[Book Spoilers] Pre-air Discussion

[BlackTalon]

I always find it funny when hardcore fans come on the episode thread a week ahead of time and say things like "They better show Jaqen with Arya" when Jaqen talking to Arya is right in the freaking preview for the episode.

I am a hardore fan, I would never spoil the episode and the whole anticipation for myself by watching some preview.

I never read the sample chapters for AFFC and ADWD on martin´s website either, no matter how long the wait for those books was.

[Lord Rayder]

So if they do include visions, which ones do you think they'll include? I doubt the RW prediction, as mentioned before that would be too obvious. I also don't think they'd cast a Rhaegar...I'm a little rusty on the other visions. Any predictions?

[King Tommen]

People aren't worried that they aren't gonna do it at all. They are worried they are gonna do in a hurry, like the end of Blackwater. House of the Undying, and the siege and sack of Winterfell alone could've been the meat of an entire episode in by book.

If we go by Season 1 and Season 2 episodes, they tend to cover off between 5-8 book chapters an episode. In the books, House of the Undying and the sack of Winterfell are a chapter each, why would they take an entire 70 minutes to cover? They are important but you don't need a ton of time to show what happens in them. Blackwater was an entire episode because it covered off 7 chapters of the book (in addition to 3-4 added scenes that weren't in the book).

70 minutes is approaching the length of a feature film. Would you expect a movie to only cover two incidents in a story over its running time? Is Dany going to watch visions for half an hour?

[eyeheartsansa]

Regarding Ramsay; I don't think we'll see him at all this season. D&D already said they don't want to cast major characters in the last episode of a season, because this means they'll have to put the actor on hold for another year.

I would be so disappointed not to see Ramsay, but at the same time I'd understand.. putting it off til next season will give them more time to do it justice; we can get the whole Reek thing, and theon will have more scenes, instead of being out of the picture for so long.

One thing I am certain of is that if Ramsay appears, he won't be called Ramsay Snow

this doesn't seem like much of an issue as Ramsay would never let anyone call him 'Snow' or bastard.

[Carne]

I am a hardore fan, I would never spoil the episode and the whole anticipation for myself by watching some preview. I never read the sample chapters for AFFC and ADWD on martin´s website either, no matter how long the wait for those books was.

30 seconds is hardly spoiling anything at all.

[Crown]

I thought Blackwater would be the worst episode to wait for. Frankly, I'm even more anticipated for the finale.

[Strider]

http://news.directv....-may-28-june-3/

70 minutes!!!!!

I wish they had made it 90 minutes. It's hard to see how the writers can do all that they need to to and pull everything together in only 70 minutes. But 70 is better than 60!

[Nuttz]

My predictions:

Dany's story will end with her leaving Qarth. I don't see it ending right after HotU. It's not a very good point to end the series (it doesn't promise more), plus I can't see them using the Qarth set for just one episode next season. Whether or not they introduce Arstan I'm not sure about. It would be a good little cliffhanger (of sorts) to go with the promise of more when she leaves Qarth. I think they'll forgo the Arstan deception though. It's much more obvious just dressing another character up, in the books we have th unreliable narrator to trick us. Here that obviously wouldn't work, plus revealing Barristan would be more impactful than just some random old guy.

Jon's is fairly obvious, he'll kill Qhorin (at his orders) and leave for Mance's camp. There may be a glimpse of it as his final shot.

Not sure where Tyrion's will end. My best guess is it will be a bittersweet season end for him, with obviously being one of the saviors of King's Landing but being demoted to Master of Coin and geting no recognition. Then all of the other stuff with Marg + Joff and whatever they're planning with Ros. Sansa will most likely end with Dontos. I'm picturing the last line of her final scene will be Dontos saying something along the lines of "I'm going to help you escape".

I really really really hope that they will end Davos's story on being picked up by Salador. There's going to be little enough story for them next season wihtout cutting a significant chunk out of it. I can see it happening though as they also need to show Stannis and Mel somehow.

