[ADwD Spoilers] Jaime & Bran

[Rickon is FIERCE]

I don't think we necessarily see things so differently, just different emphases in some cases. Now after that nicety, I launch my attack ;) :

She actually didn't sleep with upwards of four guys. I think it has only been confirmed as two people for sure, Lancel and one Kettleback brother. And to be honest, she was a married woman and Jaime had no problem sleeping with her, so whilst I can understand his consternation, people in glass houses...

I think it's very easy to think that Cersei was the one in charge when really and truly what power did she have? She's been used as a marriage pawn by Tywin, given to a man who doesn't love her and spends his time fathering bastards and pining over a lost love, in addition to routinely raping and beating her. She isn't taken seriously as an intelligent woman and she's ruled out of ever inheriting Casterly Rock. In contrast, Jaime is Tywin's golden boy, he escapes his duty as heir by entering the Kingsguard, and his notoriety as a kingslayer earns him a feared reputation and grudging respect even if people sneer at him. He's able to follow his passion as a Knight and isn't required to suffer abuses in an unhappy marriage.

When you really compare them it's clear that Cersei's existence was no picnic, and so yes, she does try to assert some influence via Jaime. The problem is that her influence is so terrible though, not that she shouldn't try to do so.

As for her relationship with Margaery, part of it is jealousy, the other part real suspicion. She fears that Margaery might be the younger queen of her prophecy (try living with that over your head for all your life!) and that she may be turning Tommen against her. But the other reason is good intuition. There is something not right about the Tyrells, and Marg is hiding something, just that it may not be what Cersei thinks. Let's not forget that the Tyrells did indeed murder Joffrey, so Cersei's distrust of them is justified.

Cersei may be a lost cause, but I don't think she is, and I don't think Jaime thought so either. He was simply too hurt and upset over her behaviour to think rationally - but this is his weakness. He should have set aside his anger and gone back, but instead he leaves her to be victimised by Kevan and the High Septon. Honestly, I feel sorry for both of them.

Haha...counterattack! :fencing:

She slept with Lancel, two Kettlebacks, and I was including Jaime in the count.

I agree, she had no power over much of her life. But I was speaking specifically of her relationship with Jaime, where the power was all hers.

I'll give you the warranted suspicion of the Tyrells... good point, they did off Joffrey. I wish I knew what was in the works for them...

As to being a lost cause, I'm with iamthedave on that one. I don't buy her false modesty act she gives to Kevan one bit. It's even hinted that the lioness is just brimming below the surface...

And I must now request a draw, for the night is dark and full of terrors, especially the kind that go beep beep beep at 6:30 and force you from your bed to face the dawn.. :cool4:...great duelling with you, though, brashcandy...

[BrosBeforeSnows]

I don't think Jaime ever thought he actually wanted to be King, but. I doubt Ned thought that either. Jaime has shied away from leadership, much to his father's dissapointment, which has been made very clear. It's why he joined the Kingsguard (and to be with Cersei, but still) and forsake all land and title. He was just sitting on the throne for the hell of it - he's arrogant, and he simply did not care about the symbol.

Why do you think Jaime would be Azor Ahai, anyway?

Exactly. There are only a few examples in history, but countless examples in literature and philosophy of the "king who does not want power"; the reluctant leader. Granted, in history, most of the "reluctant leaders" were reluctant because they were unfit to rule. But the ideal was first romanticized by the likes of the Roman Dictator Cincinnatus, who reluctantly assumed power when Rome was threatened and ruled as a dictator, only to give the power back to Senate after the threat was vanquished (he retired back to his humble farm and lived out the rest of his days in peace). That was the archetype of a noble hero; the complete opposite of the power hungry tyrant. Ned Stark would've fit that model, had he not blundered his way to the chopping block in AGoT, and Jaime, given his reluctance to rule, would seemingly fit it as well. It's been made clear he's not power hungry, but we know, given the way he handled the situation in the Riverlands, for one, we know he is a capable leader. A philosopher might tell you that he's the guy you want in charge, rather than the guy who lusts for power... like a Cersei, or a Renly, or a Mace Tyrell, etc...

