The Flowering of Arya - Impact on Her character development

[The Sleeper]

Revenge is her motive, not freedom.

Revenge is a motive. It is also a crutch to keep her going. The personal transgressions that eaned her intended victims their place in her list made her feel powerless. Like Weese.

[jarl the climber]

She outright refuses the possibility of being married. She refuses to reveal her identity on numerous occasions as it would mean placing her fate in the hands of people she doesn't know if she can trust. She tries to escape the BWB and was always looking to escape them until she made Beric swear to her that he would return her to her mother. She might have stumbled on the FM, but she stays with them willingly. It's not like she has thought twice before about striking off on her own. And learning the abilities of the FM, sure helps someone be self-reliant. She's reactionary because she hasn't turned twelve yet. That doesn't mean she doesn't have natural tendencies due to her character.

When does she refuse rhe possibility of being married in the books? She says something along those lines in the TV show but the point is she hasn't hit puberty yet. Its one thing for her to say that now once she gets to be 15 or 16 or whatever she might modify her veiws a little bit or maybe not. Still if she is dedicated to getting revenge, couldn't a marriage play a part in her doing that? Of course it could and her training as a FM, which requires her to put aside her true self could prepare her for doing that.

I can not say thst she stumbled on to the FM. The guy gave her a coin. She is of noble birth, shes been taught by various tutors, she can read and write. She has a knack for keeping her head down and fading into the woodwork considering that people are looking for her. I think her nightly prayers draw Jaquen to her as well as his debt to her. So he saw some potential in her and gave her the coin. On a certian level she is drawn to this because it would give her power, she does not want to be a mouse. At the same time this group has an agenda of its own and is training Arya because she can help advance it. What this agenda is and whether it fits in with what she wants is a different matter. Then again by the time she finds out there might not be enough of her left to care.

[Alia of the knife]

WOW. Baffling.

Seeing people violently murdered is fine, but talking about a natural process without which none of us would even be alive is...OBSCENE?

Baffling.

Agreed.

It seems that some would rather watch her turn into a cold-blooded psycho, (and thats not so much on this thread as others I've seen), than perhaps have the same normal emotions and experiences that a young adult, (and I'm talking an adult Arya here), woman would be inclinded to have after "flowering."

I want her to have justice for herself and her family, as well as a resolution, but more importantly I'd like to see her have peace.

[The Sleeper]

When does she refuse rhe possibility of being married in the books? She says something along those lines in the TV show but the point is she hasn't hit puberty yet. Its one thing for her to say that now once she gets to be 15 or 16 or whatever she might modify her veiws a little bit or maybe not. Still if she is dedicated to getting revenge, couldn't a marriage play a part in her doing that? Of course it could and her training as a FM, which requires her to put aside her true self could prepare her for doing that.

I can not say thst she stumbled on to the FM. The guy gave her a coin. She is of noble birth, shes been taught by various tutors, she can read and write. She has a knack for keeping her head down and fading into the woodwork considering that people are looking for her. I think her nightly prayers draw Jaquen to her as well as his debt to her. So he saw some potential in her and gave her the coin. On a certian level she is drawn to this because it would give her power, she does not want to be a mouse. At the same time this group has an agenda of its own and is training Arya because she can help advance it. What this agenda is and whether it fits in with what she wants is a different matter. Then again by the time she finds out there might not be enough of her left to care.

That actually is from the books. I don't discount the possibility of her getting married if that is what she wants. I very much see a potential bloodbath if someone tries to force her to marry.

As far as the FM are concerned, she got on the ship because it was the only one around. She was trying to get to the Wall. The captain delivered her straight to the temple of Black and White. The FM may have an agenda but so does she. She stays with them willingly with a goal in mind. To learn how to change her face.

[Alia of the knife]

I think given the miasma of emotions she's already endured- watching her Father, Mother and Brother murdered, she is a leaf in the wind right now, grasping onto anything that might give her control.

I think ultimately, her goal is to get back to Jon and Winterfell, especially when she finds out that the KM and the FM are most likely just as rotten as pretty Joffery was underneath, though he presents himself in a way that is non-threatening and "harmless."

She was good at seeing through Joffrey, but it may take her a little time to figure out KM.

The KM is the Leader of a Death Cult.

Sansa is yet again being manipulated and used by a maniac who may be now spreading his intrigues too thin.

