abnett's output.

The first two Gaunt books are weaker than the rest, but then they are fix-ups of short stories with framing devices that are a bit ropey. The rest of the series is superb, Necropolis in particular. The Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies are probably better for being focused and, to some extent, finite, with just the three Bequin books to come (starting next year, at last) and that should wrap up the Inquisition stuff.

I mean to get to ADB's stuff at some point, though definitely on a critical level his stuff gets more of a mixed response than Abnett. Though Abnett himself ranks ADB very highly.

[Jon AS]

incorporating bloody game mechanics actions (like what KJA did in Shadow of the Xel'Naga).

Woah, that sounds like something that needs to expounded on by those of you who have suffered through it.

ETA:

The first two Gaunt books are weaker than the rest, but then they are fix-ups of short stories with framing devices that are a bit ropey. The rest of the series is superb, Necropolis in particular.

I gave up at some point during the second omnibus, so I've read five or so of them. Necropolis was indeed the best of the bunch, but suffers from a massive plot hole in the setup of the siege (the Imperium has complete space and air dominance, which is conveniently overlooked) and also from the sense that the Imperial forces would just steamroll everything in their path if only they were lead by people as competent as Gaunt (which, really, is very much a theme running through all the Ghosts books I've read).

I mean to get to ADB's stuff at some point, though definitely on a critical level his stuff gets more of a mixed response than Abnett. Though Abnett himself ranks ADB very highly.

What critical level is that? GW certainly ranks him pretty damn highly (admittedly, not the greatest standard), considering he is one of the small group of core Horus Heresy writers.

I just think his prose, characterization and plotting is simply better than any other Black Library author I've tried so far. I half suspected it might have a lot to do with the books I'd read being about villains (Word Bearers and Nightlords respectively) and having to make them somewhat sympathetic to the reader, but he even makes the Black Templars in Hellsreach interesting.

Admittedly, the plotting in that particular book is at least as predictable as Necropolis (especially since the outcome of the third war for Armageddon is well known to anyone familiar with the background), but at least the setup for the siege makes sense. ;)

[Grack21]

Even compared to Traviss's wankery? Or the awful New Rebellion, Courtship of Princess Leia, and Crystal Star? Crystal Star is probably the worst.

I like Travis' work. The Clone War era stuff mostly. The other 3 are pretty awful, but are practically of Shakespearean quality compared to the filth Anderson shits onto a page. Fuck, I read better Predator tie in novels when I was growing up.

The guy who got his ass kicked by a blind man in Return of the Jedi?

He's possibly the most over-rated Star Wars character in the EU, and we can thank Traviss and her Mandalorian wankery for that.

Bullshit. X1000. Bobba Fett was a hugely popular Star Wars character way before the first Zahn novels where ever published. She may be a Fettophile, but blaming the Fett popularity on her ignores the way linear time works.

I'm not surprised. Traviss fans aren't exactly rational thinkers.

Yeah, and her detractors has been known to make death threats on youtube.

[Noroldis]

For Star Wars

Best:

Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy, as well as Specter of the Past and Vision of the Future (the latter being a good cut-off point if you're not interested in the New Jedi Order series and beyond)

Matthew Stover's 4 novels (Shatterpoint, Revenge of the Sith novelization, Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor, Traitor)

Michael Stackpole and Aaron Allston's X-Wing series (9 novels so far, with a tenth on the way next year)

Worst:

Anything by Kevin J. Anderson. This applies no matter what franchise one is talking about.

All of Karen Traviss's books except for the first Republic Commando one, where there wasn't nearly so much "Mandos Are Teh Best, Jedi Totally Suck" crap as in her later works.

[ICE CROW]

Miles is okay, though I much prefer Paul Cornell, Jim Mortimer/Andy Lane, Gareth Roberts and Mark Gatiss. The best of the original Doctor Who novels was easily Exodus by Terrance Dicks. This was hugely surprising, as Dicks was behind more than half of the YA, easy-readin' adaptations of the TV series, so him writing a blistering, adult and dark story about Britain under Nazi occupation was highly surprising (think of David Eddings suddenly writing The Darkness That Comes Before). Excellent novel.

Miles spends most of his time these days being bitter and angry towards the new series. Whether this has anything to do with a lot of the novelists being invited to write for the new series but not him is of course open to speculation :)

The worst novel in the Star Wars EU is Darksaber. That book is 110% Full Retard. Just appalling. It's worse than New Rebellion, Crystal Star and Courtship of Princess Leia. Combined. All of his Dune novels are fucking horrendous, though they get even worse as they go along. Much more than just being badly-written, there's the fact that he and Brian Herbert flat-out lied about how much Frank Herbert material they were using in the new books. This has led to both of them being ostracized by a lot of the existing Dune fanbase, and their books being considered non-canon.

