Rereading Tyrion IV (ASOS)

[Castellan]

EDIT: It makes you wonder if Tywin is not also bullshitting Tyrion completely when he claims Lollys is the best marriage offer he has got for Tyrion. Even if Tyrion is a dwarf, he is also the formal heir to Casterly Rock by Westerosi law, being Tywin's oldest male heir that hasn't joined a celibate order and is marrying material. It seems highly unlikely that no ambitious lord would have approached Tywin with an offer of a daughter of marriable age apart from Lollys. Especially since Tywin completely disregards Oberyn's reputation when he considers having Cersei marry again.

Yes, it seems likely that, had Tywin confirmed to potential in-laws that Tyrion was indeed his heir, at least some of them would be throwing their daughters at him. And even if the really great houses didn't, there would surely be someone midway between the most eligible women in the kingdom and Lollys. However, Tywin cannot bear to admit that Jaime is going to stay in the Kingsguard.

[Lummel]

Tyrion VII ASOS

Overview

Sorry for the delay, in keeping with the preceding posts I found this a tricky chapter to deal with in a few words...

Ok. This is the first of a series of four chapters, alternating between Tyrion and Sansa that take us through one day, the New Year's day of the new century – the new Lannister era - through Joffrey's wedding to Sansa's escape from King's Landing. So same structure as we had at the Battle of the Blackwater, perhaps there are some other similarities too.

This does mean that we have to read this chapter aware of Tyrion and his arc but also with an eye on the Purple Wedding story too. Since this sequence is going to end with Tyrion's imprisonment on charges of regicide we can look at the chapter as a contrast to the later events but it is also continuing the same themes as the mutton and pease dinner that we have been discussing.

I like this chapter. It is concise. It takes place in darkness. Is suffused with images of death and little snippets of domesticity. Some telling details of Tyrion's family life and the arrangement of his household go through his head while he slips down to the famous cellar where he has sex with Shae amongst the Dragon skulls. I can't remember anybody referring to it in a Sansa, Shae or Tyrion thread.

Observations

• “they shared a marriage bed, but that was all” - a symbol of intimacy becomes symbolic of isolation
  
• The marriage as a “cruel jape” - more mummery
  
• “it is high summer for House Lannister. So why am I so bloody cold” = “Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious summer by this sun of York”. :)
  
• Hmm so Tyrion is at least above Lord Giles in Tywin's eyes...
  
• “The dragon skulls were waiting”. Doom, death, Targaryens...
  
• “The skulls of the Targaryen dragons were emerging from the darkness around them, black amidst grey”.
  

Analysis

Scenes from a Marriage

This chapter, just like the mutton and pease dinner, is about separation and isolation as a contrast to legal and social union. Living together and apart. There is no shared communication. In fact only the bed and apartment is shared. Intimacy is denied. Tyrion believes that Sansa prays for his death but doesn't know. Tyrion withholds details about the Red Wedding from Sansa, but can't shield her from it, we might wonder if she is learning about it from other sources too. For all Tyrion's thoughts of protecting her he is a Lannister and as such her enemy. Tyrion seems aware and blind of this at the same time – witness the Lannister broach he pins his cloak with. His allegiance is plain. Literally in your face.

Sex

Physical intimacy is taking place down below, in the dark and out of sight, but with Shae. In the next chapter Sansa comments on often waking to find her husband absent. Perhaps he really is going off to the kitchens or to walk the wall. Personally I suspect that this means the early morning tryst with Shae was not unique but a common event.

Shae's monsters and maiden's game and her suggestion of drugging Sansa to have sex in the marital bed next to her comatose body remind me of Shae's words in Tyrion X ACOK “Would you like to fuck your kitchen wench, m'lord? You can dust me with flour and suck gravy off my titties if you...” This is Shae trying to keep her client pleased and excited. Problem being that Tyrion is aware of the rope necklace that Tywin promised to give to any whore that Tyrion brought to court. The physical relief is another problem...potentially to solved by shifting Shae off to Chataya's to marrying her off to Bronn or Ser Tallad. I wonder if when Tyrion counts off his problems on his fingers Shae is one that he doesn't mention aloud.

The suggested drugging and the skulls tie sex and death and the marriage bed as a dead place together. The symbolism is all grim.

Secrets and lies

All of this requires a web of deceit. Layers of irony that Tyrion doesn't trust Sansa who is successfully keeping a secret “girls her age were not known for keeping secrets”, while he puts his faith in Varys who makes his living by selling secrets “With those whisperings I must buy my life anew each day”.

