You Win or You Die Exclusive Preview

[a free shadow]

Is that Ygritte and Jon in 18:20?

More likely Osha "distracting" one of the guards.

[Jory]

So he's an idiot, or in denial, or a hypocrite? Neither paint a flattering picture.

He is a much more complex character than the worship view of Davos POV.

Knowing that the world should be one way and understanding that it isn't - and then working with "the world you're given" - doesn't make you a hypocrite.

[deleted01]

So he's an idiot, or in denial, or a hypocrite? Neither paint a flattering picture.

He is a much more complex character than the worship view of Davos POV.

I utterly believed that he was honest with Davos. That relationship is now undermined by the obviousness of Stannis' relationship with Mel in the TV show.

Not that it's a massive deal anyway -_-

[salt]

Like his oath of fealty to the Targaryens? He helped usurp them, and now he will destroy anyone who does not bend the knee to him? Yeah... A hypocrite.

He swore an oath of fealty to the King on the Iron Throne, he also swore an oath of fealty to the head of House Baratheon and Lord of the Stormlands Robert Baratheon. Those two were at war, so either way he had to break one of them.

He had the choice to betray his king, or the choice to betray his blood and lord. He said it was the hardest decision he had ever made in his life.

[PatrickStormborn]

I think the point was that it's never that explicit in the books - in fact, Stannis seems unaware of Mels' shadowbabies, and because he's meant to be this just, honourable man, it's easy to believe that he had no idea what killed his brother. I understand that they have to either show it like that or not at all on the TV show, but if he's fully aware of what she's up to, it seems to undermine his relationship with Davos, to me. It's also massively hypocritical for him to want to ban whores yet cheats on his wife and appears to feel no remorse.

Oh, and yeah, I got majorly excited when I first found out about this but there wasn't really anything shown that we didn't know before or haven't seen before. Still, whet my appetite for April 1st! :D

It's pretty explicit in the books -- more explicit than Renly and Loras, in fact. She's frequently referred to as his "true queen", she thinks about how her bed has seen little use since Stannis left, they share a tent, etc. He may not have known that the shadowbaby would kill Renly, but that doesn't mean Mel slept with him against his will -- particularly as it happens twice.

[Hyper]

He had the choice to betray his king, or the choice to betray his blood and lord. He said it was the hardest decision he had ever made in his life.

True - But that experience should have opened his eyes to other situations where oaths may need to be broken. But he doesn't change his viewpoint - And *that* is what makes him a hypocrite in my eyes. He would not tolerate someone else doing to him what he did to Aerys II.

[deleted01]

It's pretty explicit in the books -- more explicit than Renly and Loras, in fact. She's frequently referred to as his "true queen", she thinks about how her bed has seen little use since Stannis left, they share a tent, etc. He may not have known that the shadowbaby would kill Renly, but that doesn't mean Mel slept with him against his will -- particularly as it happens twice.

:dunno: More fool me for believing him and believing that he wouldn't do that then. But in my defense, he didn't tell me not to trust him.. :drunk:

[Chelly]

Cool. A lot of season 1 stuff, but good to watch nonetheless.

[Vikingkingq]

It's pretty explicit in the books -- more explicit than Renly and Loras, in fact. She's frequently referred to as his "true queen", she thinks about how her bed has seen little use since Stannis left, they share a tent, etc. He may not have known that the shadowbaby would kill Renly, but that doesn't mean Mel slept with him against his will -- particularly as it happens twice.

Let's not overgeneralize here.

1. Stannis sleeps with Melisandre. We don't know how he views this relationship; his wife is insanely devout in worship to R'hllor and likely would be ok with it (assuming for a second that she didn't urge him to do it), and it's totally unclear how Melisandre broached the subject. I also think it speaks to his humanity - here's a man who no one has ever loved, a hard-looking man engaged to an ugly woman, humiliated at his own wedding, and a loveless marriage with no heir to speak of. All of the sudden, a beautiful woman shows up and tells him he's the messiah and that she wants him. That's damn hard to turn down.