I think when both these Sisters get tired of being used for everyone elses purposes, thats when they will be the most dangerous.

[Fender]

Yes, the Lion Kid was just waiting for her flowering

She was desperated when she saw the blood and she tried to hide it, Shae tried to help and everything

Arya doesn't care about thiese stuff, she said she doesn't want to be a lady, she always liked boy stuff

This is a relatively old post and I don't particularly enjoy nitpicking, but I'd like to precise that Shae had absolutely nothing to do with Sansa's flowering. That was the show, and nothing cannon. 2 parallel and diverging universes, there.

[Fender]

Or maybe she does ?

Lyrics to the song "Five Year Plan" by DRI. \m/ :devil:

Never heard that song before, but it brought me a smile and a lot of pleasant imagery. Thank you for sharing.

[Florina Laufeyson]

As someone who "gets" Arya, and was basically IRL Arya when i was a kid, (you know, without the murder and heartbreak) i really think that Arya's flowering isnt gonna turn into a sappy story about her finding her "womanhood" and becoming enamored with dudes all over the place. Shes gonna grow and mature a bit. She isnt gonna put emphasis on her moon's blood, shes gonna be like "....Oh....well thats that. This sure is messy. And kinda painful." I know that was my reaction, har! It isnt gonna make her change her direction. If anything, shes gonna be more dead set on righting some serious wrongs that have been done.

I think given the miasma of emotions she's already endured- watching her Father, Mother and Brother murdered, she is a leaf in the wind right now, grasping onto anything that might give her control.

I think ultimately, her goal is to get back to Jon and Winterfell, especially when she finds out that the KM and the FM are most likely just as rotten as pretty Joffery was underneath, though he presents himself in a way that is non-threatening and "harmless."

She was good at seeing through Joffrey, but it may take her a little time to figure out KM.

Yes. Hell, personally i think Arya has been hanging on to her sanity better than most would at her age and situation. When she figures out what the Kindly Man is all about really, shits gonna get real up in that there House of Black and White.

Just like me, Arya is the kind of person who just doesnt take shit from nobody.

As for my "dear little tomboy becoming a woman." umm lol. If Arya ever does become emotionally invested in a dude, i will not begrudge her that. I think that would make me quite the hypocrite. :)

[ARYa_Nym]

When does she refuse rhe possibility of being married in the books? She says something along those lines in the TV show but the point is she hasn't hit puberty yet. Its one thing for her to say that now once she gets to be 15 or 16 or whatever she might modify her veiws a little bit or maybe not. Still if she is dedicated to getting revenge, couldn't a marriage play a part in her doing that? Of course it could and her training as a FM, which requires her to put aside her true self could prepare her for doing that.

I can not say thst she stumbled on to the FM. The guy gave her a coin. She is of noble birth, shes been taught by various tutors, she can read and write. She has a knack for keeping her head down and fading into the woodwork considering that people are looking for her. I think her nightly prayers draw Jaquen to her as well as his debt to her. So he saw some potential in her and gave her the coin. On a certian level she is drawn to this because it would give her power, she does not want to be a mouse. At the same time this group has an agenda of its own and is training Arya because she can help advance it. What this agenda is and whether it fits in with what she wants is a different matter. Then again by the time she finds out there might not be enough of her left to care.

Once when Ned and Arya are having their conversation. Another time she pushes one of the BWB members away who jokingly said that they would marry her one day.

The latest is one I posted earlier. The KM offered marriage as an alternative.

Or if it is marriage and children you desire, tell me, and we shall find a husband for you. Some honest apprentice boy, a rich old man, aseafarer, whatever you desire.” She wanted none of that. Wordless, she shook her head.

There's also the No Featherbed for Me song which Tom sung. Arya is the forest lass in the song. Right around when it was being sung she said that she looked like an oak tree with all the acorns on her dress.

My featherbed is deep and soft, and there I’ll lay you down,

I’ll dress you all in yellow silk, and on your head a crown.

For you shall be my lady love, and I shall be your lord.

I’ll always keep you warm and safe, and guard you with my sword.

…And how she smiled and how she laughed, the maiden of the tree

She spun away and said to him, no featherbed for me.

I’ll wear a gown of golden leaves, and bind my hair with grass

But you can be my forest love, and me your forest lass.

