From Pawn to Player? Rereading Sansa IV

[Caro99]

my internet left me for over a week, so i haven't been able to read thoroughly all the posts mentioned since we started discusing sansa's second chapter so i'll try to point out the things i recall best since them. i am at my friend's house writting this so i don't have that much time to explain my thoughts better, sadly. but i just had to come back to this thread after about a week of absence so this is what i came up with :) please all of you keep your fingers crossed that my internet will return soon! :(

tyrion's chapter were he is told he will marry sansa is hilarious to me when we see cersei having a fit at the propect of being married again and how she calls her suitors old squids and lame dogs. but as for tyrion, it is clear that the prospect of loosing casterley rock affected his decision to take sansa for his wife. he wants the lands, the keep the titles, and it's a lucky thing that the bride is a pretty girl. but thoguh he treats her nice compared to the other lannisters, it is very selfish of him to dash sansa's hopes with willas.

sansa spending time with the tyrell cousins must have been her happiest moments in KL since Ned died, since it doesn't seem like joff hit her at this time. she was alone before and missing the hound, but now the other girls make it up. it's sad that she is desperatley clinging to attach herself to other people since she is desolate like when she thinks of margaery as her sister. and all the bits with the hound are cool. she is sort of proud that she kissed him and as she is marrying the imp we have her recall sandor's face. she was refusing also tyrion's cloak IMO not only cause he was a lannister but cause she already had sandor's cloak. it would've been funny to have sansa's maids find the while cloak and showing it to tyrion. and sansa being fitted for her dress in heart breking. we notice that she is already growing up to be quite a beautiful girl, and maybe cersei deliberately decided not to give sansa new dresses cause she was jealous of what a pretty thing she was turning out to be..? and then to kill her hopes with the highgarden life she had planned (shows us how before LF she was a pawn which tywin moved to his pleasure, really). also, the wedding night is horrible. tyrion ought not to have had her undress but since sansa already knew sort of what was expected of her we might assume she is already starting to have her dreams of sandor? when garlan tyrell asks her to dance during her wedding it is really nice, and when joffrey tells her that he can still take her for his pleasure, it's horrible. i also think that LF didn't know anything about thealliance with willas till sansa told dontos and he told LF: sansa made a blunder here and also received the famous "people will only love you for your claim" bit which will hopefully mean that sandor will be the man for her one day. and to wrap it all when she is getting married and recalling how she had thought her wedding day would be beautiful as well as the bedding, it really shows how life in westeros is tough...

[Raksha the Demon]

It makes you wonder how innocent Sansa really is. I'm sure she has some idea of how things work, but it seems she's not really to clear on all the details. I can't see Septa Mordane being able (or willing) to really go to into details when it comes to what goes on in a marriage. There is only so far the courtesey armour will take you, too. Myranda Royce and Mya Stone may be helpful to Sansa since she could use a good helping of what's what.

@woman of war

Yes, this was my understanding too. If you are naked, you are also doubly exposed and vulnerable; even more so to when wearing clothes. This scene seems to be written in such a way as to wring maximum embarrassment and vulnerability out of it.

I didn't have the impression that Sansa had a great understanding of the mechanics of sex, at least to the extent of what happens when and what exactly she needed to do. I'm sure she had been taught the basics, and that she was going to 'flower' and later be wedded and bedded to a great lord or lord's heir; but probably Sansa had been told that her bridegroom would be older and more experienced and would guide her and be good to her. Sansa's mother and septa probably had thought, back at Winterfell before Robert's arrival, that they had at least a year or two to give Sansa more detailed instructions, and could wait to tell her more about wedding night etiquette until there was a date set for her wedding. They would also have believed that Sansa would not be wedded/bedded until she was at least 15 or 16 and more like 17, and by then she would have had a chance to make some friendships with other highborn ladies, including recently married ones, and she would get a certain amount of information from them - things she might not have been comfortable in discussing with mother and teacher.

Only as we all know, it didn't work out as Catelyn planned. She probably thought that she would have at least three years before Sansa married Joffrey, and she could talk to her in more detail about weddings and wedding nights later. And then Bran was hurt, and Catelyn was keeping watch at his bedside, and while she was keeping watch, both her daughters left Winterfell to go south.