2. Melisandre gives birth to a shadowbaby. We don't know what if anything Stannis knows about this. Keep in mind that Melisandre had shown him in the fires that Renly is fated to die soon - it may well be that Stannis thinks R'hllor struck down Renly as a traitor to his brother/Azor Ahai reborn. I think it's unlikely that Stannis knew it was going to happen explicitly; after all, Melisandre had shown him it was going to happen, so why does he have to "give fate a push" by killing him via magic? I think it's more likely that Melisandre said that she had seen them sleeping together, or that it was a sacrament to R'hllor, or that if he did, he'd become king - not "I'll kill your brother with shadowbaby."

[A Time for Wolves]

I loved this preview so much that I googled game of thrones stuff, and now I wish I hadn't.

It looks like Everyone's Favorite Prostitute just won't go away. I'm very disappointed that Ros is getting an expanded role in season 2. The bit about Ros is halfway down that article, so I'll just include the relevant quote here:

Prostitute Ros was originally supposed to be included in one scene, but Benioff and Weiss are obviously fans: "she's so much fun to watch that she's become a relatively major character in season two", the explained. Sexploitation obviously pays off!

Ros was a waste of space in season 1 - I can think of at least ten things they could have spent more time on - and she'll be an even bigger waste of space in season 2, when the characters and storylines get so dispersed that a ten-hour season will barely cover everything, without the sex scenes. Not a fan of this decision.

[salt]

Pretty much every single Ros scene involved exposition about the important pasts of major characters like Theon and Littlefinger. I wouldn't consider her scenes a waste of space by any means. To the book readers its completely unnecessary, to those that only watch the TV they're extremely important to reveal the depth of this world and the stories of the people who populate it. Exposition scenes that would otherwise be boring monologues are necessary, if throwing some nipples in them helps HBO keep subscriptions and keep this show on for many years to come, great.

[A Time for Wolves]

Pretty much every single Ros scene involved exposition about the important pasts of major characters like Theon and Littlefinger. I wouldn't consider her scenes a waste of space by any means. To the book readers its completely unnecessary, to those that only watch the TV they're extremely important to reveal the depth of this world and the stories of the people who populate it. Exposition scenes that would otherwise be boring monologues are necessary, if throwing some nipples in them helps HBO keep subscriptions and keep this show on for many years to come, great.

Although I agree that things need to be explained to new viewers, I think the information that comes out of those sexposition scenes either a) could have been revealed more effectively without the sex or b ) should not have been revealed at all.

[Gurney Halleck]

Serious awesome jam roll with pickles of Season 2 goodness, garnished with re fried mung beans of lovely season 1 goodness.

Accompanied by lovely tidbits of sour Ned sauce, twice fried Tully/Reed longness.

Dressed with anticipation.

Also, nobody talks about Berric Dondarrion anymore! what a ledge!

[waaimasjien]

Well what "shocked" me the most was

Stannis and Mel kissing

I mean, wasn't he supposed to be an honourable, dutyful man who doesn't even allow whores in his lands? I wanna know how they're gonna explain that one...

Liam Cunningham stated in the Stannis featurette that Stannis 'is falling under her spell'. I take that quite literally and think that's basically the explanation. It's not his own free will anymore.

[Vikingkingq]

Liam Cunningham stated in the Stannis featurette that Stannis 'is falling under her spell'. I take that quite literally and think that's basically the explanation. It's not his own free will anymore.

That...is something I hadn't thought of. I mean, we know she does shadowbinding and fire magic, there's no reason why mesmerism couldn't be part of her bag of tricks. Which would be...amazing, actually. Throws into question how compelling an evangelist she really is, and how much of it is mind control.

[Fylimar]

I loved this preview so much that I googled game of thrones stuff, and now I wish I hadn't.

It looks like Everyone's Favorite Prostitute just won't go away. I'm very disappointed that Ros is getting an expanded role in season 2. The bit about Ros is halfway down that article, so I'll just include the relevant quote here:

I agree about Ros being unnecessary in the show, with all the other characters around. But what excited me more in that list was the mention of Osha:

30. Harry Potter actress Natalia Tena plays wilding Osha, and A Song of Ice and Fire author George R. R. Martin was so impressed with her performance that he's making changes in his next book, The Winds of Winter. "She's become such an interesting character," he explains, "that when she reappears in the books I'd like to give her a more interesting role to play".

I like Natalia Tena and I like Osha - so that's big news for me :-)

The clip was nice, but I missed Arya, Sansa, Rob and Bran there. And it looks to me, as if the clip was made for people, who are not so familiar with Martins world, to explain the houses and fractions - which is a good idea, except, they should have at least mentioned the other big characters, like Littlefinger, Varys, Tywin Lannister, Sam or the Mormonts.