As for Jaime joining the Kingsguard... we know why he did it, but are we 100% sure we know why Aerys would've made him the youngest Kingsguard in history? Was it simply to spite Tywin? If so, why did Aerys hate the man so much? He was, by all accounts, a very successful Hand. Was it jealousy? Most likely. But was it jealousy over Tywin's success, or something a little more closer to home... like, say, his wife and kids? I'm not saying this is the case (he could've been totally oblivious to the fact, or could've simply had suspicions), but could Aerys have known that Jaime & Cersei were his kids? If he did, that may explain why he wanted his son so close to him... which, on first thought, may sound nice (i.e. ahh, how sweet, Aerys wanted to be closer to his son) but this might not be so tender and loving as it sounds.

When you read the Dunk & Egg stories, it's made clear that (most, if not all) Targs bitterly despise their bastard relatives (i.e. especially the "Great Bastards", Targ bastards of noble parentage on both sides... which is what Jaime and Cersei would be, just like Daemon Blackfyre, Bloodraven and Bittersteel... the original source of all the Targ's problems). So, if Aerys knew that Jaime & Cersei were not only his, but were his royal bastards born out of wedlock, I highly doubt he would've trusted them, especially Jaime (Egg makes it very clear that Maekar, for one, HATED the Targ bastards, i.e. "they're born of lust and wicked thoughts" [paraphrasing], which gives new meaning to the line "All dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes"). This would explain why Aerys would've raised Jaime to the KG (i.e. to keep an eye on his devious bastard, and to keep the next potential Daemon Blackfyre close at hand), while refusing to marry Rhaegar to Cersei at the same time. Even though Rhaegar and Cersei would've been (half) brother and sister, Cersei, being a royal bastard, would've been below Rhaegar's station. And if Aerys was anything like Maekar, he never would've married the equivalent of Shiera Seastar to his legitimate, beloved heir.

As for why I think Jaime is Azor Ahai... it's because I've always felt that he was a, if not the central character in the series. It was Bran's defenestration that really kicked off the entire story, and set everything in motion, and that would seem to imply that it will be their confrontation, once again, that will end it, as well. I think GRRM is playing with our sense of perspective, and is also creating a story that is symmetrical, and will ultimately come full circle. I'm not implying that Jaime & Bran's story will be the only story to do this, but I am suggesting it will be the most important to do so.

There really is so much symmetry to Jaime's story, that I simply couldn't find in Jon Snow's story, or even Dany's. There are so many similarities and parallels between the Targs and Jaime & Cersei (and their brood), that it is striking. Some people discount the Dunk & Egg stories, and I used to as well, but after reading them everything started to click. People ask why GRRM hasn't made them more prevalent if they are so important to the story, but I almost believe he doesn't want too many people reading them, or else they might catch on. Probably halfway through the first book (i.e. The Hedge Knight) I realized Jaime is Egg (Dunk is Brienne), and history is most definitely repeating itself (just as Tyrion said, "It all goes back and back, to our mothers and fathers and theirs before them. We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our own children will take up our strings and dance in our steads"... and when you consider that Jaime has been told by Tywin's own sister that he is nothing like him, it makes you wonder. Cersei thinks she is, but she seems much more crazy than cold and calculating to me. Tyrion, as has been said, is Tywin... and only Tyrion. Jaime & Cersei are a certain mad king's puppets).

[brashcandy]

As to being a lost cause, I'm with iamthedave on that one. I don't buy her false modesty act she gives to Kevan one bit. It's even hinted that the lioness is just brimming below the surface...

And I must now request a draw, for the night is dark and full of terrors, especially the kind that go beep beep beep at 6:30 and force you from your bed to face the dawn.. :cool4:...great duelling with you, though, brashcandy...