Varys invents the cover story for Shae. Varys finds employment for snoring Brella practised “at being blind, deaf, and mute. The “mute” reminds me of Varys' little birds. Both women owe their livelihoods to Varys it would be surprising if they weren't useful to him in one way or another.

Varys is quite open that he won't protect Tyrion, but this doesn't make the official list of Tyrion's worries. But then at this stage he is still confident of surviving Joffrey's wedding day.

ETA some spelling, removed some italics

[Ragnorak]

Very nice summary, Lummel. It is an excellent foundation for the coming events.

I've been trying to reconcile Tyrion's delusional thoughts on Sansa with his honest and accurate assessment of his marriage (things like she probably prays for my death.) I think the real division is between the emotional and the intellectual. His desire to be loved and his insecurity about his own self conspire to blind him to the reality that he sees and knows to be true. They also prevent him from putting certain pieces together.

her mother’s corpse had been dumped naked into the Green Fork in a savage mockery of House Tully’s funeral customs

He had wrapped his cloak around her shoulders and sworn to protect her, but that was as cruel a jape as the crown the Freys had placed atop the head of Robb Stark’s direwolf after they’d sewn it onto his headless corpse

He compares his marriage to the cruelty of the Red Wedding but he doesn't seem to understand that it is in fact a part of the Red Wedding and Tywin's Rains of Castamere on House Stark.

“Most men,” the boy said. “But not you.”

“No,” Tyrion admitted, “not me. I seldom even dream of dragons anymore. There are no dragons.” He scooped up the fallen bearskin.

He's caught somewhere between denying and facing his hard truth between what he feels and what he thinks. There's also a bit of symmetry between this chapter and that quote with Tyrion meeting Shae among the dragon skulls (in darkness too without his torch to project the shadows of power) and his picking up the bearskin with all its symbolism and his using a lion brooch on his cloak. He's chasing the lie of love (Shae) in the darkness of his own dead dreams.

[Lummel]

Exactly. Sansa's value as an asset is enhanced by the Red Wedding. Robb's murder transforms her into a heir. Marriage to Tyrion is Tywin closing the circle.

Tyrion and Shae among the dragon skulls reminds me of the puppet show in AFFC. It is something like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. There's this futility in the midst of the remains of the old regime.

[Blisscraft]

Don't want to belabor the trust issue too much, however, it's clear from this chapter that the lack of trust is at the core of Tyrion's uneasiness and "discontent." Tyrion cannot trust because he was betrayed. Tyrion's betrayal happened two weeks after his marriage to Tysha. Jaime and Tywin exposed her as a "whore" and not the sweet young girl Tyrion thought was his "true wife," his true love. Tyrion has never recovered from this betrayal. Consequently, Tyrion experienced(s) the dangers that follow the pain of betrayal.

I referred to James Hillman above with regard to the Cupid (Eros) and Psyche story. Once one is betrayed by a beloved and trust is lost, there are five negative reactions that can effect one's behavior: revenge, denial, cynicism, self betrayal, and paranoid (Hillman's term. No relation to the DSM versions). Tyrion's story is a path through these negative reactions and perhaps is why he is so often disturbing.

Revenge, an eye for an eye, as a reaction to betrayal, is easily understood. In terms of Tyrion specifically, and the Lannisters generally, this appears in the need to "pay one's debts." It's the Rains of Castemere, the Red Wedding, and Symon Silvertoungue. And more later. . .in Tyrion's story.

Denial is a reaction to betrayal wherein the former beloved, in Tyrion's case, Tysha, becomes all negative things. Tysha never loved him, was a gold digger, a fraud. Any positive qualities Tysha possessed are gone. She becomes nothing. All that Tyrion saw, but never noticed poisons her as an individual. The version of his wife's "sigil" is a good example of Tyrion's denial of Tysha's positive qualities and his focus upon the negative.

Cynicism is a reaction that manifests itself as an extension of denial. Cynicism goes beyond the particular person, Tysha, and devours the general concept of love. This is the "love stinks" attitude. Tyrion expresses this by whoring rather than settling down and finding a "nice girl."

Self betrayal has to do with the horror and embarrassment one experiences over all of the little secrets and poems and thoughts we shared with the beloved and never told to anyone else, now exposed to the light of day. Hillman writes, "all [are] reduced to something ridiculous, laughed at boorishly, explained in barnyard language as merde, just so much crap." The betrayed person not only can no longer trust the beloved, the betrayed can no longer trust themselves. The consequence is that the betrayed (now known self betrayer) refuses to be what he/she is and begins to cheat oneself with excuses and bullshit.

