2011 NFL Regular Season - Thread 4

[Stego]

I don't think anyone thought you'd agree with the assessment.

Does that make it acceptable?

[Kalbear]

Like how about that stellar performance by Joe Flacco in his last game http://scores.espn.g...ameId=311002033. They did win so we can call that a 'good"

Actually that also would fall under Stego's definition of 'bad', in that the offense only scored 13 points. The other points were all scored by the defense. It was a very fucked up game.

On the one hand I don't like dismissing any QB's play as not good solely because of a single metric like points or a win or something like that, but on the other hand he's got a point. While Cutler had good stats he wasn't particularly successful last night. Now, why he wasn't successful was mostly outside of his control; drops by receivers, no time to go through reads, always avoiding pressure and tons and tons of penalties. There are good reasons for all of that. But at the end of the day, I doubt Cutler would say that he played well just because they didn't do enough to win.

[dalThor]

So looking forward to it. A true litmus test for the Niners.

For the first time in my life the Lions have become 'a team to beat'. They aren't the be-all, end-all but it is nice to see them not playing like shit for a change.

I wish I could have watched the game but it didn't agree at all with my schedule here. I was at the last Monday Night game they played against San Francisco. It went to overtime and they won on a game ending FG at nearly 1:00 in the morning.

[Bronn Stone]

Does that make it acceptable?

Maybe, or maybe not. But it does pretty clearly make it 'not putting words in your mouth' if it is an appraisal with which you are not expected to agree.

On the topic of Cutler, there has to be some context. In the case of Cutler's game performance against the Lions Sunday night, I'd have to say that a 'regular' performance by a quarterback would have resulted in a half-dozen sacks, nearly as many turnovers and a trip to the hospital. When you face the most talented defensive line in the game and don't block the ends, you cannot expect a human quarterback to move the offense with any regularity. But somehow Jay came close. The team even scored a touchdown and got in field goal range a few times. They got first downs and generally didn't look hopeless, even though their blocking WAS hopeless. At least that is my assessment and the assessment of several other observers hereabouts. I'd say that is damned impressive.

[Jaime L]

Got some games fun matchups this week.

Lions-49ers will be interesting. Both teams playing with house money. One team undefeated, the other probably should be. The Lions have been shakier than a 5-0 record implies - they've needed huge comebacks in multiple weeks to pull out games. That said, think they'll simply thrash any team that can't protect its QB. That D-Line is fucking wrath. So how's the 49er O-line been? I'm guessing a lot better than recent years based on what they've been able to do.

Cowboys-Patriots has shootout written all over it. Romo gets all his weapons back. Welker's probably going for 150.

Eagles - Redskins kinda dreading this one honestly. Way too many people are writing off the Eagles. Also liked it better when people weren't giving the Redskins respect but then everyone in the NFC East starting losing so they became a favorite by default. All I know is the Eagles are still incredibly dangerous - and not to mention they put up 50 in a half last time they came to DC. This also has all the makings of a cornerned animal game - Eagles need a win here a lot more than the Skins and assuming they're not so riddled with dysfunction, certainly could play like it. Not confident at all. I'll be ecstatic if the Skins pull it out.

[Maithanet]

Got some games fun matchups this week.

This week is a weird mix of exciting and terrible games. Bengals-Colts, Jets-Dolphins and Jags-Steelers should be pretty dull affairs. And Rams-Packers...that's just not right.

Detroit-San Fran looks good on paper, but I think Detroit at home is gonna deflate the Niners pretty fast.

Dallas-New England is going to be high scoring, but the Cowboys aren't gonna steal a win in NE.

Redskins-Eagles is going to be ugly. Even if the Skins win, which they might, it's gonna be ugly. These two teams were leading the NFL in sacks before the Skins bye, and neither has a strong O line. It's the Eagles high risk-high reward offense vs the Redskins running game and Grossman. Unless the defense gives us points, I don't see how we keep up. But at the same time, the Eagles have been careless with the ball, tackling and pass protection thus far, so hopefully that will continue one more week.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Got some games fun matchups this week.

Lions-49ers will be interesting. Both teams playing with house money. One team undefeated, the other probably should be. The Lions have been shakier than a 5-0 record implies - they've needed huge comebacks in multiple weeks to pull out games. That said, think they'll simply thrash any team that can't protect its QB. That D-Line is fucking wrath. So how's the 49er O-line been? I'm guessing a lot better than recent years based on what they've been able to do.