Even Sansa probably did not feel a need to discuss the future wedding night and all that it would entail during those months at King's Landing when Ned was the Hand and her wedding to Joffrey was still years away. I'm sure she dreamed about it, fantasized about it, but probably in the most hazy and blurry fashion, without thinking of stripping down and who touches who and what to start up the 'bedding' process; since at that time Sansa was not even twelve.

I don't think Sansa was thinking about the details of the bedding, at least in the procedural sense, when trying to prepare herself for the hoped-for wedding to Willas Tyrell either. She was enjoying becoming part of the Tyrell family, having girlfriends, learning the harp from Garlan's wife, getting the dress, and then, bang! Sansa's dreams crash down around her and she's marched to the altar to marry the most physically repulsive man imaginable who also happens to be a member of the family that killed her father and is warring with her brother. All her new friends desert her; she has no old friends in King's Landing (unless you count the Hound, and she's not going to ask him about wedding night behavior even if there had been time), Septa Mordane is long dead; and Sansa is married against her will.

Like all noble-born girls of Westeros (and most boys), Sansa was taught that her father would find her a spouse. As Ned's daughter, since both Ned and Catelyn seem to want their children to be happy as well as comfortable and dutiful, she expected to be married, probably before the age of twenty, to a son of a great house, and to be wedded and the marriage consummated the same night even if she had a headache - Sansa would have viewed it as her duty both as a daughter of House Stark and to her future bridegroom. It was less brainwashing as tradition. Boys were raised to marry who their fathers chose for them, unless they outlived their fathers, and then they were still expected to make a marriage fitting their rank and advantageous to their house. Certainly not a fair arrangement; but many things about Westeros are not fair; it's the way things are in GRRM's world.

But Sansa is pushed to the altar in a marriage that for her is both personally and politically unsuitable, with no time to emotionally prepare herself for it. At least the betrothal to Willas was something Sansa agreed to, an arrangement to which she was a willing partner. With the Lannister marriage, all Sansa can do is choose, via Tyrion, which member of the family she hates and fears (with the exception of Tommen and possibly Myrcella) is she going to have to marry. Tyrion is the lesser of several evils, but he is still Sansa's jailor; just a more kindly jailor than Joffrey.

Is it any wonder that Sansa is rather confused and inconsistent in her reactions and actions during the wedding ceremony, the celebration, and the bedding? She was taught most of her life that her wedding will be a wonderful event, an expression of the love and pride of House Stark, her husband a good man who she can respect and admire. Of course Sansa is confused; neither her mother nor Septa Mordane ever taught her the etiquette of being a hostage bride forcibly married into the family that executed her father.

Sansa expected to dance joyously with her new husband, and probably his bannermen, her brothers, etc., at her wedding. I think she wants to dance because dancing will move her physically away from Tyrion. Dancing can also give Sansa, if only for a few minutes, an emotional release from the horror of her destroyed hopes and the misery that she is enduring.

I think Sansa's refusal to kneel during the ceremony was probably instinctual; the only sign of rebellion she could make that was dignified. She could not scream or struggle, that would not help and would be undignified; and no one cared that she was crying. But she could refuse to signify her assent in the acceptance of Tyrion's cloak of protection; and did. The only cloak of protection she has ever wrapped herself in was Sandor Clegane's, once when he put it on her (by Tyrion's orders, which is interesting) and once when Sansa chose it herself. She does not want Lannister protection; she wants Sandor's...

Bringing us to Sansa's conduct during the bedding. I found Sansa's asking Tyrion whether she should undress now, her wondering what she is supposed to do and when, to be sad, but definitely understandable. She would have expected to be guided by her new husband. Even though she's a little older and can fantasize about what it would be like to touch Loras Tyrell's naked chest, Sansa isn't yet ready or perhaps the type of girl who would fantasize about shoving her bridegroom onto the bridal bed and taking charge! It's only been a few hours since that dream turned to dust; and Sansa has not had time to totally re-adjust and think of how to behave with a bridegroom who has been forced on her. Sansa also has no reason to believe that Cersei's men (and/or maids) would not come into the bedchamber and hold her down if she attempted to shirk her marital responsibilities to Tyrion; or to think that Tyrion would not call them in if Sansa defied him - at least not until Tyrion himself frees Sansa from the conjugal responsibility she had, in the absence of any advice for her situation, assumed. To me, Sansa's contrary responses during the ceremony, the celebration and the bedding realistically reflect her own interior confusion. A lesser girl (such as me if I had been a 12-year-old put into Sansa's position) would have fallen apart during the ceremony and been dragged off to Maester Pycelle in hysterics. Sansa tried her best to show her opposition in public, during the ceremony itself, and then tried to understand, moment by moment, what was happening, what she should do in this very new and unanticipated turn of events, while experiencing great unhappiness and fear.