I don't buy her false modesty act either, but in this case I'm rooting for her. I think Kevan was a vile man and the High Septon is even worse. She was most definitely victimized though.

Sleep tight, and nice duelling with ya too ;)

[iamthedave]

I think Kevan was a vile man and the High Septon is even worse.

I find this an odd assertion.

The High Septon is given a magnificent crown of crystal and gems, and he gives it away to buy food for the hungry. When the Kettleblacks come to him professing utter lies in an attempt (by cersei) to have Margaery executed for false accusations, the High Septon pursues the truth of the matter and indeed he gets to that truth.

Isn't that good on both counts?

I don't really see how you can view Kevan as a 'vile' man on one hand and even think of supporting Cersei on the other. The worst thing he seems guilty of is not standing up to his brother.

[BrosBeforeSnows]

To clarify, the reason I say Cersei is "crazy" and much more like Aerys than Tywin is because I find her to be both paranoid and completely irrational. Tywin may have been ruthless and cruel, but he was VERY rational and calculating. Cersei seems to be cutting off her nose to spite her face, which is basically what Aerys did. I have a feeling she's going to start getting much closer to the pyromancers as the story moves forward. Just a hunch...

[brashcandy]

I find this an odd assertion.

The High Septon is given a magnificent crown of crystal and gems, and he gives it away to buy food for the hungry. When the Kettleblacks come to him professing utter lies in an attempt (by cersei) to have Margaery executed for false accusations, the High Septon pursues the truth of the matter and indeed he gets to that truth.

Isn't that good on both counts?

I don't really see how you can view Kevan as a 'vile' man on one hand and even think of supporting Cersei on the other. The worst thing he seems guilty of is not standing up to his brother.

All that proves me is that the High Septon is good at appearing pious and self sacrificing. I don't buy it. And as for that pack of hyenas he has around him called Septas, :stillsick:

Kevan Lannister is a vile man. He followed Tywin's orders to the letter, and probably organized a few of them himself. He also was instrumental in sexually humiliating his niece, a personal lesson learnt in the Tywin Lannister School of Sexual Torture for Women, Whores and Girls.

[iamthedave]

All that proves me is that the High Septon is good at appearing pious and self sacrificing. I don't buy it. And as for that pack of hyenas he has around him called Septas, :stillsick:

Kevan Lannister is a vile man. He followed Tywin's orders to the letter, and probably organized a few of them himself. He also was instrumental in sexually humiliating his niece, a personal lesson learnt in the Tywin Lannister School of Sexual Torture for Women, Whores and Girls.

And Cersei sent Falyse Stokeworth to be 'used up' by Qyburn because her husband failed to accomplish a scheme she set in motion and tortured the Blue Bard into insanity to make him confess to crimes he is absolutely innocent of.

I'm honestly perplexed by your stance here. Do you free her from blame for these things, or just not see them as being so bad?

Isn't 'vile' a good description for Cersei?

[brashcandy]

Isn't 'vile' a good description for Cersei?

Of course it is. Some of her actions were downright despicable. But does that give men who are supposed to be holy, along with her uncle, the right to abuse her?

[iamthedave]

Of course it is. Some of her actions were downright despicable. But does that give men who are supposed to be holy, along with her uncle, the right to abuse her?

The High Septon is Holy. Everything he does seems to be perfectly in line with the teachings of the Seven. Cersei is a vile, treacherous, lying, treasonous, murderous adulterer, who is in the middle of scheming to have the queen of the Seven Kingdoms murdered by proxy.

I'm not sure you can say that the High Septon 'abuses' her, especially given the walk of shame appears to be a sanctified punishment.

As for Kevan... what could he do in this case? I don't see how he abuses her. Is there really evidence to say he arranged her walk?

By all means criticize the religion, but it stopped Cersei in her tracks and made her partly pay for her legion of crimes. At least something managed to.

[Daemrion]

The rule is simple.

Anyone who wasn't a point of view character in the first book isn't a main character. The significance of the supporting characters vary signficantly though, with someone like Jaime being far more important than someone like Euron, or Victarion for example, but he is still a supporting character.