The Niners O-Line has pretty much improved every week. Perhaps more so with run blocking, but they've kept defenses off of Smith's back for the last 6 quarters they've played. That being said, I think it's safe to say that the Lions D-line is the most talented unit they've had to face thus far. I hope our Offensive Coordinator was watching that game Monday Night, as it looks like the over aggressiveness of the Lions can be exploited in the run game to some degree. I'm thinking a solid offensive game plan could make all the difference in this one.

[Jaime L]

Detroit-San Fran looks good on paper, but I think Detroit at home is gonna deflate the Niners pretty fast.

Felt the same before this last week. Not sure how because I didn't watch the game but San Francisco just annihilated Tampa Bay, a team that played Detroit tough.

Redskins-Eagles is going to be ugly. Even if the Skins win, which they might, it's gonna be ugly. These two teams were leading the NFL in sacks before the Skins bye, and neither has a strong O line. It's the Eagles high risk-high reward offense vs the Redskins running game and Grossman. Unless the defense gives us points, I don't see how we keep up. But at the same time, the Eagles have been careless with the ball, tackling and pass protection thus far, so hopefully that will continue one more week.

Pretty much agree on all of this.

The things that give me hope is that the Eagles D under Juan Castillo remain truly terrible and that Jason Peter and Trent Cole don't play.

[Just a peasant]

Got some games fun matchups this week.

Cowboys-Patriots has shootout written all over it. Romo gets all his weapons back. Welker's probably going for 150.

Brady will get another at home win to add to his current at home record of 30 straight home wins.

[awesome possum]

But somehow Jay came close. The team even scored a touchdown and got in field goal range a few times. They got first downs and generally didn't look hopeless, even though their blocking WAS hopeless. At least that is my assessment and the assessment of several other observers hereabouts. I'd say that is damned impressive.

No to mention the false starts. The Bears had 10 drives in the game, and 9 false start penalties. They had 23 first downs. They were driven out of field goal range at least twice by penalties. It would be hard for any QB to not just avoid the constant pass rush your tackles let through but also overcome starting nearly every drive at 1st & 15.

The WR with the most catches on the team is an undrafted rookie. Add his catches to the WR with the second most and combined they still have fewer receptions than Matt Forte. I hate math, but all this adds up.

Of course, most reasonable and rational people who don't have an insane hate-boner against a guy they've never met realizes this.

And I forgot to mention management so inept that after seeing their safeties get burned for more big plays in the first 5 weeks of this season than they say all last year combined, decided to make a change. They released an undrafted free agent safety who was doing well on special teams but hadn't played a single snap at safety during a game, and replaced him with... an undrafted free agent safety. *vomits*

[DanteGabriel]

And I forgot to mention management so inept that after seeing their safeties get burned for more big plays in the first 5 weeks of this season than they say all last year combined, decided to make a change. They released an undrafted free agent safety who was doing well on special teams but hadn't played a single snap at safety during a game, and replaced him with... an undrafted free agent safety. *vomits*

At least you guys picked up Two Time Pro Bowl Safety Brandon Meriweather.

[awesome possum]

I think I may vomit again...

[wolverine]

The WR with the most catches on the team is an undrafted rookie. Add his catches to the WR with the second most and combined they still have fewer receptions than Matt Forte. I hate math, but all this adds up.

Of course, most reasonable and rational people who don't have an insane hate-boner against a guy they've never met realizes this.

So...it is evidence that he played well since he only throws to his running back?

I know you are trying to point out how horrible his WR's are but did they all drop passes or why did they only have that many catches? WR can't run routes, line can't block, yadda yadda yadda. When Kurt Warner was at the helm of Martz's system the ball was almost always gone in 0.2 seconds or so. And yes, he probably had better WR's.

[The Wedge]

WR can't run routes, line can't block, yadda yadda yadda.

So you've seen Devin Hester in all his wide receiving glory, have you?

He's a Hall of Fame returner, but catching a punt or kickoff is a totally different beast than remembering where to line up or how to run a route. The funny thing is listening to the announcers fawn over him like he's Mr. Excitement on offense, when in reality he's a below average to mediocre receiver at best.

[awesome possum]

So...it is evidence that he played well since he only throws to his running back?

