Is this impression of Serena Williams a form of blackface?

[mormont]

There is your statement. Mocking someone for a racial characteristic is racist.

Correct. However, the 'Blame Pod threads do not do this. Never have. They are not about mocking Pod's Irishness, his intelligence, his 'ability' (whatever that means), or any other identifiable Irish stereotype. They're about the notion that Pod is secretly controlling everything.

They are not comparable to this situation, and that remains the case no matter how often the comparison is made.

[Castel]

Who is Pod?

[Ken Stone]

They are not about mocking Pod's Irishness, his intelligence, his 'ability' (whatever that means)

Dude. Just because Pod is Irish doesn't mean he doesn't have any ability. He is perfectly capable and competent and I think you owe him an apology.

[mormont]

Pod has several abilities! Devil-bunnies usually do. :)

[Ken Stone]

Pod has several abilities! Devil-bunnies usually do. :)

Several abilities? Slow down there. No need to take this too far. :P

[Greywolf2375]

Correct. However, the 'Blame Pod threads do not do this. Never have. They are not about mocking Pod's Irishness, his intelligence, his 'ability' (whatever that means), or any other identifiable Irish stereotype. They're about the notion that Pod is secretly controlling everything.

They are not comparable to this situation, and that remains the case no matter how often the comparison is made.

And Wozniack isn't mocking her "blackness". She is mocking Serena, the person.

You can answer that way because you know why it is being done, however from the outside we are mocking an Irishman for things going wrong. If it were just about Pod controlling things, then we would also be thanking Pod when things go right, but we're not. It is ONLY about things going wrong - which reinforces the "dumb mick" stereotype.

[Yagathai]

And Wozniack isn't mocking her "blackness". She is mocking Serena, the person.

You can answer that way because you know why it is being done, however from the outside we are mocking an Irishman for things going wrong. If it were just about Pod controlling things, then we would also be thanking Pod when things go right, but we're not. It is ONLY about things going wrong - which reinforces the "dumb mick" stereotype.

Man, there's reaching, and then there's Elongated Man / Mister Fantastic stretchy super power reaching. This is the latter.

[MisterOJ]

Man, there's reaching, and then there's Elongated Man / Mister Fantastic stretchy super power reaching. This is the latter.

Plastic Man is cooler than both those rubes though.

[Elder Sister]

If you cut open Stretch Armstrong, you will only get some corn syrupy crap and you cannot put him back together again.

[MisterOJ]

You don't even have to cut it open. Just stretch it really, really, really far. I found this out on Christmas Day. It was no fun at all.

[Greywolf2375]

Man, there's reaching, and then there's Elongated Man / Mister Fantastic stretchy super power reaching. This is the latter.

Where?

Serena is black. Wozniack mocked her by showing curves. This reinforced the underlying stereotype.

Pod is Irish. He is mocked for all the things that go wrong. This reinfored the underlying stereotype.

Do you disagree that there is a "dumb mick" stereotype? Do you disagree that we Blame Pod for things that go wrong? If not, then even though we do it with best intent and fun (like Wozniack) we unintentionally reinforce the stereotype.

OR, people are looking way to deeply into one person imitating another and trying to tilt at windmills - which quite frankly is what this is.

[Relic]

No one is MOCKING Pod. If anything Pod is mocking us. You people clearly don't understand what Blaming Pod means. And i Blame Pod for that.

[Thlayli]

...Pod is secretly controlling everything.

I had no idea.

Happy Channukah, Pod!

[Horselover Fat]

I had no idea.

Happy Channukah, Pod!

Damned stereotype reinforcer

[Sci-2]

I'm curious, is it really so bad to for people to be made aware of the stereotype as the reason this shouldn't be done?

I find the idea that Caroline should have been aware of the stereotype to be reaching. From what I've read, she and Serena are actually friends and this wasn't malicious. But at worst it was in bad taste.

But I also find the idea that this is 100% okay to be silly. As is the idea that it doesn't carry any racist connotation. Now, the idea that Caroline should be condemned as the equivalent of a KKK member is ridiculous, but I don't think anyone is arguing that. I think the idea here is that she should be made aware that she inadvertently stirred some shit up and shouldn't stir shit up again. That's it, and so there is no threat to free speech.

It all seems really simple to me.

[Horselover Fat]

You're too goddamned reasonable for this place Sci, cut it out.

[Reposado]

i really don't think anyone can be unintentionally racist.

the word racist, and racism, implies intent and belief

one can be racially insensitive, even to an inappropriate level, without realizing it but one can't be racist without meaning to

is this semantics? sure but in a significant manner.

[Yagathai]

Yeah, you're actually wrong though. Whether or not someone does something offensive intentionally out of malice or unintentionally out of ignorance doesn't make what they do any less offensive. Whether or not someone pickets a funeral with a "all fags will burn in hell" sign because they want to hurt someone's feelings or they truly believe that in fact all fags will burn in actual hell doesn't make what they're doing any less bigoted.

[Sci-2]

You're too goddamned reasonable for this place Sci, cut it out.

Oh stick around, I'm barrels of stubborn insanity. Thanks though!

i really don't think anyone can be unintentionally racist.

the word racist, and racism, implies intent and belief

one can be racially insensitive, even to an inappropriate level, without realizing it but one can't be racist without meaning to

is this semantics? sure but in a significant manner.

Maybe that's the issue here. I don't think Caroline is a racist. I thought she was mean-spirited at first, but it looks like she and Serena are friends. So I no longer think she should be fined or penalized.

I do think she inadvertently called up some specters spectres of the past. I think she should be made aware of that.

Whether or not someone pickets a funeral with a "all fags will burn in hell" sign because they want to hurt someone's feelings or they truly believe that in fact all fags will burn in actual hell doesn't make what they're doing any less bigoted.

But that's still a direct statement about gays. Caroline, AFAIK, didn't intentionally mean to call back to the stereotype.

[Fragile Bird]

i really don't think anyone can be unintentionally racist.

the word racist, and racism, implies intent and belief

one can be racially insensitive, even to an inappropriate level, without realizing it but one can't be racist without meaning to

is this semantics? sure but in a significant manner.

:agree: And very emotionally charged semantics, too. People get very upset when being accused of being racists when they did or said something they did not know had racist baggage attached to it. As TP said, he used the word "gypped" without knowing it referrred to gypsies, whereas the word commonly used before was "Jewed", where the racist intent would be obvious. Although even there, people might say they had been raised to believe Jews were sharp business people and they didn't mean to insult Jews (yeah, I know, but people would actually say that in their defence. Another era.)

Yeah, you're actually wrong though. Whether or not someone does something offensive intentionally out of malice or unintentionally out of ignorance doesn't make what they do any less offensive. Whether or not someone pickets a funeral with a "all fags will burn in hell" sign because they want to hurt someone's feelings or they truly believe that in fact all fags will burn in actual hell doesn't make what they're doing any less bigoted.

I think you're wrong - the words or acts could easily be offensive, yes, but not necessarily racist, because of the lack of intent. ie like people who use the word "gypped".