The main protagonists were all introduced in Game of Thrones, as POV characters.

Perhaps a twist on the concept of 'false protagonist'. And hiding the real protagonist until the end. I mean, GRRM's rather clumsy attempt at introducing Aegon as a protagonist may very well by a good misdirection to cover his real tracks. :P

I have to say I love this theory's parallels to Dunk/Egg.

[brashcandy]

The High Septon is Holy. Everything he does seems to be perfectly in line with the teachings of the Seven. Cersei is a vile, treacherous, lying, treasonous, murderous adulterer, who is in the middle of scheming to have the queen of the Seven Kingdoms murdered by proxy.

I'm not sure you can say that the High Septon 'abuses' her, especially given the walk of shame appears to be a sanctified punishment.

As for Kevan... what could he do in this case? I don't see how he abuses her. Is there really evidence to say he arranged her walk?

By all means criticize the religion, but it stopped Cersei in her tracks and made her partly pay for her legion of crimes. At least something managed to.

Please, Dave. The High Septon is as holy as Stannis Baratheon- religion is`a nice cover for him to carry out an agenda that he clearly has. As for abuses, I'm not just talking about the walk - the sleep deprivation, constant questioning- all this was abusive. Further, Kevan could have stopped the walk (or he was directly behind it) but he wanted to teach Cersei a lesson too.

All they did was to further enrage Cersei and probably make her more dangerous. I think Varys is going to be very surprised about the kind of "chaos" he thinks Cersei will unleash. At the very least she is not going down without a fight.

But this is a Jaime and Bran thread, so I'm done with the derailing about Cersei :)

[Evamitchelle]

He should have set aside his anger and gone back, but instead he leaves her to be victimised by Kevan and the High Septon.

But he was on his way back to KG. Now it's true that he would have gone back at once if she hadn't been cheating on him, but he still planned to go to KG and try and help her when he sidetracked by Brienne who very possibly gave him to UnCat and the Brotherhood without Banners to be killed/held hostage indefinitely. He went to Raventree because it was the last thing he had to do to complete the mission he'd been sent to carry out, and though I don't know how much time it took to travel there (probably not long according to the map) but the negotiations were over in less than a day because Jaime thinks several times that they have to hurry up so he can get back. Cersei was still in her cell when that happened, meaning there was nothing he could have done to help her. The only way he could have been useful was if she asked trial by combat and he fought for her, but he probably would have gotten both of them killed since he's pretty terrible with a sword now.

As for Kevan, he makes a rather terrible uncle that's true : he has no problems believing Tyrion killed Joff and having Tyrion executed/sent to the Wall, thinks Jaime wants to kill him, and makes Cersei go through a "slut-walk". His loyalty to Tywin is admirable (in a way) and I feel bad for him because his children were captured/died/were terribly injured but his treatment of Cersei is kinda creepy (does he even know about Cersei and Lancel ?).

[mrazny]

I can't resist, so much to comment on, i'm gonna lose track of some of the thoughts for sure...

I'm gonna organize this chronologically in Westeros Time, not ASOIF book presentation time. I don't believe AGOT Jaime is even the same Jaime as the Kingslayer, and isn't the same Jaime asked to be the youngest ever Kingsguard.

Twins are born, instantly connected. Even dressing up like each other to fool their parents. At some point early on, their mom catches them doing something that she doesn't want Tywin to know about, though not explicit they seem to be too young to be actually having sex. Tyrion is born, Mom dies, Cersei already starts torturing infant Tyrion, and every impression I've gotten is that Jaime was a good brother. Tywin with his mood change doesn't inhibit Jaime's Knightly desires, no real marks of Tywin's disapointment. I'm not sure, but I don't recall ANY Lannisters being KG before Jaime. Tywin himself never leads up front in Battle. I'm not sure anyone remarks on his abilities with a sword... Just saying.

