BigBucket Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 :bang: :bang: If I had a dollar for everytime someone interpreted this relationship wrong..Probably the most laughable, rediculous comment I've ever heard. Because Martin writes in such a way that there is only one correct interpretation, and well I never, you just happen to be the one who knows what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Probably the most laughable, rediculous comment I've ever heard. Because Martin writes in such a way that there is only one correct interpretation, and well I never, you just happen to be the one who knows what it is.Like you say though, that is how he writes. He doesn't spell out in big letters, but he does give enough information that for the vast majority of "questions", there is one right answer. The purple wedding is a perfect example of it, who sent the killer after Bran another.Also, she never said she was the only one who knows it, just that she has determined based on what is written what she believes it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 Ladies and Gentlemen! ATTENTION!We shall be polite and not get testy. Even if we are sorely tested. We all have opinions. And we respect everyone, even if we disagree. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 [mod] Discuss the topic at hand, not each other. Thank you. [/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBucket Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Like you say though, that is how he writes. He doesn't spell out in big letters, but he does give enough information that for the vast majority of "questions", there is one right answer. The purple wedding is a perfect example of it, who sent the killer after Bran another.I don't see the Sandor/Sansa romance question as having one right answer however. For my part I see their relationship as being mainly about the learning experience they both get from it. Sansa learning more about the harsh realities of life and Sandor, that not everything he sees as weak or innocent is to be pitied or despised. Again with Sansa's later thoughts about Sandor. She is a young girl going through a period of her life that I would imagine is confusing for any young girl. Add in to that all that she has endured and that Sandor, in a wierd way, is probably the person she has been most intimate with for quite some time and the fact that he often appears unbidden as the subject of her thoughts could mean absolutely nothing in the longer term. Or they could indicate some serious romantic feelings. You pay your money and take your choice.Also, she never said she was the only one who knows it, just that she has determined based on what is written what she believes it to be. Stating what you believe and telling someone they are wrong for believing differently are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Ceriddwynn Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Nope...you are WRONG! wrong i tell you.....who am I talking to? meh.....pick someone LOLok....seriously.... :mellow:Shae's purpose seems to be two-fold: to give the actress screen time and to provide a "sounding board" for Sansa as no one wants to read "Sansa thought.......this.........." with much of her storyline being internal.Perhaps they will have some girl talk about the Hound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independent George Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 i keep hoping Drogo will get the late night munchies and eat Dany....but nope......Hey, considering all of Doreah's lessons to Dany; how do we know that he didn't? Har!/duck and cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Ceriddwynn Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 ACK!!!!!!!!!!well.....actually.......HBO killed off the chick who did in the books! HAH!yea yea i meant Drogon.....dang typo..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 Hey, considering all of Doreah's lessons to Dany; how do we know that he didn't?/duck and cover. :P Stay on topic, she said, sternly. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrja Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Speaking of said topic, I just read YET ANOTHER review of the episode by a non-book-reader, and they were convinced that Sansa was going to run off with the Hound and have a love-affair together.......this person's observation was based solely on the tiny bit of San/San screen time in the tv series.I'm not saying that means *anything* whatsoever, other than that 'it' (whatever 'it' is) has obviously caught the attention of those who have not read the books, and will most likely perplex these viewers when Sandor and Sansa don't interact again. (Or....at least not yet. :leer: )Again.....my question is......after this episode (which otherwise seemed to demonstrate some 'growth' from Tv-Sansa), how are they going to explain why she didn't leave with him? A converstation with Shae? Whatever it may be, I hope it doesn't involve Littlefinger. Hmmph. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharvot Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Nah, the episode did not kill the San/San idea in any way. It was modified from what was in the book, sure, but the meeting was still there. There is clear importance to the meeting. It revealed that not only was the Hound through with his loyalty to the Lannisters, but it also revealed that he had some sort of feelings for Sansa...whether those feelings were protective or emotional in nature is not revealed.Sansa can very easily "misremember" the events as she did in the books, she could well fantasize about them too. The Blackwater episode did not do a whole lot to enhance their relationship, but it did not wipe out the possibility of it either. The fact that the season included most Sandor and Sansa interactions should speak volumes towards the importance of their perceived relationship going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Again.....my question is......after this episode (which otherwise seemed to demonstrate some 'growth' from Tv-Sansa), how are they going to explain why she didn't leave with him?The growth of tv Sansa is the explanation: she was not so willing anymore to to as she was told, not if she was not convinced. And Sandor with his drunk behavior did not inspire trust, the more mature episode 9 Sansa had an opinion she was willing to defend ( finally - the girl is growing up - thank you HBO!