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How would you rate episode 205?

How do you rate episode 205?  

427 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

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OK. I've seen this Quaithe-as-figment theory posted here before so I assumed that perhaps she hadn't interacted in the books with anyone but Dany.

Yes, at the docks just as they're about to leave the city (I think? I know it's right toward the end of the book). So yeah, that was an item from the book both Qarth-y and interesting. Looking forward to how they handle that on the show.

me too, i hope they don't cut much of it, or any of it for that matter

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Loras not even suspecting Brienne of killing Renly, when he is convinced she did it in the books and they even did his casting based on the confrontation from Feast. Loras also killed two of his sworn Rainbow Guard brothers in rage who were guarding outside the tent, where here is talked down from hurting an unarmed Littlefinger who is starting wedding negotiations with Margeary over Renly's corpse.

Brienne's first slaying of a man wasn't until Feast, where she slayed several of the guards here.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what Loras believes because Brienne escapes either way. I think they are setting up the Tyrell's joining the Lannisters rather than Stannis--because Loras believes Stannis did it. Minor change that helps the writers out a lot. I can't imagine why Loras killing king's guard members matters in the long run, or when Brienne's first kill occurs. Both irrelevant changes. And Margery's negotiations fit well with this Margery, who is willing to do whatever she needs to do to be queen, and is frankly more interesting that book Margery. And to the point, the negotations occur, so who cares when? None of these are important changes.

Davos is made admiral of Stannis's fleet, where Imry Florent, the queen's brother who has no experience as an admiral, leads the attack on Blackwater Bay. While Davos will no doubt be made to make the same mistakes in the show, in the book Davos is the one pointing out the mistakes Ser Imry is making in being over confident and not sending out any scouts or noticing the tower which holds the chain. Also Ser Imry keeps Salador's ships back because he does not trust them, when Davos feels this was a waste as these were some of the most experienced war time sailors.

They can't keep every lord and peasant with a minor part. This is no more an important change than subbing Bron for Bywater as Commander of the Gold Cloaks. And they already set the stage for Davos's orders being ignored by knights and lords who won't follow a smuggler (Stannis tells Davos as much). So your "concern" may never even materialize and I don't see it as important even if it does.

Asha hasn't fit her book character so far. The Cleftjaw is the one suggesting they alter their raiding target, where in the books Theon is the one convincing him.

That first part is a matter of opnion. I think she's fine. Secondly, although Cleftjaw floats the idea of doing your own thing, Theon will doubtless be the one with the plan. Plus it fits better with the somewhat more sympathetic character show-Theon is. Minor, minorchanges.

The cliff side approaches of the TV fist of the first men will make escaping from it when it is attacked problematic, as there appeared to be only one way in and out.

I would include this as the definition of "irrelevent, minor change" in the picture dictionary of the GOT book to show dictionary.

Qarth is almost completely original content. Xaro is not gay, and they didn't bring up how if they were married the bride and groom could ask for one gift of one another which could not be refused, with Xaro's being one of her dragons. One has to wonder if Dany might not have considered Xaro more seriously for marriage, if she thought he had any interest in her what so ever. Especially when he makes it seem much more so than the books that he would support her war effort. They also made Jorah Mormont seem like he was against bringing any foreign aid to conquer Westeros, when it was his idea to get the Unsullied.

Xaro isn't gay as an imporant plot change?!?!? :bang: . He's still interested in Dany for a reason other than romance, so the essence is the same. And the Unsullied part hasn't happened yet. The key storyline from Mormont, which is entirely unchanged, is that whenever he sees someone else starting to have influence on Dany, he tries to cut it off at the head.

With Arya as cupbearer to Tywin, it is pretty unlikely that he would have a percieved commoner speaking freely to his council, and even less likely that she could say something as pointed as the thinly veiled threat of "anyone can die" directed at him.

Why not? Book Tywin clearly cares only about whether someone is of use, and Lannister honor. He would take advice from anyone who can provide it. And even if the line "anyone can die" may be slightly, slightly unbelieveable, it is so awesome that it overrides any objections.

Likewise it seems pretty unlikely that Jaqen would offer her 3 deaths and Tywin wouldn't be the first name on her mind after having made that threat. In the books it is more plauseable because she has no contact at all with Tywin and only sees him from a distance, and then realizes she should have named him as he is leaving. Cheswick was her first death in the books, and the Tickler taking his place robs Arya of the moment when she does it herself in Storm of Swords, the whole "Is there gold in the village?" as she stabs him over and over. I understand that not even having named him as the Tickler until this episode and having his torture scenes so brief and non-graphic in nature he probably would not even be remembered by next season or two seasons from now. But it still is a bit disappointing. Perhaps Polliver will take his place in that scene.

You yourself suggested why this isn't an important change, so I'll just agree with you.