(on a quick side note, If one accepts that Aerys could've Fathered Tyrion, doesn't one have to accept that Aerys could've fathered the Twins? Not even getting into the descriptions and personalities at this time, or hints of mismatched eyes... If logistically Aerys could've bedded Joanna for Tyrion, he could've beeded her for the twins. Both seem difficult, and I would not put any belief behind Aerys being the father of all three...)

I might have the timeline messed up, but I believe it's Cersei overhears or for some other reason believes that she would be wed to Rhaegar. She and her friends get the Maggy prophesy, Cersei KILLS HER FRIEND (and i think right here the taking Cersei's side over Jaime's should end), Aerys rebukes Tywin, some plan is made to bring Cersei to KL, Jaime fights spectacularly in a tournament (i want to say also at Harrenhal, but probably not), Aerys offers the KG spot, enough time is taken by Jaime to have some conversation with Cersei about it where Cersei plants the seed that if Jaime dons the whitecloak they would still be near each other, Jaime accepts, Tywin is furious, Cersei is no longer going to KL but stays in CR, but i don't recall if Tywin stays in KL at this time or immediately retreats to CR.

As far as I remember the text, it is only Aerys that treats Jaime poorly. Arthur Dayne, Barristan, et al in the KG accept Jaime's talent and he takes to them and their traditions. At some point he finds time to meet back up with Tyrion, they run into Tysha, the Tysha stuff happens, and IMO, Tywin who has probably battered Jaime on a number of occasions about forsaking CR uses shame to cojole Jaime into the lie about Tysha. If i had to guess, Jaime foolishly let Cersei know about Tysha, and Cersei was the one to let the cat out of the bag about it all.

Hearing Jaime speak of it, and with how brutally honest he is about so much, I believe that he took his duties very seriously, wanted to stop the Rhaella rape but restraining himself by Duty. Everything was set up to boil over with the stress that Tywin put on him, Cersei put on him, that he was willing to forsake his Duty to slay Aerys in a Righteous Act. And I believe him that he did not sit on the Throne as a Joke, Jape, Jest, or attempt to be King, he was soaking in all that he did.

I'm sure he was cocky, brash, and sarcastic much of the time, but I believe he was also these "redemptive" things all along. He's confronted IMMEDIATELY by Ned Stark, he of course only sees a brash young Lannister and already he isn't allowed to feel good about one of his first righteous Acts he took as his own will, not Duty, not Orders, not Family, not Cersei... Practically the first decision that was HIS was already shunned when it might have been the single greatest Good done by any character in the series.

Now you have a Tywin that sacked KL, a bannerman of his killing Elia and her children, and a KG that killed a King. He's setup to have people constantly snark at him and demean his very existence, AND he's confident brash and skilled enough to adapt and say to hell with their opinions, and can turn to his love for his sister to find acceptance in something.

Re: Cersei. She was thrilled by the prospect of marrying Rhaegar, she was even initially thrilled about marrying Robert. She OBVIOUSLY doesn't consider Jaime her everything. He's a pawn for her, a selfish girl willing to kill her friend, jealous of Jaime's manhood. From the start she USED Jaime's love against him.

Now go through 14 years of this... The Jaime at the beginning of AGOT can very well have always been the "redeemed" Jaime that was abused and neglected and turned into this Jaime who already sees it as him and Cersei versus the world. I took it as Jaime interpreting that Cersei wanted him to throw Bran from the window. So like his entire life he did it.

The Jaime that offered to catapult Edmure's infant son is one that is aware of his reputation, now limited by his lack of hand, sworn to not wage war against the Tully's, using his Reputation to his advantage so that he doesn't have to war with the Tully's. Whether he would've catapulted the baby...well thankfully we don't have that as evidence against Jaime at this time, but it's still remarkable to have that encounter Bloodless. This from the guy who brashly led the charge against Robb's scouts and got himself captured.

[Sister Goldenhair]

I read the OP (I'd heard this guys story before but only glanced at the OP because I thought it was the same recycled stuff). He has presented it a bit better here, but from some of the other ideas I've seen him write, he seems to read too deply into things.