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

It's actually pretty sad that the only friend Sansa had at KL was Sandor....a grumpy, drunk when off-duty, guard of her betrothed.

She was there for about a year before BwB so I am sure they interacted on other occasions and maybe even had a few casual conversations that we weren't privvy to as they did nothing to further the plot. We only got the exciting, pivotal ones.

slightly Stockholm Syndrome-ish...another contrived, overdone plot device but....it works

and he wasn't her capture...wasn't even her guard....he was just....there

Still, he was the closest thing she had to a friend so it would be natural for her to miss him when he was gone

[Grail King]

Bronn married her

Not for LOVE, and how long will he stay married?

[Fire Eater]

Not for LOVE, and how long will he stay married?

I agree he didn't marry for love, but I don't think he plans on offing her. He did say he would raise Lollys's child as if it were his own, and that he would get Lollys pregnant with his own child later.

[Wouter]

Tywin's been working with Bolton by this point. He knows the man is ambitious, not loyal to the Starks, and probably not going to be okay with Tyrion getting all claim-grabby. Especially since he will be getting a claim of his own via the deal made with Tywin for Arya. No, it's not the real Arya. This doesn't matter to Bolton because he will make it work for him, regardless. Tywin knows this.

This what Tywin later says about Bolton:

“Perhaps Littlefinger succeeded where you and Varys failed. Lord Bolton will wed the girl to

his bastard son. We shall allow the Dreadfort to fight the ironborn for a few years, and see if he

can bring Stark’s other bannermen to heel. Come spring, all of them should be at the end of their

strength and ready to bend the knee. The north will go to your son by Sansa Stark... if you ever

find enough manhood in you to breed one."

Tywin doesn't seem to feel Bolton is much of a problem - I don't think he would rather have Bolton than Tyrion in Winterfell. He abhors the thought of Tyrion ruling Casterly Rock, but Winterfell is the seat of his enemies (so Tywin doesn't mind seeing a dwarf ruling it!) and even Tywin acknowledges Tyrion has a certain intellect - which is why he made him acting hand in spite of his clear feelings on the matter of Tyrion.

[Lyanna Stark]

I don't think Sansa was thinking about the details of the bedding, at least in the procedural sense, when trying to prepare herself for the hoped-for wedding to Willas Tyrell either. She was enjoying becoming part of the Tyrell family, having girlfriends, learning the harp from Garlan's wife, getting the dress, and then, bang! Sansa's dreams crash down around her and she's marched to the altar to marry the most physically repulsive man imaginable who also happens to be a member of the family that killed her father and is warring with her brother. All her new friends desert her; she has no old friends in King's Landing (unless you count the Hound, and she's not going to ask him about wedding night behavior even if there had been time), Septa Mordane is long dead; and Sansa is married against her will.

Very good post Raksha :)

Just one small quibble: at the time of the wedding, Sandor has left King's Landing and Sansa is alone in the Lannister/Tyrell nest. He only hears about it later, when he is wandering around with Arya.

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

Not for LOVE, and how long will he stay married?

marrying for LOVE is a rarity and a privilege few get. Tyrion didn't marry sansa for love.....it was political

[1234567]

The thing about this chapter is we that we see the last of Sansa's great hopes and dreams, her wedding, being destroyed. It is bitterly sad for her.

[Fire Eater]

The thing about this chapter is we that we see the last of Sansa's great hopes and dreams, her wedding, being destroyed. It is bitterly sad for her.

You could say that Joff beheading her father was merely the beginning of her nightmare, and she probably thought after the Battle of the Blackwater, with her new Tyrell companions and her agreement to marry Willas that her nightmare was at an end, but learned she was still in the middle of her nightmare with her marriage to Tyrion being the climax. She probablt has the feeling that her nightmare will never be over.

The Tyrell girls had no reason to abandon her, they were still staying at the Red Keep, and Sansa had done nothing to hurt them like I said in a previous post, so I won't repeat myself.

