The Anti-Monarchy Thread

[Fragile Bird]

Alternatively we could just send them to the USA to work the chat show circuit.

I'm sorry and apologise for coming across as sniping at you Fragile Bird :( I'll have a go at being, ahem, less rambunctious. But really people shouldn't make me King, I'm pretty common. Anyhow my anti-monarchism has been stoked by hearing that my own parents, my own flesh and blood, are planning to celebrate the jubliee :crying: . They'd better watch out if they still want to get into a nice retirement home.

Now I did put a laughing smiley in there! But the chill I get when fearing disapprobation. . . .

Boy you're cruel, the talk show circuit, lol, to earn their keep?

But what was shocking, just shocking, good ser, the veiled threat to the parents. <wags finger> Now, now, they are elderly and are not going to change, are they? Did they not bring you up well? Can you not allow them some pleasures in life? :P

ETA: The CBC has a reporter in London and the joy! the celebration! the anticipation!

Oh, and those cute baby pictures of Charles! See, he used to be perfectly normal. Really.

Oh, what a grinch you are, my dear, dear Lummel. :lol:

[CuddleMeLoki]

Oh I agree with you there about how the Tories treat the lower classes, I don't think Labour really does anything better and dislike them both equally, both have proven time and again to be incompetent, but it always sways between the 2 of them like voting the other in will solve the Countries woes when really it's just more of the same.

I think there's a saying " It doesn't matter who you vote for The Government get in" or something very similar to that which is exactly how I feel.

Sadly all the main parties are the same and the smaller ones are either incompetent, racist or both. Isnt really any good option to pick, so we get the same crap everytime. But i guess we get what we deserve.

[CuddleMeLoki]

Ahh, :( double post.

[Darth Visenya]

Sadly all the main parties are the same and the smaller ones are either incompetent, racist or both. Isnt really any good option to pick, so we get the same crap everytime. But i guess we get what we deserve.

Sadly true :(.

[Daeric]

Well for a start we'd get a royal palace each (at least) and then some extra days off including freedom from tyranny and oppression day, yorkshire pudding day and florence nightingale night.

Without a Monarchy Yorkshire Puddings would be for Yorkshire folks only, true story :P

[Horza]

So technically Britain is not a democracy.

:o

As the Queen is God's divine representative and the sole executive, the United Kingdom is technically a theocracy.

[Every]

I'm not from the UK but I live in the Commonwealth and am quite happy with keeping the monarchy as a head of state. Having a king or queen is so much cooler than having a President.

Yeah, I'm in the Commonwealth and frankly I don't care one way or the other. My dad is a staunch anti-monarchist, my grandparents are royalists, but I don't see what the fuss is about. I think Australia will eventually become a republic, but I'm not in any hurry to see it happen.

Although I would welcome a President Attenborough. I would even welcome a dynastic autocracy of Attenboroughs. I grew up with his granddaughters, and they would make wonderful benign dictators (although science education would be made compulsory across all levels).

[Ordos]

I'm a monarchist as long as the king/queen is born, resides and has ancestry from MY country. Otherwise I'm a republican. I do not buy into the idea of a shared monarchy. Yeah you enjoy all the perks of independence, but for some reason your head of state rarely visits their own country and is the head of state of your former colonial rulers! Where is your sense of pride and identity. Seriously, If you buy into the idea that sharing a head of state AND being independent, then why not make a world President or King?

Therefore, I do not recognize Canada, Australia, New Zealand or any other Commonwealth Realm (Commonwealth of Nations is a different thing) independent nations. The British Empire still exists although now it's a democracy. Sorry Aussies, Canadians and Kiwis you are ALL British!

There is only one way for Australia for example to remain a monarchy AND call themselves Independent. Get ready for this: Queen Eizabeth MUST move to Australia, have a palace built in Canberra, and renounce sovereignty over ALL the other realms including the UK. So if the UK won't have em, who'll adopt the royals? Have a bidding war between the 16 realms!

[Fenryng]

While I confess at the outset to being a bloody colonialist, might I just suggest to the anti-monarchy people that if you had lived in this country during the eight year reign of King Bush II, you would return to your country and praise Her Royal Majesty as being the better option.

[gryphon strike]

I think it would be too expensive to get rid of them, the money for the honours list comes from the rents on london, land owned by the royal family and the gov makes a lot more than they pay out from those rents.

Fair is fair if your against an ineffectual tradition then you need to be against all of them such as the so called democracy.

[Tears of Lys]

If you Brits get rid of your monarchs, what are you going to do with the Crown Jewels? :leer: :drool:

[peterbound]

When I lived in the UK i never understood the fucking royalty, nor was I ever explained in a manner that made any sense as to why they are around. Revenue? Surely over the long term the cost of taking them off the public coffers would justify getting rid of the. Most tourist come and see the tower of london, and the history of the monarchy, not the actual monarchs. Fuck, half the other americans that i was stationed with didn't even know who the hell QE's husband was.

I just don't get it.

[delete this account pls]

When I lived in the UK i never understood the fucking royalty, nor was I ever explained in a manner that made any sense as to why they are around. Revenue? Surely over the long term the cost of taking them off the public coffers would justify getting rid of the. Most tourist come and see the tower of london, and the history of the monarchy, not the actual monarchs. Fuck, half the other americans that i was stationed with didn't even know who the hell QE's husband was.

I just don't get it.

Just think about how so many Americans lose their shit when you suggest changing the Constitution. It's the same thing. You can't just get rid of the queen, you have to completely rewrite the constitution. Even if it's just ceremonial, she's still the head of state.