More or less. Some of the earlier books are of dubious canonicity, but the later ones all are. Definitely check out:

The Shadow Within by Jeanne Cavelos - the story of the Icarus mission to Z'ha'dum, featuring Anna Sheridan and Morden.

To Dream in the City of Sorrows by Kathryn Drennan (Mrs. JMS at the time) - the backstory of Marcus Cole, plus what Sinclair got up to on Minbar and what happened to Catherine Sakai.

The Psi Corps Trilogy by Greg Keyes - the backstory of Psi Corps and how the Vorlons introduced telepathy to the human race. The books also fill in Bester's backstory and his ultimate fate.

The Legions of Fire Trilogy by Peter David - the story of Emperor Londo Mollari, spanning the period from the end of the series to the dark future we saw in In the Beginning and War Without End. We find out why Centauri Prime has been ruined in the future and also learn the ultimate fate of the Drakh and the political situation at the time of Sleeping in Light. Essential, IMO. Londo's tragic story in the series itself finds its ultimate conclusion - and something of redemption - here. Plus Vir is totally awesome as well :)

The Passing of the Techno-mages Trilogy by Jeanne Cavelos - reasonably good. This is a 'shadow story' unfolding alongside most of Seasons 1-4, filling in a lot of plot holes in the series (some quite well, some highly implausibly) and explaining some of what was going on from the Shadows' POV as well. It focuses a lot on Galen, Elric and the techno-mages, but there's also stuff about Justin, Anna Sheridan and a few other elements of interest (for example, we find out the Streibs from All Alone in the Night were allied to the Shadows and would have fought in the Shadow War if the Minbari hadn't trounced them). We also find out why Z'ha'dum's defences didn't just shoot down the kamikazeing White Star in Z'ha'dum and how Morden survived. It's a bit fanwanky towards the end, but Cavelos is a good writer and makes the whole thing hang together. Though Galen Stu is rather tiresome by the end.

this just made my day, i am gonna hunt these books down fiercely i hope they have ebook editions.To Dream in the City of Sorrows, sounds like the one im gonna enjoy the most. Marcus Cole was such an amazing character. JMS said in the DVD commentary that he would have never gotten rid of Marcus had he known at the time that the actress playing Ivanova was gonna leave at the end of the fourth season. I always wondered, what season 5 would have been like with Marcus.

The Shadows Within also sounds amazing, Love him or hate him Morden was a hell of a character. Also it will be nice to find out why Justin was chosen as Sheridans oppiste and Equal and why he was chosen to speak for the humans on Zha'Dum.

I think Lond Mollari is one of the most tragic characters ive ever seen in any medium. You begin thinking of him as a joke, then you hate him for his actions. But at the end you begin to care about him and the good he is trying to do and to see hos fate is heartbreaking. Legions of Fire trilogy sounds amazing, it sounds like this would have made an more interesting new B5 movie than the horrible the Lost Tales from a few years ago.

[felice]

Miles is okay, though I much prefer Paul Cornell, Jim Mortimer/Andy Lane, Gareth Roberts and Mark Gatiss.

I'd say Cornell was the star of the Seventh Doctor novels to a similar degree that Miles was for the Eight Doctor, though their styles are quite different. The others are good solid writers but not real standouts to me (though I thought Mortimore's Babylon 5 novel was one of the best!). I preferred Ben Aaronovitch (I must get hold of Rivers of London), Kate Orman, Lance Parkin...

The best of the original Doctor Who novels was easily Exodus by Terrance Dicks. This was hugely surprising, as Dicks was behind more than half of the YA, easy-readin' adaptations of the TV series, so him writing a blistering, adult and dark story about Britain under Nazi occupation was highly surprising

Well, it was certainly by far the best of the original DW novels when it was first published, but given that it was only the second, that's not saying much 8) It's good, yes, and easily Terrance's best, but not that dark and adult (it's closer to Eddings than Bakker!) and I'd rate many of the later books more highly. Parkin's Just War dealt with the Nazis in a rather more adult fashion, for a start.

Miles spends most of his time these days being bitter and angry towards the new series.

Well, he writes occasional blog posts, which are frequently (but by no means always) critical of the new series but often make legitimate points (whether you agree with him or not) and are usually highly entertaining (if you appreciate his sense of humour). I'm not sure that counts as most of his time, though, and in any case has no bearing on the quality of his books.