The forest lass rejects the man's terms. If he wants to love her it has to be on her terms. I think she is rejecting a conventional relationship in this song.

Okay, here goes.

Brienne is not a true tomboy because on a deeper level, she does yearn for the traditional southron "feminine" role. She is good at the tomboy / warrior-woman activities, she has the physical and mental capabilities for it, but it's not really where her heart is. In her heart, she's more like Sansa than Arya - naive idealism, courtly love, songs and stories, etc. She yearns to be a woman more like (for example) Margaery Tyrell, but because of her build and looks, that is simply not available, so she has taken a path where she adapts to what physical gifts she has been given.

As a result of her martial prowess, Brienne is more confident in her ability to defend herself. Yet, emotionally and socially, she's basically been bullied her whole life, and has little confidence in her very ability to be womanly (by her standards, that is). Nowhere is this more clear than when Brienne pours her heart out to the Elder Brother at the Quiet Isle.

The most clear emotionally commonality Brienne has with Arya is a negative self-image about her looks. (And Arya may yet grow out of that if she realizes her ugliness is a myth, as we've discussed in this thread and others.)

Otherwise, I would not put Brienne down as a true tomboy, but rather a tomboy-by-default.

Arya seems to desire being a warrior woman, and unlike Brienne there is nothing to say she is naturally built for it. She is just combative, ferocious, and quick-to-the-kill. She has the wolf-blood, and whatever environment you'd put her in, she has as warrior's instinct and ferocity. Even Eddard Stark (who wanted a more conventional path for her) understands that about her, and decides not to pointlessly fight it.

I think Arya doesn't want to be a mouse again and sees the FM as a way to do that. She felt brave when Jaqen was around her. I don't think she specifically wants to be a warrior and I don't think she wants to be a fighter like Brienne. It also would not work for her imo because of her build. She's better at using stealth,poison, manipulation, and in the future perhaps sorcery.

The KM specifically tells her that the FM are not warriors.

"Death holds no sweetness in this house. We are not warriors, nor soldiers, nor swaggering bravos puffed up with pride. We do not kill to serve some lord, to fatten our purses, to stroke our vanity. We never give the gift to please ourselves. Nor do we choose the ones we kill. We are but servants of the God of Many Faces.”

Arya idolized Queen Nymeria but there are SSMs which say that she wasn't a Brienne/Xena type.

Catelyn saw Arya as a warrior but it could be in the sense of just commanding Nymeria's wolves rather than a soldier warrior type.

As for tomboys personally I don't think liking boys is mutually exclusive to it. I think tomboys get mixed up with butch a lot. Arya was called butch in a thread once. She's not.

This is from urbandictionary, lol.

Tomboys can be of any age. The term usually refers to someone of the female gender who enjoys participating in typically male gender activities. It can range from cars to canoeing, and everything 'typically' male in our society. Tomboys are not only capable of easily navigating in a man's world, but they can also be feminine and sexy when they desire to be. They do it because they want to, not because they feel cultural pressure to do so. Tomboys will look you in the eyes when speaking to you. Tomboys tend to chose careers that are in the hard sciences - like math, engineering, architecture, etc... Tomboys can have difficulty relating to Girly-Girls because tomboys aren't as restricted in their ability to express themselves honestly and openly - whereas Girly-Girls tend to want to please, and thus work hard at conforming and trying to be pleasant, even when they are really ticked off! Tomboys friends are usually males, and they make really good wives. They can be sexy when necessary, and they can change a tire or rewire a lamp when needed. They aren't restricted by thoughts like, "I can't do that, it isn't feminine"! Tomboys are terrific!

Let's say a girl is a gamer IRL. She hangs with the guys. Maybe she prefers wearing a t shirt and jeans than a dress. She can still like guys just like the feminine girls can.

Arya herself may or may not develop a sexual desire for males but I dont think simply being a tomboy would prevent that. Other things such as sexual orientation, trauma, and trust issues would factor in more.

Cersei was actively discouraged from acting 'like a boy', while Arya has been enabled and aided in doing so. By Ned and Yoren in particular.

If Arya had been raised as Cersei was, I think she probably would harbour the very same distaste for her gender.

Arya was too from Catelyn and Septa Mordane. Ned allowed her to keep Needle but he told her that she would be married one day so he also wasn't supportive of her doing things that boys want to do. He told her that her sons would do those things not her.