[brashcandy]

Raksha said:

I think Sansa's refusal to kneel during the ceremony was probably instinctual; the only sign of rebellion she could make that was dignified. She could not scream or struggle, that would not help and would be undignified; and no one cared that she was crying. But she could refuse to signify her assent in the acceptance of Tyrion's cloak of protection; and did. The only cloak of protection she has ever wrapped herself in was Sandor Clegane's, once when he put it on her (by Tyrion's orders, which is interesting) and once when Sansa chose it herself. She does not want Lannister protection; she wants Sandor's...

I really love how Martin has portrayed Sansa's varying reactions to three different "beasts". The first one she is exposed to is Sandor Clegane, and the nature of their relationship is a testament to the value of getting to know someone, and being honest and open with one another. After a while, Sansa is able to drop her courtesy armor with Sandor, and right from the very beginning he challenges her to be direct with him and to look at him. Sandor doesn't want the pretence or a charade with Sansa. On the night he came to her bedroom, he wanted to take her away, but ultimately leaves her in disgrace over his own behaviour. Whilst he is there, Sansa is confused and afraid, but after she sings the song there's that fleeting moment when she touches his face. This action signified care and compassion, and she was finally responding naturally to the physical connection he had probably wanted in the first place. Their relationship is characterised by a naturalness that is almost instinctual. They both seem to understand and get one another without words having to be spoken. When Sansa later seeks out his cloak and wraps herself in it, there's little need for her to articulate her actions, even if she could. Clearly she derives a sense of security and comfort from his presence, and his cloak symbolizes these qualities. Later, a more potent desire enters the mix: missing him and thinking that he kissed her.

Willas is the second beast that Sansa has to consider, and this is where she has to be a lot more conscious about the role she will play as a wife and mother. As she has not met Willas before, all she can do is imagine for now what there life will be like, but her willingness to accept him and make him love her for herself and not Winterfell indicates a mature appreciation of the nature of this courtship, and Sansa's fundamentally optimistic nature. She's been able to mentally prepare herself for meeting this man, and enjoys a relationship with his sister and other family members, which all help to make it easier for her to accept a man she's never met as a suitor and husband.

Tyrion is the final beast - and in this relationship there's absolutely no way that Sansa's compassion or optimism can save the day. First off, she finds him "even uglier than the Hound", and the forced circumstances of the marriage, along with him being a Lannister, erode whatever hopes there could have been that she might come to one day appreciate him as a husband. There is absolutely no ambiguity about her lack of desire for this man. With Willas we saw her accepting that this alliance was the best thing for her, and willing to make it work, but with Tyrion she accepts nothing. Not kneeling to take his cloak and making him climb on a fool's back to cloak her exposes the farce of the union, and is an utter rejection of Tyrion as a husband. In the bedding scene she might take off her clothees, but her courtesy armor remains firmly in place, and her body communicates the terror and revulsion she feels even though she is too afraid to articulate it. Tyrion's insistence that he could be like the Knight of Flowers with the lights off also shows how different he is to Sandor Clegane. Sandor insists on Sansa taking him for what he is, but Tyrion instead attempts to rely on illusions that aren't fooling anyone.

None of these men will ever be the Knight of Flowers, and Sansa has basically gotten over this requirement in a man. What she needs is the freedom - however limited- to choose the man she will marry and give her love to. The Tyrion match on this basis alone was never going to work.

[Grail King]

marrying for LOVE is a rarity and a privilege few get. Tyrion didn't marry sansa for love.....it was political

Oh I'm well aware of that. :)

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

what a totally squishy wonderful post, brash!!!

[brashcandy]

what a totally squishy wonderful post, brash!!!

You know me, I like all my posts to be squishy :lol:

[Maroucia]

@ Brascandy

I really liked your post on the Three Beasts and the Maiden Fair (sorry, had to)

I think you’re totally right when you say (on Sansa and Sandor): They both seem to understand and get one another without words having to be spoken.

That’s always how I’ve seen it. GRRM has to be a really good writer to be able to make us feel a connection between two people that not only don’t communicate a lot with each other, but also (on Sansa’s side), don’t think a lot about it, as we know it. Still, the chemistry between them is undeniable. You can really feel that they are inexplicably drawn to one another, as magnet and iron are.