To be honest, I have not heard any better explainations as to what the comet meant. And I do assume the comet meant something.

I do think Bran is now on the side of evil, similar to the OP suggestion. Where did the cannibalizing Jojen come from, but? He did not explain that.

I do think Jaime is destined to be something great, but I'm not so sure it's Azor Ahai. I am certain that title is for Melisandre to name who it is. It seems to be HER right to name Azor Ahai (so the story seems to be telling). She does not even know Jaime and will never met him probably. She wrongly named Stannis, clearly. And seems set to name Jon.

Jon IS a Targ bastard - does everyone at least agree with that? Then what does that MEAN for Jon? Surely it does not mean something simple like he gets to have Winterfel. It must mean something great, like he will be the one to lead a massive army on Kings Landing, be Azor Ahai, ride a dragon, something like that.

I think Jaime just wants to be a knight. A hero, but nothing more. Azor Ahai is not necessarily a king, but I think Jaime just wants to be recognized now as "Goldhand" - good deeds. Not slaughter. I think Martin has something in store for him like he will rescure Sansa (maybe even marry her if he wins her heart) or something like that.

I just think this is the rational path. I've only read the books once, and am starting again, but.

I have come to believe that Jon Snow is probably a Stark after all and might be interesting that his wolf is not near him when he is stabbed, where will he go?

[BrosBeforeSnows]

Perhaps a twist on the concept of 'false protagonist'. And hiding the real protagonist until the end. I mean, GRRM's rather clumsy attempt at introducing Aegon as a protagonist may very well by a good misdirection to cover his real tracks. :P

I have to say I love this theory's parallels to Dunk/Egg.

Hidden Targaryens, hidden protagonists...

[tearloch]

mrazny.....BRAVO. Well put. :cheers:

It took me a while to warm up to Jaime's character, but somewhere along the line I really sympathized with the guy. I totally agree now that Jaime pushed Bran out of the window to protect Cersei.

I also point out that in the last book, Jaime seems to have every intention of telling Tommen that he is his father. I think that point is often left out of the discussion, but it is key to how far Jaime has come in this series. He also seems to have broken out of Cersei's control. He is definitely on the path of redemption in this series, and I can't wait to find out what he does next.

And to all those STILL trying to defend Cersei, remember that the whole "slut walk" thing was brought on by her own actions.

SHE is the one that provided all the power that the High Septon now has.

SHE is the one that had one of the Kettlebacks kill the last High Septon, simply because he was Tyrion's choice.

SHE is the one that had one of her lover boys go the High Septon with the made up charges on Margeary.

Sure, you could call the "slut walk" cruel and unusual punishment. But, then again, Cersei herself IS cruel and unusual.

She killed her best friend as a child.

She used to try to literally twist her baby brother's penis OFF.

She plotted to kill the king.

She parented 3 bastard children with her own brother, and is still trying to pawn them off as heir's to the thrown.

She psychologically tortured Sansa, while allowing her monster of a son physically torture her.

She gives "friends" to a necromancer for pleasure.

She burns down buildings in rage.

She plots to kill just about everyone in the world.

Nope, I am pretty sure there is nothing GRRM could do to Cersei that would draw MY sympathy.

[The Mother of The Others]

Bran and Jaime are really the two main characters in the series.

Jaime is Azor Ahai reborn, Conversely, Bran is the "Great Other."