[Quiet Isle]

I think given the miasma of emotions she's already endured- watching her Father, Mother and Brother murdered, she is a leaf in the wind right now, grasping onto anything that might give her control.

I think ultimately, her goal is to get back to Jon and Winterfell, especially when she finds out that the KM and the FM are most likely just as rotten as pretty Joffery was underneath, though he presents himself in a way that is non-threatening and "harmless."

She was good at seeing through Joffrey, but it may take her a little time to figure out KM.

The KM is the Leader of a Death Cult.

Sansa is yet again being manipulated and used by a maniac who may be now spreading his intrigues too thin.

I think when both these Sisters get tired of being used for everyone elses purposes, thats when they will be the most dangerous.

Yeah baby. i so agree. and it's going to be badass when they get together. all the threads on Sansa being passive makes me lol. even wolves must wait for the time to attack.

and since i started this thread, i want to say this. wolves mate for life. watch for this. and it's going to be a PASSIONATE thing. and the women choose it. they choose it. i can't wait to turn the page.

[ShowOverBooks]

Ned allowed her to keep Needle but he told her that she would be married one day so he also wasn't supportive of her doing things that boys want to do. He told her that her sons would do those things not her.

Yet he hired Syrio for her. Talk about sending mixed signals.

[ARYa_Nym]

Yet he hired Syrio for her. Talk about sending mixed signals.

I believe he indulged her because he thought that denying her would make her want it more. Permitting it then would in his eyes allow her to grow out of her phase.

She was still going to be married and that's part of the reason why she had to go to KL. Catelyn said that she needed refinement.

[Quiet Isle]

Yet he hired Syrio for her. Talk about sending mixed signals.

well it was a confusing time. it is today. ned was willing to be open to it. love that Father. he loved and respected his children and all their differences. not to speak of the fact that he had a sister who was a badass and gorgeous. god bless him. he wanted the best for his girls. but he knew it could turn dark - give em a sword.

[Alia of the knife]

As someone who "gets" Arya, and was basically IRL Arya when i was a kid, (you know, without the murder and heartbreak) i really think that Arya's flowering isnt gonna turn into a sappy story about her finding her "womanhood" and becoming enamored with dudes all over the place. Shes gonna grow and mature a bit. She isnt gonna put emphasis on her moon's blood, shes gonna be like "....Oh....well thats that. This sure is messy. And kinda painful." I know that was my reaction, har! It isnt gonna make her change her direction. If anything, shes gonna be more dead set on righting some serious wrongs that have been done.

Yes. Hell, personally i think Arya has been hanging on to her sanity better than most would at her age and situation. When she figures out what the Kindly Man is all about really, shits gonna get real up in that there House of Black and White.

Just like me, Arya is the kind of person who just doesnt take shit from nobody.

As for my "dear little tomboy becoming a woman." umm lol. If Arya ever does become emotionally invested in a dude, i will not begrudge her that. I think that would make me quite the hypocrite. :)

Some people misunderstand that you don't have to compromise your femininity to pursue ideals such as justice or honor. In this time, women were not held to have "honor" as indivivdual selves.

Their menfolk had to to fight for it, had to protect it, and could not be shamed by any perception lack thereof.

The things that set the she-wolves, (and perhaps the Mormont she-bears), apart from even the Dornish women, is that they claimed the idenity and chilvaric ideal of "honor," for themselves, and didn't wait for someone else to fight for it for them, on their behalf, or otherwise.

IF Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree, then honor meant a great deal to that Knight- enough that "he" donned patchwork armor to fight on behalf of a snubbed Crannogman.

As Butterbumps once posted about the KotLT, I hope that it is not just a salacious plot device for Lyanna and Rhaegar to have met, but about an individual who could have stood alone to represent a dying tradition in a Kingdom being consumed by corruption and cynicism.

And women like Lyanna, Brienne, and Arya, no matter what propelled them to that choice, (and no matter what dominates their heart Brienne=Sansa, Lyanna=Arya) did choose to act upon ideals that would have been revolutionary for that time.

Joan of Arc anyone?

[Fender]

well it was a confusing time. it is today. ned was willing to be open to it. love that Father. he loved and respected his children and all their differences. god bless him.