Harrenhal is not nearly the hell it was for Arya, where she was constantly in danger, and stuck on manual labor duties scrubbing floors and what not. As the surprisingly friendly Tywin's cupbearer she argueably has it better than most of the commoners in the kingdom at this point. No Vargo Hoat and the Bloody Mummers certainly plays a role there, though I understand the casting costs for delaying their entrance to the story. Of course if they do cast them next season and if weasel soup still happens this season, then Vargo won't be changing sides in nearly the same manner.

Tell you what--you go watch a show involving lots of scrubbing of stairs, and I'll watch this one. Inconceivable that this could be considered an important change. And as long as Arya is involved in Harrenhal changing hands, then I don't see how any change prior to that could be even slightly relevant.

No Reeds, Bran has the Green Dreams instead and Osha apparently is going to be the one interpretting them. Howland Reed was the only survivor of the Tower of Joy, and it appears that story line may be cut completely. No mention of Ramsay Snow yet, but it is still early. Still this would have seemed to be the perfect time to bring him up story line wise.

Jojen Reed is nothing more than an annoying exposition device, so I'll be glad if he's cut. If he is, there's still no reason why Howland REed can't show up at some point. As long as someone tortures Theon eventually, does it have to be Ramsay Snow--and there's no evidence as of yet that it won't be anyway.

.

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I have a feeling that the Reeds will not be written in. I am betting that Maester Luwin takes Rickon and Osha and Hodor take Bran North. Just a thought but I can see it playing out like that. They are already making Osha out to be more "knowing" than she was even in the books.

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Ultimately it doesn't matter what Loras believes because Brienne escapes either way. I think they are setting up the Tyrell's joining the Lannisters rather than Stannis--because Loras believes Stannis did it. Minor change that helps the writers out a lot. I can't imagine why Loras killing king's guard members matters in the long run, or when Brienne's first kill occurs. Both irrelevant changes. And Margery's negotiations fit well with this Margery, who is willing to do whatever she needs to do to be queen, and is frankly more interesting that book Margery. And to the point, the negotations occur, so who cares when? None of these are important changes.

In your opinion. Leaving out the killing of the Rainbow Guard members was not of major importance to me, especially considering the lack of screen time to set up that scene. However removing Loras killing any guards takes away the rage that Ser Loras was under at the time and the actions that haunt him in the future. Not even suspecting Brienne or Catelyn right after it happens is just completely unbelieveable, even if there was no books to compare it to. The last two people with the king when he died both fled the scene and they aren't even suspects? If Ser Loras so easily dismisses the idea, then why exactly did Brienne need to flee? The bannermen who swapped sides to Stannis aren't likely to care much.

Margery's actions do fit well with her TV character and at the core I don't mind them, but I do think it a bit of a stretch for them to be starting those negotiations with Loras in the room grieving Renly. But this is the type of change that I can overlook.

They can't keep every lord and peasant with a minor part. This is no more an important change than subbing Bron for Bywater as Commander of the Gold Cloaks. And they already set the stage for Davos's orders being ignored by knights and lords who won't follow a smuggler (Stannis tells Davos as much). So your "concern" may never even materialize and I don't see it as important even if it does.

Perhaps, but apparently they did cast Gordon Mann as Ser Imry Florent, and he is set to appear in the Blackwater Bay episode. I do think it is significant if Davos orders lead to the disaster at Blackwater, when he is the one that points out the errors which would have mitigated their losses in the books. It's the difference between him being an incompetant Admiral, and seeing that Lords are often given tasks they aren't suited for due to their birth, over lower born people who might be more capable, and the disasterous results that can come of that.

That first part is a matter of opnion. I think she's fine. Secondly, although Cleftjaw floats the idea of doing your own thing, Theon will doubtless be the one with the plan. Plus it fits better with the somewhat more sympathetic character show-Theon is. Minor, minorchanges.

Everything we are discussing is a matter of opinion. Theon being ambitious and convincing Cleftjaw to go siege Torrhen's Square with the specific purpose of hitting Winterfell is a different mindset than Cleftjaw convincing Theon they should attack there, and then coming up with the idea for Winterfell after the fact. Sure it isn't a game changer, but it is the type of change that they quite easily could have kept true with no additional screen time. Theon suggesting the idea might have even believeably won him some respect among his crew.

I would include this as the definition of "irrelevent, minor change" in the picture dictionary of the GOT book to show dictionary.

Only time will tell, but it will be interesting to see how Sam escapes the wights and white walkers if the only way in or out is thru their attack path.

Xaro isn't gay as an imporant plot change?!?!? :bang: . He's still interested in Dany for a reason other than romance, so the essence is the same. And the Unsullied part hasn't happened yet. The key storyline from Mormont, which is entirely unchanged, is that whenever he sees someone else starting to have influence on Dany, he tries to cut it off at the head.