Bloodraven is behind the reemergence of the White Walkers, and is teaching Bran to control them. So, when the series is over, people will look in hindsight and say, "It's a shame Jaime didn't kill Bran when he had the chance"

The stumbling block for me is the idea of Bran as a super villain. Mostly because he's shown absolutely no signs of being one. And do you want your super villain to be so un-intimidating, in a world full of spooky sorcerers who'd also fit the role? So normally that's a no-go. But you've done something interesting by adding AA Jaime as an enemy for Bran, because that's someone whom Bran could be tricked into striking back at. This opens up the possibility that Bran continues to think he's acting for the good, but really he's striking at AA and Bloodraven purposely withholds that information from Bran. That way, Bran could continue being the child we know him to be while also acting on behalf of the Others. So perhaps this is what Bloodraven has done. If Bloodraven knew that Jaime was to become AA, then he might have been studying Jaime closely during AGoT and was watching Bran too as a potential greenseer..... then, when Jaime and Bran "met" the way they did (the drop), Bloodraven would have said, "Oh no, fate is already helping Future AA Jaime to wipe out the potential greenseers!" So Bloodraven stepped in and spoke to Bran during the fall, influencing him to ultimately come north so Bran's hatred for Jaime could be used to dupe Bran into opposing AA.

(But why do Bloodraven's 1000 eyes have to be the Others? Why can't all those eyes be those of birds and trees and animals?)

[nara]

As far as I remember the text, it is only Aerys that treats Jaime poorly. Arthur Dayne, Barristan, et al in the KG accept Jaime's talent and he takes to them and their traditions. At some point he finds time to meet back up with Tyrion, they run into Tysha, the Tysha stuff happens, and IMO, Tywin who has probably battered Jaime on a number of occasions about forsaking CR uses shame to cojole Jaime into the lie about Tysha. If i had to guess, Jaime foolishly let Cersei know about Tysha, and Cersei was the one to let the cat out of the bag about it all.

...

Re: Cersei. She was thrilled by the prospect of marrying Rhaegar, she was even initially thrilled about marrying Robert. She OBVIOUSLY doesn't consider Jaime her everything. He's a pawn for her, a selfish girl willing to kill her friend, jealous of Jaime's manhood. From the start she USED Jaime's love against him.

A couple of things:

The Tysha situation had to happen after the kingslaying. Tyrion was 13, so Jaime would have been 21 and the Aerys assassination happened when he was 17.

I agree that Jaime is the better of the twins, but I don't think Cersei was just using him. Yes, she uses him to do her dirty work (against Robert, Arya, too many examples to elaborate), but I think she sees that as being the same as doing it herself. In AFFC, she thinks about Jaime being her right arm, part of her own body, so it's natural to her that her right hand would wield a weapon. She's clearly jealous of his manhood and birthright and uses sex to manipulate him out of the latter. But whereas Jaime's thoughts of Cersei are almost all sexual, Cersei's thoughts of Jaime are genuinely affectionate (until they start getting on each other's nerves in AFFC).

Some examples (paraphrasing):

To Ned Stark: My Brother is worth a hundred of your friend

To Sansa, she recollects how Jaime showed loyalty by forcing his way into her delivery room to be with her

In her own POV, she remembers how Jaime offered to kill Robert when he cheated on her. Also, she remembers having to hide bruises that Robert gave her from Jaime so that he wouldn't do anything crazy.

To Tommen, she slips up and tells him he'll rule the tournaments like his father, showing pride in Jaime's achievements. Margaery calls her out on that one.

In her POV, she thinks about how sex is never any good with anyone but Jaime.

In ADWD epilogue, even when it's clear that Jaime's abandoned her, Cersei never loses her belief in him.

Jaime is reckless and confident in his fighting abilities, so he's unafraid of the risks of the relationship. Cersei is more cautious due to her paranoid nature and the potential risk to her children, but still can't resist Jaime. This actually suggests to me more love on her side than his, but is balanced out by the fact that he's more faithful than her.

By the way, it's appears that Jaime is the one who keeps their affair alive:

Cersei's willing to marry Rhaegar and even Robert for a while, showing a desire to have normal (non-incestuous) relationships. Her happiness at her wedding ends when she sees Jaime's unhappy face in the crowd.

When talking with Taena, they discuss men who say "yes" a thousand times even when the women say "no", and these men won't be denied. Cersei thinks of Jaime at this time.

Even Jaime says that Cersei never comes to him, but gives in when he asks.