Don't worry, there is plenty of beer in Pastafarian heaven.

Joan of Arc anyone?

Oh FSM no, not her. If anything that we know about her is true, then that poor woman was hearing voices and was probably legitimately insane. I hope that no one in GRRM's universe becomes even slightly like her, I don't want anyone having more fuel to add to the plausibility of the Theon Durden theory because someone else's become just as insane.

[Alia of the knife]

Yet he hired Syrio for her. Talk about sending mixed signals.

Or, maybe he knew something of Lyannas fate that made him want to make sure that Arya had all her bases covered, and that if needed, she could protect herself fully and "professionally," and not halfway as Lyannas skill may have been only half-measure.

The new App. that Martin signed off on that debunks many theories, and confirms others, stated that Rhaegar did indeed enlist the aide of Dayne and Whent in taking Lyanna.

Dany remembers being told Rhaegars "Northern girl" was taken at swordpoint.

However, that is another thread.

[Alia of the knife]

Don't worry, there is plenty of beer in Pastafarian heaven.

Oh FSM no, not her. If anything that we know about her is true, then that poor woman was hearing voices and was probably legitimately insane. I hope that no one in GRRM's universe becomes even slightly like her, I don't want anyone having more fuel to add to the plausibility of the Theon Durden theory because someone else's become just as insane.

Whatever motivated Joan of Arc, she did break out of the conventional and traditional role.

Perhaps it's insane to think alot of things we believe currently are true.

[Alia of the knife]

Or, maybe he knew something of Lyannas fate that made him want to make sure that Arya had all her bases covered, and that if needed, she could protect herself fully and "professionally," and not halfway as Lyannas skill may have been only half-measure.

The new App. that Martin signed off on that debunks many theories, and confirms others, stated that Rhaegar did indeed enlist the aide of Dayne and Whent in taking Lyanna.

Dany remembers being told Rhaegars "Northern girl" was taken at swordpoint.

However, that is another thread.

Also, Ned was serious about resources, and he wouldn't have wasted that kind of money on an expensive Braavosi swordsman unless he was serious about the "dancing lessons," and didn't want to perhaps make the same mistake Rickard made in not allowing Lyanna to carry a sword -and carry it well.

[ARYa_Nym]

Also, Ned was serious about resources, and he wouldn't have wasted that kind of money on an expensive Braavosi swordsman unless he was serious about the "dancing lessons," and didn't want to perhaps make the same mistake Rickard made in not allowing Lyanna to carry a sword -and carry it well.

In the Spanish interview it said that he got Syrio because he felt that would be more appropriate for her than her training as a knight.

How did Ned Stark run into Syrio Forel?

Well, I’ve never given it much thought. Ned was searching for a fencing master who could teach Arya, and he knew it couldn’t not be a conventional master at arms or a knight, or the castle master at arms, because he didn’t think his young daughter could handle a broadsword (or maybe longsword) the way man with greater strength in their torso could, so he decided the Braavosi style suited her best. Who was available in the city that might fit the bill? Obviously, somebody had to recommend him to Ned. I believe Syrio must have been in the city at the time, because there wasn’t enough time to send for someone all the way from Braavos.

http://www.asshai.com/martin/entrevistas/entrevista_aviles.php

On the Joan of Arc subject she was compared to Nymeria.

In particular, given that Nymeria was a warrior-queen, is there a certain amazon tradition?

The Rhoynar did impact Dorne in a number of ways, some of which will be revealed in later books. Women definitely have more rights in Dorne, but I would not call it an "Amazon" tradition, necessarily. Nymeria had more in common with someone like Daenerys or Joan d'Arc than with Brienne or Xena the Warrior Princess.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Answers_to_Old_Questions/

It was said that the link could be that Dany, Nymeria, and Joan all are Moses like in gathering people to their cause.

[Fender]

Whatever motivated Joan of Arc, she did break out of the conventional and traditional role.

Perhaps it's insane to think alot of things we believe currently are true.

I think that the "conventional role" that Joan of Arc broke from was not so much being a woman as being born a peasant and still leading armies. There was a whole system of nobility and monarchy at that time in France, so social statuses were extremely important. While people had already often seen women rulers or queens, who had ever heard of a peasant commanding a royal army? Even people of skill had a lot of difficulty to get any recognition if they weren't born with the proper blood.