The Anti-Monarchy Thread

[Every]

I ran across this, which clarifies the status of various bits of royal property:

http://www.republic....perty/index.php

That link is very biased, and really doesn't clarify much. It doesn't back up its reasoning and it doesn't even go so far as to say that the royal family doesn't have a claim on the Crown Estate, only that it would be prohibitively expensive for them to try and pursue it:

If you think that the royals have a claim to the Crown Estate land if we were to abolish the monarchy and scrap the civil list, remember that part of the deal was that parliament assumed responsibility for paying for the Civil Service, judiciary and other costs of the state. If the royals were to reverse the deal they would find themselves out of pocket to the tune of hundreds of billions of pounds.

Monarchist websites seem to have a very different view on the issue. It seems like this is one of those legal questions that no one really knows the answer to, until and unless it's tested in court.

[Every]

Here you go, an FOI request and response on this question:

The Crown Estate's property assets are owned by the Sovereign in right of

the Crown, so the ownership passes with the Crown and is not the personal

possession of the Monarch or any individual member of the Royal Family.

The Crown Estate's primary role as set out in the Crown Estate Act 1961 is

to enhance the value of the estate and the income it generates. The

income surplus generated is paid directly to the Treasury for the benefit

of the UK taxpayer. For more information on the history of the ownership

of The Crown Estate, please visit our website:

[1]http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/about_us...

There are no provisions regarding the ownership of The Crown Estate in the

hypothetical situation where the monarchy was to be abolished, so I

cannot provide you with any information in that regard.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/do_the_royal_family_have_persona?unfold=1#incoming-175890

[Commodore]

Why is it ok for the Royal Family to live off the British taxpayer?

Do they ever get asked if they feel guilt or shame for their unearned wealth? I would love to hear a response to that question.

Perhaps they get a pass because wealth attained by genetic lottery does not reflect on our own shortcomings when it comes to financial success. We resent and lash out at those that achieve the things we wish we were capable of.

[Castel]

I for one, a Canadian in the US, will be watching the Jubilee festivities on the telly tomorrow morning. Well, until MC wrests control of the remote from me. (I'm recording it too, in case that happens.)

Naturally, I don't have the same point of view as those of the UK as I'm not directly affected by their presence. I like the tradition of them and seeing as Queen Elizabeth has been on all our currency for the entirety of most of our lives I can't imagine what will happen when she's no longer reigning. They are just human beings, yes, famous and revered and despised for simply being born into a specific family. That in and of itself is fascinating, no?

God Save the Queen! :P

What I find fascinating this that we keep around a living breathing reminder that at some point in the past we accepted that a bunch of people were the bestest people in the whole wide world because their ancestors killed fucked or bribed anyone that said otherwise.

Why is it ok for the Royal Family to live off the British taxpayer?

Do they ever get asked if they feel guilt or shame for their unearned wealth? I would love to hear a response to that question.

Perhaps they get a pass because wealth attained by genetic lottery does not reflect on our own shortcomings when it comes to financial success. We resent and lash out at those that achieve the things we wish we were capable of.

Well, to be fair I think that they do pay taxes, and if I recall after the whole hoopla of the royal wedding it turned out that they payed for it as well. The police officers are a whole 'nother issue.

Personally I don't resent them for being rich, it's the fact that they're important at all beyond "these are rich folk, okay" that's annoying. Not so much because of them, but because of how people react to them.

[Every]

Why is it ok for the Royal Family to live off the British taxpayer?

Do they ever get asked if they feel guilt or shame for their unearned wealth? I would love to hear a response to that question.

Perhaps they get a pass because wealth attained by genetic lottery does not reflect on our own shortcomings when it comes to financial success. We resent and lash out at those that achieve the things we wish we were capable of.