Anyone who watched the game without blinders on saw evidence that he played well.

I know you are trying to point out how horrible his WR's are but did they all drop passes or why did they only have that many catches? WR can't run routes, line can't block, yadda yadda yadda. When Kurt Warner was at the helm of Martz's system the ball was almost always gone in 0.2 seconds or so. And yes, he probably had better WR's.

As I've been saying since the Martz hiring, it was a terrible move. Management decided to bring in a "name", any name would do, even one whose scheme doesn't fit the QB at all.

Instead of writing another essay-sized comment ranting about this, I'll just post this excerpt of a column that says what I want:

Sadly, the performance merely underscores how poorly matched Cutler is to the system in which he plays. He is a square peg in a round hole. Cutler is a thrower, not a passer. He's an improviser in a scheme that demands choreographed precision.

It has been obvious for some time that what Cutler does best, doesn't suit the offense. He's an athlete who can buy time with his feet, throw on the run and make plays outside the design of the system. The scheme is based on rhythm and timing and releasing the ball the minute the back heel touches down after a drop in the pocket.

Cutler lacks time in the pocket to make his read progressions, and the trust to throw without seeing the ball into his receivers' hands. He never has had great mechanics, but he has a gun for an arm and probably could succeed in the scheme if he had quality players around him. That's not the case.

When hiring a new OC, the Bears went and found a guy famous for stubbornly trying to make players fit into his scheme instead of trying to make his scheme fit the players.

As for Kurt Warner, yes, he did excel in this offense. But he also took such a beating that he spent three shell-shocked years from 2003 to 2005 in St. Louis and New York before he was able to fully heal (mentally as well as physically I imagine) and play with confidence and competence again.

[Bronn Stone]

I know you are trying to point out how horrible his WR's are but did they all drop passes or why did they only have that many catches? WR can't run routes, line can't block, yadda yadda yadda. When Kurt Warner was at the helm of Martz's system the ball was almost always gone in 0.2 seconds or so. And yes, he probably had better WR's.

Do you have some independent confirmation of this Warner number? I am not of the opinion that a human can take three steps in 0.2 seconds, let alone three steps and throw the ball.

No. Definitely impossible. Watching

, you can see a three-step drop is three yards. If you can do 15 yards a second backwards, you are outrunning Usain Bolt by a good margin.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I'm with Awesome Possum on the Cutler issue. That offenses' problems are more endemic that Cutlercentric. Take that drive early in the first quarter. The Bears got the ball down to the Lion's 25, then ran the same vanilla run play on both 3rd and 4th down. After clearly not making the 1st down yardage, Lovie Smith throws the challenge flag and burns a timeout challenging the spot. Terrible game management that had nothing to do with Cutler.

[wolverine]

Anyone who watched the game without blinders on saw evidence that he played well.

As I've been saying since the Martz hiring, it was a terrible move. Management decided to bring in a "name", any name would do, even one whose scheme doesn't fit the QB at all.

Instead of writing another essay-sized comment ranting about this, I'll just post this excerpt of a column that says what I want:

When hiring a new OC, the Bears went and found a guy famous for stubbornly trying to make players fit into his scheme instead of trying to make his scheme fit the players.

As for Kurt Warner, yes, he did excel in this offense. But he also took such a beating that he spent three shell-shocked years from 2003 to 2005 in St. Louis and New York before he was able to fully heal (mentally as well as physically I imagine) and play with confidence and competence again.

That makes sense. If you posted that stuff before I did not take the time to read it. I only casually watched the game as I was flipping over to baseball and making supper in between.

I just didn't understand how only throwing to Forte was evidence he played well as I thought the other posts implied.

Kurt Warner runs a 0.44 forty backwards, it is known.

[Bronn Stone]

Kurt Warner runs a 0.44 forty backwards, it is known.

Back in the day, he could stock the shelves of the entire grocery store in ten minutes. Backwards.

[Mexal]

This week is a weird mix of exciting and terrible games. Bengals-Colts, Jets-Dolphins and Jags-Steelers should be pretty dull affairs. And Rams-Packers...that's just not right.

Speak for yourself! Bengals - Colts will be an excellent game as chances are the Bengals will be down by 7 in the 4th quarter and have to make 2 beautiful drives to win the game. Can't get any more exciting than that!