[PatrickStormborn]

Oh, yes, it's all Mel's fault. She's an evil temptress. Stannis would be so much better without her!!!

Let's not overgeneralize here.

1. Stannis sleeps with Melisandre. We don't know how he views this relationship; his wife is insanely devout in worship to R'hllor and likely would be ok with it (assuming for a second that she didn't urge him to do it), and it's totally unclear how Melisandre broached the subject. I also think it speaks to his humanity - here's a man who no one has ever loved, a hard-looking man engaged to an ugly woman, humiliated at his own wedding, and a loveless marriage with no heir to speak of. All of the sudden, a beautiful woman shows up and tells him he's the messiah and that she wants him. That's damn hard to turn down.

2. Melisandre gives birth to a shadowbaby. We don't know what if anything Stannis knows about this. Keep in mind that Melisandre had shown him in the fires that Renly is fated to die soon - it may well be that Stannis thinks R'hllor struck down Renly as a traitor to his brother/Azor Ahai reborn. I think it's unlikely that Stannis knew it was going to happen explicitly; after all, Melisandre had shown him it was going to happen, so why does he have to "give fate a push" by killing him via magic? I think it's more likely that Melisandre said that she had seen them sleeping together, or that it was a sacrament to R'hllor, or that if he did, he'd become king - not "I'll kill your brother with shadowbaby."

1. Stannis sleeps with Melisandre, I'm glad we both agree.

2. Melisandre gives birth to two shadowbabies. If he didn't know what was going to happen the first time, he definitely knew about it the second time. We know that they continue to share a bed and a tent even after they stop making shadowbabies, so it's fair to assume that he likes sleeping with her.

Stannis is a hypocrite. It's a huge part of his character.

[boojam]

Pretty much every single Ros scene involved exposition about the important pasts of major characters like Theon and Littlefinger. I wouldn't consider her scenes a waste of space by any means. To the book readers its completely unnecessary, to those that only watch the TV they're extremely important to reveal the depth of this world and the stories of the people who populate it. Exposition scenes that would otherwise be boring monologues are necessary, if throwing some nipples in them helps HBO keep subscriptions and keep this show on for many years to come, great.

Pretty much every single Ros scene involved exposition about the important pasts of major characters like Theon and Littlefinger. I wouldn't consider her scenes a waste of space by any means. To the book readers its completely unnecessary, to those that only watch the TV they're extremely important to reveal the depth of this world and the stories of the people who populate it. Exposition scenes that would otherwise be boring monologues are necessary, if throwing some nipples in them helps HBO keep subscriptions and keep this show on for many years to come, great.

Agreed.

Except one sequence , in episode 10, Ros and Grand Maester Pycelle was a sexposition that advanced the plot and backstory by zero.

[Tyrionthebest]

Oh, yes, it's all Mel's fault. She's an evil temptress. Stannis would be so much better without her!!!

1. Stannis sleeps with Melisandre, I'm glad we both agree.

2. Melisandre gives birth to two shadowbabies. If he didn't know what was going to happen the first time, he definitely knew about it the second time. We know that they continue to share a bed and a tent even after they stop making shadowbabies, so it's fair to assume that he likes sleeping with her.

Stannis is a hypocrite. It's a huge part of his character.

You speak the truth . I'm tired of people defending this constipated teeth crunching asshole . The most overrated character in the series imo . If it wasn't for Davos I wouldn't give two shits about his plotline .

[Fylimar]

While I like Stannis as a character, because he is as complicated and messed up as he is (a few friend and me even called him Sheldon Cooper of Westeros some times, because he is very intelligent, but has no social skills and emotional intelligence whatsoever - and sadly no friends like Lenard, Raj and Howard to help him out. Davos isn't the most social skilled person either and Mel ans Selyse have some big problems of themselves, so no help there), I agree, that he is a hypocrate. I don't think, he could believe, that two of his foes just conveniently drop dead at the right time - maybe, that was the reason, he sended Melisandre back to Dragonstone after the second shadowbaby incident. And of course the part about him keeping Mel as a mistress, while being married (even though Selyse doesn't seem to either care or being very bright, she doesn't deserve that treatment) and condemning men going to whores.