It's like, a few years back we had a referendum on whether to become a republic or not. And the vote was sadly, overwhelmingly 'No'. But I think a big part of the reason why that was, was because the only other option presented was that the new head of state would be chosen solely by Parliament, and Australians basically said "fuck that noise, if we dont get a say then that's no different so we may as well keep the old one."

I'm a monarchist as long as the king/queen is born, resides and has ancestry from MY country. Otherwise I'm a republican. I do not buy into the idea of a shared monarchy. Yeah you enjoy all the perks of independence, but for some reason your head of state rarely visits their own country and is the head of state of your former colonial rulers! Where is your sense of pride and identity. Seriously, If you buy into the idea that sharing a head of state AND being independent, then why not make a world President or King?

Therefore, I do not recognize Canada, Australia, New Zealand or any other Commonwealth Realm (Commonwealth of Nations is a different thing) independent nations. The British Empire still exists although now it's a democracy. Sorry Aussies, Canadians and Kiwis you are ALL British!

There is only one way for Australia for example to remain a monarchy AND call themselves Independent. Get ready for this: Queen Eizabeth MUST move to Australia, have a palace built in Canberra, and renounce sovereignty over ALL the other realms including the UK. So if the UK won't have em, who'll adopt the royals? Have a bidding war between the 16 realms!

Hmmmm. Perhaps do not put forward this opinion if you are ever in Australia, NZ or Canada and wish to retain all of your teeth.

[Asarlai]

Well, if we're going to make large and unpopular claims, I'd like to be the first to recognize the German empire under a Saxon queen, a member of the House of Windsor, merely a renamed branch of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

[Lummel]

So technically Britain is not a democracy.

:o

Does this call for a new thread?

it's a constitutional monarchy old chap

I'm still not sure I understand, and maybe we're talking about different things here, but the German constitution basically simply declares popular sovereignty in one line to address the issue (as I understand it). It seems like a very straightforward definition, and I struggle to see what other sensible way there is for a modern, democratic state not weighed down by silly traditions like monarchy to define itself.

I'm probably over thinking it which is bad thing to do with the UK constitution. I suppose in the German case you could start with a blank sheet of paper, in the UK case if the monarchy were to vanish we'd have the choice of the blank sheet of paper or of taking what we have and making the minimal legal changes to allow it to continue to work.

Since all of our central government has emerged in history from the top down, it seems to me that switching to a bottom up system would require big changes in law and bigger ones in thinking. You know the fact is that the UK isn't a democratic state and it is weighed down by silly traditions including the monarchy, therefore I think sensible and straightforward solutions become difficult.

[Lummel]

Without a Monarchy Yorkshire Puddings would be for Yorkshire folks only, true story :P

Curse you Yorkshire! Lancashire Hot Pot day it is then!

When I lived in the UK i never understood the fucking royalty, nor was I ever explained in a manner that made any sense as to why they are around. Revenue? Surely over the long term the cost of taking them off the public coffers would justify getting rid of the. Most tourist come and see the tower of london, and the history of the monarchy, not the actual monarchs. Fuck, half the other americans that i was stationed with didn't even know who the hell QE's husband was.

I just don't get it.

They're around because we haven't got rid of them and we haven't got rid of them because they've manged to be not as obnoxious as the kings of france or portugal or greece etc

[Maltaran]

I think it would be too expensive to get rid of them, the money for the honours list comes from the rents on london, land owned by the royal family and the gov makes a lot more than they pay out from those rents.

Fair is fair if your against an ineffectual tradition then you need to be against all of them such as the so called democracy.

I imagine the government would still own the Crown Estate, so they still get that money.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I'm a rabid anti-monarchist, which makes me a bit unusual by New Zealand standards: most NZers simply don't care, as it's not something that affects out day-to-day lives.

Anyway, if it were up to me, I'd:

- Twink out the words 'Governor-General' and replace them with 'President' (or some Maori approximation thereof. Everything's prettier in Maori). Make it so that the new position needs to be approved by 2/3 of Parliament , rather than just appointed by the PM.

- Twink out 'Crown' and replace it with 'the Republic of New Zealand' (which, de facto is the case anyway: when people use Crown in its legal sense they mean the state, not the elderly lady on the other side of the planet).

- Stick Ed Hillary on the coinage in place of Liz. And replace our flag with the Silver Fern.

There. Sorted.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Anyhow it seems the Heavens aren't in favour of monarchy any more - they are forecast to weep and wail on the day.

Apparently it bucketed down on her coronation in 1953. Some things never change.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Seriously how would the government change. Blah, there'd be a host of things. Church of England's status would have to be addressed - HM Liz II is supreme governor of the CofE and the CofE is therefore the established state church in England and Wales,

Just England. The Church was disestablished in Wales a century or so ago.

the Crown Estate would have to be disposed of in, probably, various ways,

Retitle it public property/property of the Republic of Great Britain. Actually, I'm now having this image of Scotland becoming independent, then England becoming a Republic - Liz would have to move North.

the constitution would have to be changed - as it stands, saving those elements of soveriegnity which are shared, the Crown in Parliament is sovereign. If there is no crown that would have to be formally addressed which would mean defining the base and source of political authority in the UK which might be contraversal.

Nah, just have something like the Republic of Great Britain Act 2012, which vests supreme sovereignty with the people (and hence with the people's representatives), and any prerogative powers with the new ceremonial Head of State, whoever that is.