Part of the reason Dany dismisses the notion even though she still considers marrying Xaro, is because she knows he has absolutely ZERO desire for her. How do we know in the context of the TV show that he is only interested in Dany for reasons other than romance? One of the key reasons we know in the books is because Xaro isn't interested in women. Book Xaro is completely against helping Dany with any war efforts because it is bad for trade, where TV Xaro seems pretty open to the idea. Mormont saying that she should rely completely on aid from Westeros is in complete contradiction to the idea of getting an army of Unsullied. In fact the attitude that no foreign aid should be used is much more in line with Ser Barriston. Jorah could have just as easily cut off the relationship by bringing up the wedding custom that would cost her one of her dragons. Will this ruin the TV show? No, but it is a significant change from the book, which will either result in more changes when the Unsullied come up, or a contradiction in attitude by Ser Jorah.

Why not? Book Tywin clearly cares only about whether someone is of use, and Lannister honor. He would take advice from anyone who can provide it. And even if the line "anyone can die" may be slightly, slightly unbelieveable, it is so awesome that it overrides any objections.

Great for you if you find it believeable that the lord of Casterly Rock would let a peasant make a veiled threat towards him in front of his war coucil and stare him down, but I found it completely unrealistic, even though it was incredibly acted. If a peasant threatening you at your war council meeting isnt a threat to his honor, I don't know what qualifies.

Tell you what--you go watch a show involving lots of scrubbing of stairs, and I'll watch this one. Inconceivable that this could be considered an important change. And as long as Arya is involved in Harrenhal changing hands, then I don't see how any change prior to that could be even slightly relevant.

You say it as if there would be hours of time spent watching her scrub stairs. We are talking about seeing her do manual labor for a few seconds instead of sitting around talking to Gendry as if they are guests of Tywin. The point of Arya being stuck doing hard manual labor and being slapped when she asks to do the stables rather than the kitchen, is to see the difference between how high borns are treated and commoners, much of which has been glossed over or completely contradicted here by Tywin's actions. Is there a safer place that book Arya visits in all of her travels after Ned's death than TV Harrenhal? Before getting the 3 deaths from Jaqen she felt like a mouse who was powerless and beaten down in the books. On the TV show she is threatening Tywin in front of his war council.

Jojen Reed is nothing more than an annoying exposition device, so I'll be glad if he's cut. If he is, there's still no reason why Howland REed can't show up at some point. As long as someone tortures Theon eventually, does it have to be Ramsay Snow--and there's no evidence as of yet that it won't be anyway.

No none of that HAS to happen for the story to go on. In fact they didn't have to cast Renly in the first place, since he died already, if you want to take it to the extreme that the end result is all that matters. I do think it starts to become a much different story when you start making these changes though. Great that they don't bother you, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Now none of these changes ruined this episode for me. I gave it an 8, so how bad could they be? But I do think that if the goal was to follow the books as closely as possible they made quite a few changes that could have been kept in their original form without any additonal screen time, casting, or special effects.

Edited by Tadco26

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Great episode. Loved the Arya-Tywin scene especially, and I thought the Renly death scene was good if not as good in the books.

Just bring in Ser Brynden Tully and I'll be happy.

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This was my favorite episode so far. Jaqen was done so well, as was Arya's whole story. The original suspicions that Littlefinger was at Storm's End to broker the alliance with the Lannisters seems to be true. Loras was brash, hotheaded, and kinda foolish like I imagined. Brienne is still sooooo accurate to what I imagined. The actor for Bran continues to impress, and you see Bran growing into his role as a lord. Alfie as Theon has been perfect. Last season it was always like "oh come on writers," but they've done him perfectly this season.

The shadow baby was not as well as I imagined in the book, but I expected that. It was still a decent scene that I am sure was sick for non-readers. Though where did Davos and Mel go to if Renly was in his tent, not Storm's End?

I still hate this guy as Stannis. He is just a different character completely to me. I cannot emphasize how much we would have benefited from a longer, more accurate Dragonstone intro.

EDIT: My thoughts on the Reeds: They could very well be the ones to unbury Bran and co. from the crypts after Ramsay destroys Winterfell. Jojen could just say he was led there by the 3EC.

Edited by The Shadow Fox

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Gave it a 9.

This episode was exactly why I scream every week at my screen: You can't shove a whole book in 10 episodes !!!!!!!

I just settled and prepared for more when the episode ended.

I have also started to notice that the show is straying more and more from the books , but I don't mind too much if they don't change the character motivations and personalities (as LF , for instance and I guess Asha)

Brienne, Margarey, Stanis, Davos. Jaquen, Osha, Tywin...etc..etc everyone was great. This show got 95% of cast great, so far.