On Sansa willingness to marry Willas and the optimistic way she was looking at it, I think we can definitively see it as her trying to project a part of her dreams into that mystery man…

As we all know, she was living a nightmare and had no hopes at all of seeing it end any time soon (well apart from Dontos, but that doesn’t count). Willas arrived as an unexpected saviour and she had to project some of her old dreams in him to make him attractive, and of course she was going to be positive and happy about this new prospect, because she knew it would take her away from the nightmare she was living.

But then, as she was about to run to her dreams… She got pulled back into her Lannister nightmare! Tyrion might not be Joffrey, but he’s nevertheless a Lannister. By marrying him, she still has to live in the same castle where all those terrible things happened to her and she’s still surrounded by Joffrey, Cercei and all those King Guards who don’t give a s**t about her. She was about to start fresh, but finally, got stuck in the same old unbearable situation… Tyrion does not mean change, he means continuation, stagnation.

Now that I’m thinking about it, isn’t funny how Tyrion is partly attracted to Sansa because he sees her as a way to escape his family, but by choosing to marry her, her condemns her to stay with them??

[Thrice the Hound]

I haven't replied to everyones posts to me, sorry. Thanks for the replies, it's really busy here. @ Brashcandy, your reply is HUGE, I'll try to get around to it at some stage to clear up a few things that I probably was not so clear on in the first place. It was not a very good post because I ran out of time :( but I was waiting so patiently to say my bit about Tyrion at the right time it's just the right time is in the middle of some big projects starting and I have no time to scratch myself. It feels a little like sleep, eat, work, sleep, eat, work :D. All my days are running into each other :D

I am probably projecting my dissapointment all over again onto these scenes because I thought Sansa and Tyrion could have made a pretty scary team if they worked together and I was half and half when the wedding was announced because of how I saw Tyrion at the time. Upset for Sansa because she is my favourite character and supposed to wind up with the Hound and marrying into Lannisters under the circumstances is just too much to fathom. Relieved for her too because I felt that finally she will be near someone (now that the Hound is gone) that isn't afraid to slap Joff around when he steps out of line and is likely to be able to force Cersei to cut the crap, but all that crumbled :(

Woman of War said earlier that if they had sat and talked to each other rather than getting naked they could have gotten along. It's one of those "what if " threads are in order. I can only imagine the possibilities of the trouble the two of them could have caused for Tywin and Cersei if they stayed cool and played the game, it would have been epic to watch as their game unfolded (I for one would rather be learing the game from Tyrion that LF, because at least I know where I stand with Tyrion) but it was not to be.

[Summerqueen]

About the Tyrells—I don't really find it difficult to see why they pulled away from Sansa. When she marries Tyrion, it seems like Sansa is stuck with the Lannisters for good. They must be wondering "what if she decides to make the most of it (because she wants to belong or because the Lannisters can put the pressure on her) and become a Lannister spy in their camp?" I think they are probably uncertain about Sansa's strength to resist the Lannister thumbscrews (psychological / all kinds) and can't risk being unguarded around her. It's not very nice, but it is rather practical. The Tyrells can no longer bring Sansa into their fold, and now that her loyalties have been forcibly realigned for her, they simply can't trust her to continue to resist.

This what Tywin later says about Bolton:

Tywin doesn't seem to feel Bolton is much of a problem - I don't think he would rather have Bolton than Tyrion in Winterfell. He abhors the thought of Tyrion ruling Casterly Rock, but Winterfell is the seat of his enemies (so Tywin doesn't mind seeing a dwarf ruling it!) and even Tywin acknowledges Tyrion has a certain intellect - which is why he made him acting hand in spite of his clear feelings on the matter of Tyrion.

Tywin would hardly say to Tyrion's face that he believes Tyrion's claiming Winterfell will result in him dying, though. That he focuses on the son of Sansa Stark while insulting Tyrion's ability to reproduce is clear enough. This seems more like evidence to me that Tywin doubts Tyrion can mange Winterfell and that he expects to hold the North for his grandson. It seems straightforward enough that he does not factor Tyrion into the equation overmuch.

Tyrion might not be Joffrey, but he’s nevertheless a Lannister. By marrying him, she still has to live in the same castle where all those terrible things happened to her and she’s still surrounded by Joffrey, Cercei and all those King Guards who don’t give a s**t about her. She was about to start fresh, but finally, got stuck in the same old unbearable situation… Tyrion does not mean change, he means continuation, stagnation.