Arya will obviously get the coin and see Jaqen face-change, but one thing I'm pretty sure of is thatshe will kill someone. She ahsn't really had a big character moment this season, in terms of a visually striking change. Most other characters have or will in this last episode. Plus Arya just continuing on her way with Hot Pir and Gendry is a weak end for her arc this season. Killing someone will add a big shock to the end of her arc, and it works well within the story. It will basically end like in the books, just not in Harrelhal.

I think Jaime and Brienne will end with them being captured by the Bloody Mummers. This is based a lot on preview info where they seem to be fighting. I would rather that was kept for next season and their scene(s) this episode be of them evading capture, but that's a weak finish much liek Arya's would be.

I think Robb's will end with the revelation that Talisa is Jeyne and on top of that a Lannister spy. It would be another very strong ending, much better than just "we're going to RIverrun". The evidence is there, and if this doesn't turn out to be true then I will be very confused. Episode 5 is the main bit of evidence, when Tywin sends his cousin (Reginald) back to Lannisport. This immediately comes off the heels of him speculating about how to defeat Robb. It doesn't strike me as odd that he would decide to use Reginald's daughter Jeyne as a spy. The plan may have been to just spy on him, or it may have been for Jeyne to seduce Robb and cause him to break his vows with the Freys. Either way, I definitely think all this (and don't forget the mysterious parchment Talisa was holding along with all the spy dialogue) is related. Otherwise, why waste time on introducing a new character (not from the books) that is a Lannister? Why have Tywin send him back the Lannisport, in the general vicinity of Robb?

Either that or Robb's story ends with him hearing of Bran and Rickon's "death".

Bran's story will obviously end with him leaving Winterfell and I have no idea where Theon's will end.

[King Tommen]

Here's where I'm having a tough time understanding what's going on with Theon's story:

They've mentioned that Ramsay will be arriving at Winterfell to retake it for Robb, so he will be in the finale. But they haven't cast an actor for Ramsay. It doesn't make any sense. If you don't want to budget the actor to be in this season (reasonable given how many new characters they needed to introduce this season) then why even have the Sack of Winterfell take place this season? Push it back to next year and introduce him like they will probably be doing with the Reeds and the Tully's. Or if you want to include the Sack of Winterfell but do it in a way where Ramsay isn't directly involved and only introduced next year, then don't have him be a part of the forces coming there.

You can get around an actor not being cast if you're only going to name check him (as they did with Stannis in Season 1) or just have an extra because he's got absolutely nothing to do but sit there under a hood (like with Jaqen in Season 1). But the Sack of Winterfell requires Ramsay to interact with Theon and take some significant action, you can't just let an unseen, untalking extra do that. Currently at Winterfell, they've only got Theon, Dagmer and Luwin who are characters of any importance left. How exactly is the audience supposed to understand exactly why the city will be burned down? Who is convincing Theon to open the gates for them?

A couple of notes from previous episodes that are probably important: Robb ordered Roose to relay to his bastard that all the Ironborn men at Winterfell except Theon would be allowed to go back to Pyke in exchange for letting them in and giving up Theon (which will obviously not be an order that is carried out, Theon's men are clearly going to get slaughtered).

Also, when discussing war strategy before deciding to go back to King's Landing, Tywin talked about the chances of Robb attacking Casterly Rock and Kevan noted that Robb had sent a "splinter force" to retake Winterfell and wouldn't dare march on Casterly Rock until he was at "full strength". I'm not sure if we're supposed to take the "splinter force" to mean Ramsay's men from the Dreadfort or not but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense if they're talking about Robb not being at full strength since Ramsay's men were never with him in the first place. So does that mean that Robb also has a small force that will meet up with Ramsay's men at Winterfell to mirror the betrayal that happened with Rodrik's crew in the books outside the gate? If so, Robb's crew would need the same jetpacks that Littlefinger has to zip around Westeros (either that or Ramsay's men are choosing to all ride turtles to get to Winterfell from the Dreadfort).

I'm really very interested in how this will all come off in the finale. I literally have no idea on what they plan on doing.