Tyrion most of the time shows this through his constant expressions of self pity. His "marriage" to Sansa is pretty classic. He wants her to see him, but won't let her see. He wants to comfort her after the devasting news about the RW, but won't open the heavy oaken door and reveal himself to her. Tyrion blames her in that, he makes excuses on her behalf without any consultation. She wouldn't want him. She 'hoards her tears to herself." She doesn't need more "fodder for her nightmares."

Finally, there is paranoid. This is pretty much a Lannister characteristic. The idea is that the one betrayed will never, ever, let that happen again. This relationship requries a loyalty oath. (Think, Prenup). Tyrion wants to build a perfect relationship where he cannot be hurt by it. He tries to do this with Shae. In the present chapter with sex among the skulls, (a symbol of death), it isn't working, if it ever worked at all. Varys will tell the truth about Shae if the Queen asks. The false story, fabricated to keep Shae close is wearing thin and won't protect Tyrion much longer.

What's the point of all this betrayal and poor reactions one may have to it? Without it, there would be no need for forgiveness. "Neither trust nor forgiveness could be fully realized without betrayal," writes Hillman. It's a spiritual experience. Even gods are betrayed, like Cupid and Jesus and others.

[Lummel]

What are we looking for then Missus? That Tyrion forgives himself or that someone forgives him?

[Blisscraft]

Oh Sweet, Lummel, "Missus," thank you. I didn't want to go all "Hell's Grannies" on you.

Honestly, I didn't want to get too far afield from the present chapters and there are many more events ahead. I will tanalize you with the idea that what awaits Tyrion (and the other characters who never knew their mothers because they died giving birth to them) is the anima and the restoration to balance. Just as in the E/P story and others, the feminine principle renews.

BTW: Why does everyone want to call the Joff/Marg wedding the Purple Wedding. Shouldn't it be called the "Wine Wedding?"

[1234567]

BTW: Why does everyone want to call the Joff/Marg wedding the Purple Wedding. Shouldn't it be called the "Wine Wedding?"

Purple Amythests from Asshai.

[Elba the Intoner]

He's caught somewhere between denying and facing his hard truth between what he feels and what he thinks.

I think this sums up Tyrion perfectly and it takes me back to his advice to Jon at the beginning of AGOT that he should never let the word bastard bother him, and never let others see that it can hurt him. This is good advice and Jon takes it but ironically, Tyrion does not do that. He does not take his own good advice and allows his dwarfism (all dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes) to define and embitter him.

[Ragnorak]

I thought the purple came from the color of Joffrey's face.

Blisscraft, I really like the way you tied the betrayal theme to Cupid and Psyche as well as Tyrion to Hillman's terms. I've always seen Tyrion as trapped in the lie of the worldview he bought into from Tywin's deceit. Viewed through a betrayal prism the focus shifts to Jaime because Tyrion never really trusted Tywin in a way he could be truly betrayed. I'm looking forward to your take on the prison break.

[Blisscraft]

Thank you, Ragnorak. Hillman is interesting and insightful. His ideas regarding the E/P story add another dimension to the typical Beauty the Beast reading. Something else to consider, especially as it figures throughout the series.

Aren't those amethysts black? Or so purple they look black. I like the idea of a "wine wedding" not only because of the color of the delivery device, the wine, for the poison, but also eveytime I think about it I think of Billi Idol's "White Wedding." But I substitute the word "whte" for "wine." It's a catchy tune. Not Cole Porter, but . . . who is?

[Lummel]

If we rename Joffrey's wedding then we'll have to rename Edmure's wedding so the names match I suppose ;)

[butterbumps!]

According to Septon Barth: "Death comes out of the dragon's mouth." Interesting that this is where Shae emerges from in the scene, given that the next 24 hours will be setting in motion the mortal fates of Joff, herself and Tywin.

[Lummel]

How sad I am ( :crying: ) that you didn't love that last chapter as much as I did. Well, to make amends and to whet your appetite for the up coming seventy-seven course dinner that Ragnorak is currently cooking up for us here is the wedding breakfast as experienced by Sansa as a little taster..

Sansa IV ASOS

Overview

Sansa sees two castles in the sky combine to become one. One of her maids looks and sees it as a ruin. Well two noble houses are coming together this day, the first of a new century, a new era, a new order for Westeros, but the result as we shall see will be ruinous, as vain and fantastical as something from Don Quixote.