I agree wholeheartedly with the thought here. Tyrion represents more of the same. He cannot even get his family's respect for himself. No way he could manage getting his family to respect Sansa just because she married him.

[brashcandy]

About the Tyrells—I don't really find it difficult to see why they pulled away from Sansa. When she marries Tyrion, it seems like Sansa is stuck with the Lannisters for good. They must be wondering "what if she decides to make the most of it (because she wants to belong or because the Lannisters can put the pressure on her) and become a Lannister spy in their camp?" I think they are probably uncertain about Sansa's strength to resist the Lannister thumbscrews (psychological / all kinds) and can't risk being unguarded around her. It's not very nice, but it is rather practical. The Tyrells can no longer bring Sansa into their fold, and now that her loyalties have been forcibly realigned for her, they simply can't trust her to continue to resist.

I see your point, but the Tyrells were always guarded around Sansa, and it appears as though the cousins weren't in on the plot either based on Megga's comment about Joff's lips. So I'm really less inclined to believe they deserted her for those reasons. Reaching out to Sansa with a kind word would not have been asking too much, and would have gone a long way in making Sansa feel better. I actually think Lady Olenna naturally assumed that Sansa must have told someone, and reverted back to her opinion that Sansa was a foolish girl not worth bothering about.

[1234567]

I am probably projecting my dissapointment all over again onto these scenes because I thought Sansa and Tyrion could have made a pretty scary team if they worked together and I was half and half when the wedding was announced because of how I saw Tyrion at the time. Upset for Sansa because she is my favourite character and supposed to wind up with the Hound and marrying into Lannisters under the circumstances is just too much to fathom. Relieved for her too because I felt that finally she will be near someone (now that the Hound is gone) that isn't afraid to slap Joff around when he steps out of line and is likely to be able to force Cersei to cut the crap, but all that crumbled :(

I understand the disappointment. Up until that chapter Tyrion had been one of my favourite characters and I really thought right up to the bedroom scene that he was playing a part and once they got into the bedroom, he would tell Sansa he had done it to protect her from his family, but sadly the scene just showed how much he capitulated to them once his father got there. :( I think this chapter really was Tyrion's turning point into a moral downward slide.

post='3056690']

The Tyrell girls had no reason to abandon her, they were still staying at the Red Keep, and Sansa had done nothing to hurt them like I said in a previous post, so I won't repeat myself.

I agree, and I have developed a hatred of the Tyrell ladies due to their abandonment of her, but I also think the previous posters make an interesting point about keeping the Lannisters sweet. Given their own playing of the game, I wonder if they thought Sansa had played them?

The lack of a Tyrell POV is a real shame!

[voodooqueen126]

I haven't replied to everyones posts to me, sorry. Thanks for the replies, it's really busy here. @ Brashcandy, your reply is HUGE, I'll try to get around to it at some stage to clear up a few things that I probably was not so clear on in the first place. It was not a very good post because I ran out of time :( but I was waiting so patiently to say my bit about Tyrion at the right time it's just the right time is in the middle of some big projects starting and I have no time to scratch myself. It feels a little like sleep, eat, work, sleep, eat, work :D. All my days are running into each other :D

I am probably projecting my dissapointment all over again onto these scenes because I thought Sansa and Tyrion could have made a pretty scary team if they worked together and I was half and half when the wedding was announced because of how I saw Tyrion at the time. Upset for Sansa because she is my favourite character and supposed to wind up with the Hound and marrying into Lannisters under the circumstances is just too much to fathom. Relieved for her too because I felt that finally she will be near someone (now that the Hound is gone) that isn't afraid to slap Joff around when he steps out of line and is likely to be able to force Cersei to cut the crap, but all that crumbled :(

Woman of War said earlier that if they had sat and talked to each other rather than getting naked they could have gotten along. It's one of those "what if " threads are in order. I can only imagine the possibilities of the trouble the two of them could have caused for Tywin and Cersei if they stayed cool and played the game, it would have been epic to watch as their game unfolded (I for one would rather be learing the game from Tyrion that LF, because at least I know where I stand with Tyrion) but it was not to be.

Except Tyrion thought that Sansa was a treacherous idiot and overly pious to boot...