[Im With Stannis]

I actually think they'll reveal a lot in the HOU. What I think we'll see in the House of the Undying:

1. Raping rats

2. Ned saying "Let them grow up as brothers" and/or Lyanna saying "Promise me Ned"

3. The Trident

4. The Tourney at Harenhall

6. A Rheagar cameo with him naming Aegon- saying the TPTWP and the dragon must have 3 heads

7. Blue flower on the wall

8. Cloth dragon/some sort of dragon on strings alluding to the future Aegon being a fake

I do think that they'll leave out any RW stuff as it might be too obvious and they really want to punch the non-book readers where it hurts next season. It's important that they get to some of the Jon Snow and Rheagar stuff in there. You guys may know more then me- I don't think any Tower of Joy stuff is possible since Sean Bean wasn't asked to come back this season, and I don't think they have casted a Rheagar.

[dreamcatcher]

So if they do include visions, which ones do you think they'll include? I doubt the RW prediction, as mentioned before that would be too obvious. I also don't think they'd cast a Rhaegar...I'm a little rusty on the other visions. Any predictions?

They have no excuse for not casting Rhaegar. :frown5: I mean, they just need to find an unknown model to make a cameo and say two sentences. It would make book fans happy, and seeing as it's not a flashback (as ToJ scene would have to be when Ned was imprisoned), and there'll be other weird things in the HotU, I don't know why they wouldn't show him. That's a significant subplot they're missing here.

[Catastrophy]

I would be happy if we get any visions the House of the Undying, but we will more likely just hear prophecies. (I hope I am wrong and visions will be seen) :D

[Rhaquentis]

The truth is that the prophecy is not stressed in the show as much as it is in the books, so here's hoping they will keep mentioning it in the following seasons if the Rhaegar scene is not included.

[Hot Pie Targaryen]

I'm prayin' for some flayin'! I think we might see Theon getting flayed by an offscreen Bastard. Did anybody else notice his mention of eunuchs in episode 207?

[Magjee]

I really really really hope that they will end Davos's story on being picked up by Salador. There's going to be little enough story for them next season wihtout cutting a significant chunk out of it. I can see it happening though as they also need to show Stannis and Mel somehow.

I thought they might start season 3 with Davos stranded on the rock waiting to die.

For the Winterfell battle we might not see any of the fighting, just the aftermath of Brann and Rickon leaving the crypts, just like book.

Next season we meet up with Theon again, this time in chains at the Dreadfort.

[victim]

I'm really hoping that they utilise some of the flashbacks they shot for Season 1 but didn't use. Seeing the Mad King strangling Brandon and burning Rickard could be a wonderful thing for Dany to see and fits in perfectly with her arc. I can't imagine the HotU without visions, just hearing prophecies would be quite tame. I don't want to get my hopes up though, I just believe that this sequence has the potential to make or break Dany's second season arc, she's been boring thus far.

[sennahoj]

I expect Quaithe will play a role too, maybe dishing out prophecies. Just a hunch.

[Carne]

I really hope we see Sean Bean as one of Dany's visions.

Though I think he has said that he didn't film anything for season 2, so maybe he won't appear (or he was just saying that to throw people off).

[Fred Stark]

Unfortunately I think this episode will rush a bit from scene to scene. But here are my expectations:

-Jon VS Qhorin

-The Valar Morghulis scene and Jaqen H'gar changing his face

-The aftermath of Blackwater that includes Tyrion waking up, Joffrey rewarding people and the announcement of the weddings of JoffreyxMargery and TyrionxSansa.

-Brienne and Jamie being captured by the Brave Companions.

-Theon getting ready for Ramsay, maybe we'll get a glimpse of the Bolton army arriving and Luwin will advise Theon to join the Night's Watch. I don't believe the sack will happen until season 3 where we'll see Ramsay clearly.

-The house of the Undying....and I hope they show most of the prophecies. The House of The Undying without prophecies it would be like not showing the battle of Blackwater Bay.

- And finally the three blasts, followed by a scene where we scene hundreds of blue eyes shining in the dark of night.

I dont think they would be anouncing Tyrion marriage to Sansa in this episode.That would be like ruining the suprises of season 3 for the non readers.I guess Sansa arc in season 2 would end with her finding a note on her bed.

[victim]

I don't want Sean Bean in it because if I see Eddard Stark I may burst out in tears. It's worse enough when they simply mention him.