It seems clear to me that they use each other (for a weapon in her case and for sex in his), but that does not mean that they don't have real affection too. An extremely unhealthy relationship, but a probably the most truly passionate one of the series.

[BrosBeforeSnows]

The stumbling block for me is the idea of Bran as a super villain. Mostly because he's shown absolutely no signs of being one. And do you want your super villain to be so un-intimidating, in a world full of spooky sorcerers who'd also fit the role? So normally that's a no-go. But you've done something interesting by adding AA Jaime as an enemy for Bran, because that's someone whom Bran could be tricked into striking back at. This opens up the possibility that Bran continues to think he's acting for the good, but really he's striking at AA and Bloodraven purposely withholds that information from Bran. That way, Bran could continue being the child we know him to be while also acting on behalf of the Others. So perhaps this is what Bloodraven has done. If Bloodraven knew that Jaime was to become AA, then he might have been studying Jaime closely during AGoT and was watching Bran too as a potential greenseer..... then, when Jaime and Bran "met" the way they did (the drop), Bloodraven would have said, "Oh no, fate is already helping Future AA Jaime to wipe out the potential greenseers!" So Bloodraven stepped in and spoke to Bran during the fall, influencing him to ultimately come north so Bran's hatred for Jaime could be used to dupe Bran into opposing AA.

(But why do Bloodraven's 1000 eyes have to be the Others? Why can't all those eyes be those of birds and trees and animals?)

I like your theory, and think that Bloodraven has definitely hand-picked Bran for numerous reasons, unbeknownst to him.

But "un-intimidating Bran" is kind of what makes it all work, in my opinion; Jaime the unexpected hero, Bran the unexpected villain. You're right though. There isn't much to suggest that Bran is "evil", per se, but that's where Bloodraven & the Children come into play (i.e. corruption vs. redemption).

Bran, in my view, would be incredibly easy to manipulate, much like Anakin Skywalker in the Star Wars films. He's "blessed with the Force", so to speak, but he has had a hard life, lost most all of his family, and suffered terribly at the hands of his fellow human-beings.

So, if we can accept that the Children of the Forest are actually working against the "Realm of Men" and are trying to reclaim Westeros for themselves, that would open the door to corruption.

My theory is it will start slowly... Bloodraven, or the Children will subtly suggest to him that men are evil and humans are ruining the world, while at the same time explaining how "in tune with nature" the Children are. I believe that he's already been forced to participate in the ritual cannibalization of Jojen (i.e. blood magic), and will only continue to grow stronger as time goes on. From what we know of Westeros, there really is some kind of magical power in human blood, and I wouldn't doubt that the Children know this. My guess is Bran will grow stronger, perhaps even very quickly, while being corrupted by BR at the same time.

But as I've said before, Bran vs. Jaime started it, and Bran vs. Jaime will end it.

As for Bloodraven's 1000 eyes and 1... They don't have to be Others, but it does seem to work when you think of it as "One Thousand (Blue) Eyes, and One (Red one)".

My biggest question about Bloodraven is if he is really such a great guy helping to fight the Others, why wouldn't Maester Aemon have mentioned him to Jon Snow, or Samwell, or even Commander Mormont? It doesn't make any sense at all. Bloodraven was sent to the wall with Aemon, and the two would've been cousins. Bloodraven was subsequently elected Lord Commander of the Watch, so you'd think Aemon might've remembered him... "Oh, Jon, I nearly forgot... My cousin, Bloodraven, is living in a weirwood tree out in the middle of the Haunted Forest and is leading the fight against the Others. He might know something about these wights, and all of these White Walkers. Never know. His services could come in handy"... But Aemon never said anything at all about him. Either he forgot about Bloodraven, didn't know what happened to him, or didn't want to talk about him. But whatever the case, it's a bit strange, don't you think?

[tearloch]

I guess its a bit ironic that Cersei thought of Jaime as her right arm, and Jaime seems to begin his break from Cersei once he loses his right hand......poetic I think!