I've always thought this is kind of a funny argument from people who demonstrably have the benefits of access to education, access to computers, access to the internet and the time and leisure to read books, watch TV and post on message boards. Do you feel shame or guilt for your unearned good fortune? After all, you seem to have won the genetic lottery too, by not being the one in five of the world's population living in extreme poverty, or one of the hundreds of millions without access to clean drinking water, sanitary food, or liveable shelters.

I would bet the house on most of us here having won the genetic lottery in that sense. I don't think we should feel guilty for being lucky enough to be born into the situations we are, and I don't think anyone else should feel guilty for being born into a different situation, better or worse. It's what you do with it that counts. The royals are heavily involved with many charities, and both donate large amounts of money and generate massive amounts of publicity. Maybe they could do more, I really don't know, but they are doing something.

[Castel]

I've always thought this is kind of a funny argument from people who demonstrably have the benefits of access to education, access to computers, access to the internet and the time and leisure to read books, watch TV and post on message boards. Do you feel shame or guilt for your unearned good fortune? After all, you seem to have won the genetic lottery too, by not being the one in five of the world's population living in extreme poverty, or one of the hundreds of millions without access to clean drinking water, sanitary food, or liveable shelters.

It is weird to me that people jump on rich people like say Beyonce for getting a ridiculously priced cradle or something when they do the exact same thing with their gas guzzling SUVs and flatscreens and liposuction and the 699 other gratuitous and expensive things that they buy. To people living in poor areas it's all crazy and wasteful. Don't get me started on cafeterias.

What because someone is rich they don't get to be driven by the same consumerist impulses as the rest of the world?

[Maltaran]

Big Ben is not being renamed. The clock tower which houses said bell is being renamed.

(null)

[Howdyphillip]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpMHRkIkjWY

Doug Stanhope on Royalty... Contains foul language

[CuddleMeLoki]

Big Ben is not being renamed. The clock tower which houses said bell is being renamed.

/Puts gun away

[Robin Of House Hill]

Why is it ok for the Royal Family to live off the British taxpayer?

Because they are the biggest tourist attraction on the Isles and generate more revenue than they cost?

[The Marquis de Leech]

That link is very biased, and really doesn't clarify much. It doesn't back up its reasoning and it doesn't even go so far as to say that the royal family doesn't have a claim on the Crown Estate, only that it would be prohibitively expensive for them to try and pursue it:

If the worst came to the worst, Parliament (as part of any Republic Act) would be fully able to clarify that the Crown Estate belongs to the nation. That's the nice thing about having a Sovereign Parliament: it can do those sorts of things.

[The Marquis de Leech]

In other news, as part of the Queen's Birthday Honours in New Zealand (it's a public holiday), Prince Philip has received an Order of New Zealand. Leaving aside that he has only set foot here ten times in his life, I can think of more worthy recipients for an award that is limited to twenty living people. What did Phil do to deserve it, anyway? Services to racist remarks?

[El-ahrairah]

The thing I find least likeable about monarchy is the poor royal kids growing up into it all. It's awful that those children have that kind of pressure on them, being scrutinized every single moment, stalked by media from birth, everyone trying to catch every mistake they make, pictures in the papers every other day, "friends" taking advantage and a future of more of the same to look forward to. I would have hated it deeply if I were a princess.

I sincerely understand those royals who flee the whole scene and hide somewhere out of the limelight.

I agree that it's a horrid situation. But it's not the fault of the monarchy, it's the fault of the smallfolk's obnoxious celebrity culture.

Why is it ok for the Royal Family to live off the British taxpayer?

Do they ever get asked if they feel guilt or shame for their unearned wealth? I would love to hear a response to that question.

Perhaps they get a pass because wealth attained by genetic lottery does not reflect on our own shortcomings when it comes to financial success. We resent and lash out at those that achieve the things we wish we were capable of.

Why ever should they be ashamed? Millions and billions of people around the world inhereit stuff which they never earned. Those who have "earned" their wealth or power can easily come to have dreadfully entitled attitudles, thinking that they somehow "deserve" their riches. The people who should be ashamed of themselves are the self-made millionaires who have devoted their lives to the acqusition of money.