[Spaceman Hobbes]

Yeah, and her detractors has been known to make death threats on youtube.

Do we really have to do this again(I love how EVERY tie in novels thread ends up this way)? People are stupid. People on youtube make the rest of us look like Shakespeare, Einstein, and Jefferson rolled into one super human. People and youtube stupidity really have no bearing on whether or not she writes good Star Wars books. That's up to her. And if she chooses to use every single EU novel she writes to retcon the mandos and the Jedi to force her point of view on use, I have a right to call her out for doing it. I don't think she writes good books and that's the reason.

And I think it's not rational to like someone's book just because they write about someone who looked cool, but failed to actually do anything cool in the movies. Seriously, he followed the MF to cloud city. He was a 1 off plot device who got his ass kicked by a blind Han Solo.

[Spring Bass]

Bullshit. X1000. Bobba Fett was a hugely popular Star Wars character way before the first Zahn novels where ever published. She may be a Fettophile, but blaming the Fett popularity on her ignores the way linear time works.

I said "over-rated", not "popular". Fett was just a bounty hunter before Traviss latched on to him - and an over-rated one at that. Again, ass-kicked by a blind man in Return of the Jedi.

Yeah, and her detractors has been known to make death threats on youtube.

So what? It's Youtube, land of the lowest-common-denominator in terms of comments. It changes nothing from the fact that her books (and particularly her Legacy of the Force books) are mostly bad, and horribly inconsistent with the rest of the continuity.

Anyways, back on topic-

I'm only lukewarm to Thrawn's stuff. He can write some decent stories, but he's also pretty minimalistic, and he has an issue with pet characters as well. With one exception, all his books are about Thrawn, something started by Thrawn, something affected by Thrawn in the past, or something Thrawn did (like the Outbound Project).

[Grack21]

I said "over-rated", not "popular". Fett was just a bounty hunter before Traviss latched on to him - and an over-rated one at that. Again, ass-kicked by a blind man in Return of the Jedi.

So what? It's Youtube, land of the lowest-common-denominator in terms of comments. It changes nothing from the fact that her books (and particularly her Legacy of the Force books) are mostly bad, and horribly inconsistent with the rest of the continuity.

Anyways, back on topic-

I'm only lukewarm to Thrawn's stuff. He can write some decent stories, but he's also pretty minimalistic, and he has an issue with pet characters as well. With one exception, all his books are about Thrawn, something started by Thrawn, something affected by Thrawn in the past, or something Thrawn did (like the Outbound Project).

He's been over-rated for far longer then you seem to think. Go read Dark Empire, published, in 1995, in which Boba Fett comes back from the Sarlaac pit because his armor is JUST THAT AWESOME. You can hate her all you like, but blaming her for Fett's "over-ratedness" is just silly. Hell, he had his own mini series long before Travis arrived on the scene. I think it was taken out of continuity though. Dammit now I'm going to have to look that up.

Do we really have to do this again(I love how EVERY tie in novels thread ends up this way)? People are stupid. People on youtube make the rest of us look like Shakespeare, Einstein, and Jefferson rolled into one super human. People and youtube stupidity really have no bearing on whether or not she writes good Star Wars books. That's up to her. And if she chooses to use every single EU novel she writes to retcon the mandos and the Jedi to force her point of view on use, I have a right to call her out for doing it. I don't think she writes good books and that's the reason.

And I think it's not rational to like someone's book just because they write about someone who looked cool, but failed to actually do anything cool in the movies. Seriously, he followed the MF to cloud city. He was a 1 off plot device who got his ass kicked by a blind Han Solo.

Hey, if you can make sweeping generalties about Travis' fans, then I can do the same about her detractors.

[Teng Ai Hui]

For tie-in novels, I've always liked Destruction of Illusions by Keith R.A. DeCandido (portrays Andromeda's escape from the black hole from the POV of the crew of the Eureka Maru and describes how that crew came together) and Quantum Leap 10: Odyssey by Barbara E. Walton (Sam leaps into the life of a gifted middle-school student).

ETA: See also Best Tie-ins.

[Ouroboros]

Dan Abnett has written some pretty good Warhammer 40,000 novels, and I hear his Doctor Who outpt is ok. Timothy Zahn is the reason Star Wars has a popular expanded universe in the first place, so he deserves all the props given.