I know that some people have problem with Stanis casting but to me he is just what he should be: charmless, joyless, strict...(only problem is that producers also did that with Asha/Yara character)

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Brienne effing ppl up deserves a 10... but some other lame things in my mind brought this to an 8. Good posturing show as some of you have called it. Dagmer didn't seem very dagmerish to me...

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Brad Pitt in the Assassination of Jesse James by Robert Ford the Coward- He can act

Haven't seen that, but I agree Brad Pitt can act. Fight Club, Moneyball, Se7en, the list goes on. Brad Pitt may not always be playing great roles, but he plays every role well.

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Loved this episode. A solid 9. I WAS kind of thinking how short and un-Vikingy the iron-men appear to be. Anyway...the rest of the episode was great. I especially loved the different motivations, and connivances they've come up with in Qarth and Harrenhal to economise screen time and pace and still keep the story plausible. Xaro appears more 'life-like' and comprehesible than in the books, where the Qartheen customs make him appear more...remote and exotic, so to speak.

Great work all round. This is the first time Dillane becomes Stannis for me. Cunningham was awesome. Gwen Christie, superb, even by book-loyalist nitpicker standards I should think.

The Tyrio sequence...woweee...Can't wait til Blackwater!!!

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Great episode, I gave it a 9.

At this point, I have just learned to accept the changes the show makes from the novels, and accept it as a standalone entity. (to some extent..) If I watch an episode and try to nitpick all of the changes, it only makes me sad and lessens my view of the show. So with a new mindset going in, I found I enjoyed this episode a lot!!!

I thought the highlights were definitely the Arya scenes, Davos, and Tyrion and Bronn interacting with the Pyromancer..who was a pretty sweet guy

The parts that brought it down a bit for me were the Qarth scenes and Loras' reaction to Renly's death

Overall, great episode, and it should get even better from this point!

Edited by Davos55

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I rate it as a 5 meh.

I didn´t like Renly´s death because of what could have been. What happened with Loras grievance? and it was like done and to another place. I just hope they do justice to Winterfell and Theon´s history

And I didn´t like Tywin and Arya´s interaction. Don´t get me wrong I don´t have problems with the books being changed but I think this is not Arya. She is frightened in Harrenhal at first and subtely she is being changed from a sheep to a ghost to a mortal no-one killer. And you can understand her evolution from a helpless girl to a girl with a hole in her heart. But as she wasn´t frightened to Tywin and to stare him like that. She is not that Arya in Harrenhal, she has still plenty to lose. She is still frightened

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Anyone know why the wildfire is Cersei's idea? I thought for sure it was Tyrion's in the books.

And what the hell was Xaro talking about with that door and a key?

Edited by The Shadow Fox

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8/10. Kinda underwhelmed by Dany's scenes, but there rest of the episode was good.

Arya & Co. = perfect, just perfect.

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Anyone know why the wildfire is Cersei's idea? I thought for sure it was Tyrion's in the books.

And what the hell was Xaro talking about with that door and a key?

The wildfire was Cersei's idea, at least the initial order of ten thousand jars, but the details on how they were used was all Tyrion, such as stuffing the ferries, barges and hulks with the stuff and floating them down the river.

I think Xaro was just trying to tempt Dany with his wealth, but never said what was behind the door, just implying that if it was that secure it must be valuable indeed.

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gave it a ten, loved everything except Qaith interaction with Jorah.

was happy to see Viserion and Ghost. Arya with Tywin, Q Half Hand that was a nice surprise for me as i did not know he was cast , and finally, a man is handsome with lovely eyes and nice lips. a girl was happy.

No Roz, no brothel a girl was happy.

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Why did everyone hate Qarth.. i dont get it. Is it because of this jorah and dany thing. Is there not a small romance or thing with them in the books?

Edited by cooper56

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This my first 10. I've nothing to say, other than I want to watch again. NOW! As I can't be arsed moaning about things changed from the books anymore, I just watch it as a TV programme. Nor will I ever cease to champion Stephen Dillane, who is the Stannis I saw from the moment I picked the books up. I can't pick a hole in anyone tonight. Thankfully, Gillen wasn't on the screen long enough for me to cringe, either, and I loved Qarth, after I'd been disappointed with that godawful scene at the Gates last week. :D

And I hope everyone appreciated all the hard work I've been putting in on my little Drogon. He can now cook his own meat. It's taken me a long time to teach him that. Hopefully we'll see him come on in leaps and bounds with good fuel inside him that he can turn to fire.

Don't quite get the Gemma Whelan hate, either, folks - she's OK by me. Star of tonight - A man who can take a woman anywhere and do whatever he likes to her..... And of course, my little baby who is learning his skills.

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An 8 from me. I was going to go for a 7, as there were a lot of good scenes but I didn't think any of them were brilliant. Then I started thinking what the negative were, and realised that I didn't really have any this week.

Particularly liked the Haremhal and Kings Landing scenes

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