But Her Majesty knows she has been placed in her position solely by an accident of birth - or "by the grace of God", if you prefer. And she has devoted her life to serving her subjects.

[Alester Florent]

In other hilarious news, Big Ben is set to be renamed Elizabeth Tower? The mind boggles :lol:

The clock tower most people call Big Ben is actually called the Clock Tower - it's the tower that would be renamed in such an event. Big Ben is the (nick)name of the bell. So renaming the tower wouldn't make a difference to common parlance, since most people already use the "wrong" name for it anyway.

[deleted01]

The clock tower most people call Big Ben is actually called the Clock Tower - it's the tower that would be renamed in such an event. Big Ben is the (nick)name of the bell. So renaming the tower wouldn't make a difference to common parlance, since most people already use the "wrong" name for it anyway.

Why do people always feel the need to do this? I'm very much aware of this fact, thank you.

[The Marquis de Leech]

But Her Majesty knows she has been placed in her position solely by an accident of birth - or "by the grace of God", if you prefer. And she has devoted her life to serving her subjects.

Well, accident of birth combined with her Nazi-sympathising uncle running away with an American divorcee, resulting in her Dad becoming King.

[Lummel]

...But Her Majesty knows she has been placed in her position solely by an accident of birth - or "by the grace of God", if you prefer. And she has devoted her life to serving her subjects.

But why aren't you a good fifth monarchy man! Why do you deny the kingship of Christ :crying:

[Castel]

I agree that it's a horrid situation. But it's not the fault of the monarchy, it's the fault of the smallfolk's obnoxious celebrity culture.

Why ever should they be ashamed? Millions and billions of people around the world inhereit stuff which they never earned. Those who have "earned" their wealth or power can easily come to have dreadfully entitled attitudles, thinking that they somehow "deserve" their riches. The people who should be ashamed of themselves are the self-made millionaires who have devoted their lives to the acqusition of money.

But Her Majesty knows she has been placed in her position solely by an accident of birth - or "by the grace of God", if you prefer. And she has devoted her life to serving her subjects.

So...people who go out and make their own money should somehow be ashamed? I'm really not following the logic here. Should people live in relative poverty because they didn't have the luck to be born an aristocrat?

[Willie McBride]

That link is very biased, and really doesn't clarify much. It doesn't back up its reasoning and it doesn't even go so far as to say that the royal family doesn't have a claim on the Crown Estate, only that it would be prohibitively expensive for them to try and pursue it:

Monarchist websites seem to have a very different view on the issue. It seems like this is one of those legal questions that no one really knows the answer to, until and unless it's tested in court.

I can't believe there's someone who really thinks the status of Crown Estate is a problem!

When you're going to drastically change the fundamental nature of the state you don't need to worry about such trivial issues, just have the Parliament/Constituent Assembly/People-through-a-vote approve a law that says something like "the goods, existing on national territory, of the ex-kings and queens of the House of Windsor, of their consorts and of their descendants shall revert to the State. Transfers and the establishment of royal rights on the said goods which happened after [arbitrary date when you started seriously thinking about becoming a Republic], shall be null and void."

If you want to stay completely safe add "the members and descendants of the House of Windsor shall not be electors and they shall not hold public office nor elected offices. To the ex-kings and queens of the House of Windsor, to their consorts and their descendants shall be forbidden access and sojourn in the national territory."

[Mlle. Zabzie]

If you want to stay completely safe add "the members and descendants of the House of Windsor shall not be electors and they shall not hold public office nor elected offices. To the ex-kings and queens of the House of Windsor, to their consorts and their descendants shall be forbidden access and sojourn in the national territory."

Well, that's not really fair. I understand where you are coming from, but equally we shouldn't deny basic civil rights to the great, great, grandchild of someone just because of who their great, great, grandparent was. Absurd.