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrja Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 The growth of tv Sansa is the explanation: she was not so willing anymore to to as she was told, not if she was not convinced. And Sandor with his drunk behavior did not inspire trust, the more mature episode 9 Sansa had an opinion she was willing to defend ( finally - the girl is growing up - thank you HBO!).That's a good explanation, and I totally understand what you are saying. I don't think TV or book - Sansa should have gone with the Hound either. But I guess I just wonder if they will bother to explain something like this to the TV audience or not....I'm sure there will still be those who say she is stupid, no matter what explanations are or are not given. Just like there are those book readers who insist Sansa is stupid, even in her later chapters.Of course, neither TV or Book Sansa is stupid.....she is a survivor, imo. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juliads Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Speaking of said topic, I just read YET ANOTHER review of the episode by a non-book-reader, and they were convinced that Sansa was going to run off with the Hound and have a love-affair together.......this person's observation was based solely on the tiny bit of San/San screen time in the tv series.I'm not saying that means *anything* whatsoever, other than that 'it' (whatever 'it' is) has obviously caught the attention of those who have not read the books, and will most likely perplex these viewers when Sandor and Sansa don't interact again. (Or....at least not yet. :leer: )Again.....my question is......after this episode (which otherwise seemed to demonstrate some 'growth' from Tv-Sansa), how are they going to explain why she didn't leave with him? A converstation with Shae? Whatever it may be, I hope it doesn't involve Littlefinger. Hmmph. :PI am a "non-book reader" and i took that scene as if Sansa had declined the hounds offer. But i too have heard many people assume that she went with him, which would have been my preference personally.....And the dialogue between them in that scene left much room to analyze. When she declared "you won't hurt me" or something like that, was she trying to reassure herself, or did she finally realize that he has been her only ally during her time in the castle? I enjoyed the "all men are killers" speech he gave her, he should have thrown in that he won't be around to keep her from rapists and the king's sadistic attitude towards her.I have gathered from other posts by now what happens in the books, but the tv show did spend enough time on the two of them to give its viewers (at least the non-bookies) a suggestion that something would grow between them.From the previous episode i am leaning towards the thought that we have seen the last of the San/San moments, sadly.Sandor is such a fascinating character, and so wonderfully played i really hope we do get to see him again on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrja Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Nah, the episode did not kill the San/San idea in any way. It was modified from what was in the book, sure, but the meeting was still there. There is clear importance to the meeting. It revealed that not only was the Hound through with his loyalty to the Lannisters, but it also revealed that he had some sort of feelings for Sansa...whether those feelings were protective or emotional in nature is not revealed.Sansa can very easily "misremember" the events as she did in the books, she could well fantasize about them too. The Blackwater episode did not do a whole lot to enhance their relationship, but it did not wipe out the possibility of it either. The fact that the season included most Sandor and Sansa interactions should speak volumes towards the importance of their perceived relationship going forward.I agree that the TV episode did not kill 'San/San' for me. :)Nevertheless, I think that I need to be much more clear about what *I* mean by the term 'San/San'. I know that in 'fandom' (whatever that is) the 'slash' thing is used to denote a hoped-for romantic relationship between two characters. This is not how I am using it, personally. I don't even really like the term myself. I've been using 'San/San' because everyone else seems to use it and its easier to type than 'Sansa and Sandor's strangely compelling connection with each other that could or could not develop into something more for both of them but probably won't be ever be acted upon and may not ever come up again in the series even though it would be nice to have some resolution on the subject'. :PI just wanted to be clear that when I am answering the question 'Is San/San dead?' and I say HELLS NO!!!!, that I mean that the Blackwater episode by no means shows that Sandor and Sansa will never meet again. If anything, its inclusion in the series at all (even as 'just' a 'mentor/protector' type relationship), still could mean that they will, at the very least, meet up again someday.For me, it would still be 'San/San' even if they never meet up again, or if they do meet up again but don't have a romantic relationship (which they mostly won't), or if they even meet up again and are somehow involved with each other's deaths! Just like, for me, I still like 'Jaime/Brienne' , even if it is never romantic and nothing of the sort happens.Trying to explain this fully is difficult. I am just getting tired of the disdain and disgust from San/San-haters who seem to think that if you appreciate the Sansa/Sandor interactions in anyway, and if you had wished and hoped to see them accurately put on-screen, that it means you are some rabid tween fangirl type who sits around drawing Sandor as a bishounen all day and has an unrealistic grasp on the world of ASoIaF and the probability of 'romance' therein. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrja Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I am a "non-book reader" and i took that scene as if Sansa had declined the hounds offer. But i too have heard many people assume that she went with him, which would have been my preference personally.....And the dialogue between them in that scene left much room to analyze. When she declared "you won't hurt me" or something like that, was she trying to reassure herself, or did she finally realize that he has been her only ally during her time in the castle? I enjoyed the "all men are killers" speech he gave her, he should have thrown in that he won't be around to keep her from rapists and the king's sadistic attitude towards her.I have gathered from other posts by now what happens in the books, but the tv show did spend enough time on the two of them to give its viewers (at least the non-bookies) a suggestion that something would grow between them.From the previous episode i am leaning towards the thought that we have seen the last of the San/San moments, sadly.Sandor is such a fascinating character, and so wonderfully played i really hope we do get to see him again on the show.Thank you so much for sharing your perspective, Juliads! :)As for the Hound, yes, I adore him, and I love Rory McCann's presence on the show. I don't want to spoil anything for you, but if the tv series follows the books AT ALL in the next season(s), then we will have not seen the last of the Hound. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Ceriddwynn Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Rory McCann :drool: :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caro99 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 yeah can't wait to see rory next season! :wub: and yeah, the moments between arya and the hound are quite incredibly funny and deep, but i'm going to be a little teary-eyed for only getting to see sandor with arya, instea dof him with the little bird, who will in turn be with tyrion and LF...i asked a friend who hasn't read the books if he thought sansa had rejected the hound, and he told me that the way he got it, sandor just left too quickly after he assured her he wouldn't hurt her. that if he had stayed 2 minutes more or something, she would've made her mind to go with him..there's been some speculation about the show turning sansa's internal monologues into conversations with shae, and that maybe we will see sansa telling shae about the un-kiss moment and that she ought to have gone with the hound... & well, while i have loved all the sansa/shae moments the show came up with, and i think it will be bittersweet to watch this friendship fall apart due to tyrion aand sansa getting married, I do not want sansa to tell shae about the hound and her. even if in the show it's much lighter stuff than in the books, the odd connection that happened between them is compelling cause no one in westeros expects to see the lannister's dog and ned stark's pretty daughter forming a bond of sorts. if shae know, well i think i would view her as as intruder to san/san. these 2 haven't even consioucly realized they may be thinking a little too much of the other, so if we see in S3 a jealous shae (she has to get jealous in order for the show to set up her betrayal to tyrion) telling tyrion about sandor and sansa to make him jealous in return, and even worse, she could tell cersei and tywin when they threaten her after joff's death,it's all going to loose so much more of the beauty of the san/san connection..i guess that if the show can't come up with anything more than conversations with shae about sandor in oder for onlt show viewers to get sansa misses the hound, i'll jjust have to wait and see how they deal with it to see if i would have a chang of heart about this. another thing that has been mentioned is if whether or not sansa and sandor will have a romantic vibe to them if george decides to have them thrown together again... i actually do think that if sansa and sandor meet again something romantic is bound to happen. it can only be a kiss or him dying for her, but i can't see them just recalling what they lived in KL in the past and then walking on their own separate directions. they've made a deep impression on the other that cannot just be forgotten or ignored when and if they ever meet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 I thought that was well said, Caro99. I agree with your analysis about not wanting Sansa to have a chat with Shae. Cringe worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroucia Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Speaking of said topic, I just read YET ANOTHER review of the episode by a non-book-reader, and they were convinced that Sansa was going to run off with the Hound and have a love-affair together.......this person's observation was based solely on the tiny bit of San/San screen time in the tv series.I'm not saying that means *anything* whatsoever, other than that 'it' (whatever 'it' is) has obviously caught the attention of those who have not read the books, and will most likely perplex these viewers when Sandor and Sansa don't interact again. (Or....at least not yet. :leer: )Again.....my question is......after this episode (which otherwise seemed to demonstrate some 'growth' from Tv-Sansa), how are they going to explain why she didn't leave with him? A converstation with Shae? Whatever it may be, I hope it doesn't involve Littlefinger. Hmmph. :PHa! It probably will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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