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TyrionsFlagon

Maynard Plumm and Bloodraven

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I was reading about Ser Plumm on the wiki and the last paragraph says it's implied that he worked really closely with Bloodraven or that he could have even been Bloodraven using some sorcery.

Can anybody tell why we think this?

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I'm 100% convinced he IS Bloodraven:

  • He implies knowing more about Egg's true identity than one would think - when he's patching up Dunk after the well confrontation.
  • Random talk at the campsite by the ferry, and during the wedding feast hints at his identity '... could be we're all bastards ...'
  • The hazy look about him, Dunk making the observation that the more you stare at him the less defined he appears to be... reminds me of Melisandre's glamour on Mance Rayder.

I can't reference the text directly right now, so I may be slightly inaccurate, but after the second reading of this story I had no doubts.

Edit: I also consider Brown Ben Plumm's claim of having some dragon in him - could be some distant relation to BR in some way - certainly there is a link there?

Edit again: I also think the size and strength of the army that showed up to end the party had to have been premeditated - someone was on the inside, and planned this. Also, who got the dwarves in there to steal the egg?

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I was reading about Ser Plumm on the wiki and the last paragraph says it's implied that he worked really closely with Bloodraven or that he could have even been Bloodraven using some sorcery.

Can anybody tell why we think this?

Have you read the mystery knight? After reading the story a couple of times I agree with mtwebster. Don't use the wiki to shortcut reading the stories - they are good!

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Plumm's cloak was as purple as name, though frayed about the edges and badly dyed. A moonstone brooch big as a hen's egg fastened it at the shoulder.

Dunk meets Plumm. He has a big brooch on his shoulder. We know from ADWD glamours can come in the form of jewellery, like Mance wears to appear as Rattleshirt.

We'd all be bastard sons of old King Aegon if half these tales were true."

"And who's to say we're not?" Ser Maynard quipped.

Bloodraven is a bastard of old King Aegon. Maynard Plumm makes a joke about it.

Dunk whirled. Through the rain, all he could make out was a hooded shape and a single pale white eye. It was only when the man came forward that the shadowed face beneath the cowl took on the familiar features of Ser Maynard Plumm, the pale eye no more than the moonstone brooch that pinned his cloak at the shoulder.

Dunk sees a single eye, before it forms into Maynard Plumm. Bloodraven is notorious for being one eyed.

So I surmise. He showed the ring to Maester Lothar, who delivered him to Butterwell, who no doubt pissed his breeches at the sight of it and started wondering if he had chosen the wrong side and how much Bloodraven knows of this conspiracy. The answer to that last is 'quite a lot.' " Plumm chuckled.

"Who are you?"

"A friend

Plumm apparently knows a lot about Bloodraven. Possibly because he is Bloodraven.

Dunk emerged with the rest of them, together with Ser Kyle the Cat and Glendon Ball. They had looked for Ser Maynard to join them, but Plumm had melted away sometime during the night.

Plumm 'melted away' because Bloodraven revealed himself.

How is that I come to find my cousin in this nest of adders, ser?

Bloodraven asks of Dunk. Earlier, Maynard Plumm asks:

One who has been watching you, and wondering at your presence in this nest of adders.

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Yeah, by all means read The Mystery Knight.

In short answer, yes, it's heavily implied. Plumm shows too much knowledge in his seemingly offhand remarks.

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I didn't read TMK until after coming to this forum and I thought it was a confirmed not a theory. I read the story completely thinking he was Bloodraven but it seemed that way from all of damn_999 posts.

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Something about Bloodraven arriving at Whitewalls seemed strange as well, not much time had passed between Ambrose Butterwell fleeing Whitewalls and being able to get to Bloodraven. So Bloodraven had to already have an army heading towards Whitewalls, as far as I can recollect Ambrose never sent a raven with Eggs message. Egg even said that it was his father coming with an army, which was a bluff. Then out of nowhere Bloodraven appears with an army catching everyone off guard, he must of had inside info which is why I am inclined to believe that Plumm was a glamour of Bloodraven.

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When I first read it I couldn't help think Maynard Plumm acted exactly how I thought Bloodraven would, but I just figured I was having a bit of a crackpot theory moment. Glad to see so many people agreeing that Bloodraven was using a glamour.

I love this quote from Bloodraven when he is healing Dunk, and just had to add it in:

"You would be surprised to know how many lords prefer their kings brave and stupid. Daemon is young dashing and looks good on a horse."

I think it raises and interesting question about glamours, that the magic involved is not specific to R'hollors follows, faceless men or followers of the Old Gods.

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I finished the story yesterday and the first thing I did this morning is look up this connection because it seemed pretty obvious to me.



Glad I am not alone.



80%+ chance, say?


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Bloodraven is no fool. After the Great Spring Sickness killed all the hostages of the IT taken from the rebel lords, he naturally expected them to act again. He knew this plot for a long time.


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Bloodraven is no fool. After the Great Spring Sickness killed all the hostages of the IT taken from the rebel lords, he naturally expected them to act again. He knew this plot for a long time.

Well, he's got a 1000 eyes and one.

I always wondered though, where did he learn to glamour? I know we cannot know it yet, but I am interested.

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I always wondered though, where did he learn to glamour? I know we cannot know it yet, but I am interested.

Or maybe Bloodraven is just warging Maynard Plum. We've never seen a person being warged except from the warg's perspective. We know he has that ability.

By the way, this thread made me feel stupid.

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Bloodraven's mother was Melissa (Mylessa) Blackwood. She has a perfect witch name. Blackwoods even made a statue of her. Melissa was the successor of Barba Bracken (Bittersteel's mother). It is highly possible that Melissa could haved used some potion on Aegon IV to abandon Barba and fall in love with herself.



Shiera Seastar was Bloodraven's mistress. Mad Danelle Lothston sent a significant force under the command of Bloodraven in the Second Blackfyre Rebellion. It is not mentioned but Mad Danelle and Bloodraven may have a relationship. Both Mad Danelle and Shiera are subject to dark rumours involving black magic and witchery.


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I missed a lot of the stuff that danm_999 mentioned, but the scene where Dunk sees a single eye (plus the way Plumm acted) immediately convinced me, that he was Bloodraven.



It's not a theory or 80%, it's 100% minus something very, very small. Just because it's not explicitly stated, doesn't mean that you can't put the pieces together yourself and come to an almost airtight conclusion.


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I wanted daemon to become King in the MK. He seemed pretty awesome. He just had a bunch of idiots following him. Fireballs son was awesome as well.

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Another hint from Bran's coma dream...

The ground was closer now, still far far away, a thousand miles away, but closer than it had been. It was cold here in the darkness. There was no sun, no stars, only the ground below coming up to smash him, and the grey mists, and the whispering voice. He wanted to cry. --Bran III, Game

Some claimed the King's Hand was a student of the dark arts who could change his face, put on the likeness of a one-eyed dog, even turn into a mist. Packs of gaunt gray wolves hunted down his foes, men said, and carrion crows spied for him and whispered secrets in his ear.

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Yeah, I thought it's Bloodraven for sure when I read it. I was kinda disappointed Bloodraven was not more friendly with Dunk when they meet at the end.


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