Observations

• Tywin is present at the wedding breakfast but says nothing in this chapter
  
• Sansa asks Brella if she has seen Tyrion. Brella says no, but she's used to being blind, deaf and mute having worked for Renly ;)
  
• Shae is impressed by Ellaria Sand – a role model? Did she aspire to being 'almost a princess' beforehand or has Ellaria sparked off a new ambition for her?
  
• I was surprised that Shae has short hair
  
• Amazingly Tyrion manages to hold his tongue for once but to my mind comes across as fairly sharp towards Poderick and Sansa, but also pleasingly droll
  

Analysis

The Book

Lives of the Four Kings as chopped up by Joffrey ties a number of themes and motives together, destruction – particularly of the culturally valuable, literacy (Sansa imagining the fat lips moving as Joffrey sounds out the words), learning and education (Tyrion's hope that the boy will learn through reading), Joffrey's lack of skill with a sword (seven hacks with a super sharp sword to kill a book? Come on...) and of course it provides a moment for the penny to drop.

First Tyrion realises that Joffrey ordered the attempt on Bran's life...then Joffrey realises that Uncle Imp knows...

Notice Garlan the Gallant and Ser Kevan speaking up for the book against the King and Oberyn's comments. It's an appropriately valuable gift, just utterly unappreciated.

At the same time it conveys this message of the bad king and the uncle ruling through a succession of weak kings. A message that might be open to misinterpretation in the light of subsequent events.

Baelor the Blessed

This is one of those interesting moments when GRRM approaches his setting from a variety of angles – myth, official history and unofficial history. I feel it is a warning that will be repeated in the dissonance between the songs that will be sung in the next chapter and the actual events that we witnessed during the Battle of the Blackwater. There is a warning here that what we see may not be the story that will eventually be told, of course Tyrion will gets to experience that at first hand in the very near future.

Oberyn seems to me to be reaching out to Tyrion here. Has this been a missed opportunity? Has Tyrion looked at the Dornish as a problem when he could have seen them as an opportunity instead?

[Fire Eater]

"Oh, yes," said Tyrion. "I am the very soul of kindness. And I know about bad dreams."

That's something Cersei can attest to in AFfC when her nightmares have Tyrion in them.

"To Aegon. What a fortunate fellow. Two sisters, two wives and three dragons, what more could a man ask for?"

This is just me, but Penny has become like a sister to Tyrion, even more so than his actual sister, Cersei. If he marries Dany before he annuls his marriage to Sansa he will have two wives and three dragons through the marriage. Or Sansa is his second wife, and the three dragons he comes upon as Dany's hand.

[Lummel]

I read that in the light of his relationship with Cersei - so as an example of sarcasm, though of course, given his fantasy of watching family members burn shared with us in Tyrion II AGOT I'm sure he'd like some dragons too.

[Danelle]

I read that in the light of his relationship with Cersei - so as an example of sarcasm, though of course, given his fantasy of watching family members burn shared with us in Tyrion II AGOT I'm sure he'd like some dragons too.

Didn't Tyrion as a child fantasized that he was a lost Targaryen princeling? Since he was a little boy he was fascinated by dragons and Targaryens.

[Lummel]

I remember the dragons, that's already mentioned in AGOT, but not the Targaryen business, is that from ADWD or just something I've forgotten?

Here's something I saw in the newspaper that has a (barely) tangential relevance to what will happen in AFFC and ADWD, I'll put it in spoiler tags as a curiosity if you are interested

The botched attack by John Bean, a hunchbacked dwarf who brandished a pistol at the royal carriage, led to a rough weekend for Londoners with spinal deformities. After Bean's description was circulated, innocent hunchbacks were detained in what Murphy calls "one of the most ludicrous episodes in the history of police profiling". Once apprehended, Bean was charged with common assault, and sentenced to 18 months' hard labour. He later committed bigamy, and took poison in 1882.

From a review of "Shooting Victoria"

[Blisscraft]

Lummel - Loved the last chapter and would have written a bit more, but I don't want to be a "poster" hog. :drool: Honestly, I think many of us were distracted by the new Ariane chapter. It seems most of this threads posters were reading the chapter and sharing thoughts on this new bit of business.

Need to reread the new chapter and if I have anything to add, I'll post something. I will add that the last chapter reminds me of a stick of dynamite concealed in the size of a firecracker.

[A wilding]

Didn't Tyrion as a child fantasized that he was a lost Targaryen princeling? Since he was a little boy he was fascinated by dragons and Targaryens.

Various people on the board have fantasised Tyrion is a lost Targaryen, but Tyrion was merely fascinated by dragons as a boy. Being curious and well read he knows all about recent Westeros history, in which the Targaryens naturally feature prominently.