[SkynJay]

I'm only lukewarm to Thrawn's stuff. He can write some decent stories, but he's also pretty minimalistic, and he has an issue with pet characters as well. With one exception, all his books are about Thrawn, something started by Thrawn, something affected by Thrawn in the past, or something Thrawn did (like the Outbound Project).

Seems to be the biggest complaint about him. But doesn't diminish his first trilogy. I also liked the second duet, though I felt at times he was reclaiming his characters and vision from the other EU authors we have already bashed. I didn't mind Outbound, because it was a semi prequel to his own works, but Survivor quest didn't feel necessary, and Allegiance was almost silly. Have not read the last of his yet.

[Noroldis]

I'm only lukewarm to Thrawn's stuff. He can write some decent stories, but he's also pretty minimalistic, and he has an issue with pet characters as well. With one exception, all his books are about Thrawn, something started by Thrawn, something affected by Thrawn in the past, or something Thrawn did (like the Outbound Project).

So Thrawn writes his own books? No wonder they're nearly all Thrawn-centered in one way or another. ;)

Anyway, Tim Zahn does have something of a fixation on Thrawn, but I forgive him that minor flaw considering the quality of his writing. Besides, it could be that Zahn writes so much about Thrawn because that's what TPTB at LucasArts want him to write. I recall him mentioning in an interview that he'd like to write a book about Luke, Mara and Ben when Ben is still a child, but that hasn't led to anything.

As for the minimalism, back when Zahn set about writing the Thrawn Trilogy, he was told to use the West End Games sourcebooks as background material, and that's where his minimalism comes from. And I'll note that Zahn is neither alone in that regard among SW authors, nor the worst offender (that would be Karen Traviss, who defended to the end her position that the Grand Army of the Republic, army and navy included, was composed of no more than 3 million clones).

[Werthead]

The Shadows Within also sounds amazing, Love him or hate him Morden was a hell of a character. Also it will be nice to find out why Justin was chosen as Sheridans oppiste and Equal and why he was chosen to speak for the humans on Zha'Dum.

Er, you don't find that out about Justin. There's a few hints and stuff, but not a huge amount more than what you see in the episode Z'ha'dum.

There's also a very cheesy bit in Legions of Fire where G'Kar and Sheridan (IIRC) are talking about the success of the Excalibur mission and they're about to reveal exactly how the Drakh plague on Earth was cured and what was going to happen next on Crusade...then they get interrupted and sidetracked. I wouldn't be surprised if Peter David had asked JMS how that was going to unfold, JMS refused to tell him (perhaps planning to refer to it in a future project) and David wrote that into the book (David and JMS have amusing mock-rivalries that they refer to in both B5 and David's old TV show, Space Cases).

[Grack21]

As for the minimalism, back when Zahn set about writing the Thrawn Trilogy, he was told to use the West End Games sourcebooks as background material, and that's where his minimalism comes from. And I'll note that Zahn is neither alone in that regard among SW authors, nor the worst offender (that would be Karen Traviss, who defended to the end her position that the Grand Army of the Republic, army and navy included, was composed of no more than 3 million clones).

Sigh...

That number came directly from George Lucas himself.

This is why I sometimes get twitchy. If you hate Travis that's fine, but don't blame her for things she wasn't responsible for.

[Spring Bass]

Sigh...

That number came directly from George Lucas himself.

This is why I sometimes get twitchy. If you hate Travis that's fine, but don't blame her for things she wasn't responsible for.

Perhaps, but Traviss's reaction to it was uniquely bad. Stover and Zahn used the minimalistic numbers, but when questioned on it basically just said, "That was the number I was given" and left it at that. Traviss not only defended the numbers, she actually wrote a lame short story claiming that the numbers were because the Jedi and Separatists were conspiring to exaggerate the war, and used the whole thing as an excuse to further bash the Jedi and promote the Mandalorians (while calling fans criticizing the numbers "Talifan").

[Grack21]

Perhaps, but Traviss's reaction to it was uniquely bad. Stover and Zahn used the minimalistic numbers, but when questioned on it basically just said, "That was the number I was given" and left it at that. Traviss not only defended the numbers, she actually wrote a lame short story claiming that the numbers were because the Jedi and Separatists were conspiring to exaggerate the war, and used the whole thing as an excuse to further bash the Jedi and promote the Mandalorians (while calling fans criticizing the numbers "Talifan").

Well he called it "her" position, but maybe I misinterpreted.

As for the Talifan thing, it wasn't fans critical of the numbers she called that, it was the ones who made the death threats and uploading videos of a representation of her being violently tortured. People like to ignore the ugly side of fandom.