JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 We're just so unloved :crying: :bawl: :crying: Why doesn't everyone love us gingers? :( Because we're both fun as the blondes and serious as the brunettes. At the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Because we're both fun as the blondes and serious as the brunettes. At the same time. They're all just jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Robb Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I really like Edmure. Much better than the Blackfish IMO. But I agree he do not seem to be the brightest. He has a bigger heart than brain I would say. He brings in his smallfolk at Riverrun to protect them for example and surrendered Riverrun to save his son. And he is not entirely stupid. His plan to defend the fords was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkan12 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 How exactly is Edmure stupid for doing this? How can Robb want all the Riverlords and their hosts to remain at Riverrun while simultaneously expecting Edmure not to react when Tywin and his army come onto his land. Right. Stupid is the wrong word. More like traitor, or trickster. He tricked Robb into riverrun army. First he insisted on send river lords, then he just called them back for ''a lesson to Tywin'' ... We all know the real reason though, because Edmure wanted a battle glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 You seem to be contradicting yourself with these two statements - somehow Edmure doesn't give a shit about the world around or things that don't directly involve him and yet at the same time remembers the percise details and timings of Robb's campaign and is meant to call Robb out. Also as to why he doesn't call Robb out - he's being given a surround sound bollocking and gets cut off when he attempts speak back (and you're saying you've never only remembered later on a piece of information you could have used in the argument) and the argument quickly moves past the plan and onto the North, barely giving Edmure a chance to argue about it I had a feeling that somebody might call me out on the contradiction in my argument. The difference is that Robb's victory directly affected Edmure , Robb is his King , the Blackfish his Uncle so he would be paying more attention to what Robb was doing then Stannis. Plus he did not need to know the details of how the Crag was taken but at least he could remember what day it was . It happened a very short time before his conversation with Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Right. Stupid is the wrong word. More like traitor, or trickster. He tricked Robb into riverrun army. First he insisted on send river lords, then he just called them back for ''a lesson to Tywin'' ... We all know the real reason though, because Edmure wanted a battle glory.How is this tricky? He sent them to reclaim land and they did, Robb could have easily called them back. Robb never said he could not summon them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I had a feeling that somebody might call me out on the contradiction in my argument.The difference is that Robb's victory directly affected Edmure , Robb is his King , the Blackfish his Uncle so he would be paying more attention to what Robb was doing then Stannis. Plus he did not need to know the details of how the Crag was taken but at least he could remember what day it was . It happened a very short time before his conversation with Robb.As do the Tyrells joining the lannisters, this is huge news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daereon Lothston Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I also think that Edmure is a good man and in no way a traitor. He is one of the few "highborns" who cares about the peasantry and he saved Robb's life sticking to his vague orders and preventing Tywin from annihilate him in the Westernlands. Also later he had to cope with Robb's blackmailing in order to amend the error he made because of his horniness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 As do the Tyrells joining the lannisters, this is huge news. sure it is but the details on how the Tyrells were able to send a rider to catch up to Tywin was not something that Edmure paid attention to , he was too busy admiring his own work at the Battle of the Fords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhymeswithleek Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 sure it is but the details on how the Tyrells were able to send a rider to catch up to Tywin was not something that Edmure paid attention to , he was too busy admiring his own work at the Battle of the Fords. T True enough, I'm not sure I'd call him stupid though. Naive, a bit arrogant and reckless but not a complete idiot, he was eager to prove himself and fell flat. By the end of Feast For Crows though, he'd earned my respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 T True enough, I'm not sure I'd call him stupid though. Naive, a bit arrogant and reckless but not a complete idiot, he was eager to prove himself and fell flat. By the end of Feast For Crows though, he'd earned my respect. I've never called him stupid and I am actually a fan of Edmure and I feel like he has been through hell and in the next book I hope we will see Edmure and Blackfish join together and retake the Riverlands from the Freys and Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 sure it is but the details on how the Tyrells were able to send a rider to catch up to Tywin was not something that Edmure paid attention to , he was too busy admiring his own work at the Battle of the Fords.When Edmure returned home, he looked like some died because had just learned Tyrells joined the lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 sure it is but the details on how the Tyrells were able to send a rider to catch up to Tywin was not something that Edmure paid attention to , he was too busy admiring his own work at the Battle of the Fords. Why would that be included in a Maesters message? Why would Tywin tell a Maester that or why would the Tyrells ever admit that they were too chicken shit to move their 60k to Kings Landing without Tywin being there to hold their hands You are coming up with elaborate fan fiction to fit an event that the book directly contradicts. Robb was marching on the Crag before Tywin got to the Fords, that happened, it is in the books, you saying it happened a month later is FAN FICTION, it took Robb a night to take the Crag, we know this as Robb tells us. We have a timeline of the books that is pretty clear that the battles of the Crag and the Fords were concurrent. Robb is allowed to be wrong, he may even sincerely think he is in the right, but that does not stop his argument being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Why would that be included in a Maesters message? Why would Tywin tell a Maester that or why would the Tyrells ever admit that they were too chicken shit to move their 60k to Kings Landing without Tywin being there to hold their hands You are coming up with elaborate fan fiction to fit an event that the book directly contradicts. Robb was marching on the Crag before Tywin got to the Fords, that happened, it is in the books, you saying it happened a month later is FAN FICTION, it took Robb a night to take the Crag, we know this as Robb tells us. We have a timeline of the books that is pretty clear that the battles of the Crag and the Fords were concurrent. Robb is allowed to be wrong, he may even sincerely think he is in the right, but that does not stop his argument being wrong. How do you know how long it took Robb to get his army to the Crag? We know that Robb was marching for the Crag and we know he took it in one night. But we have no idea how long it took him to get his army to the Crag and get them ready to take it. Am I wrong? Show me the passage in the book that tells us how long it took him to get to the Crag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Robb is allowed to be wrong, he may even sincerely think he is in the right, but that does not stop his argument being wrong. You not saying that he's wrong instead what you are saying is that he and the Blackfish are lying scumbags. You are saying that they had no plan to deal with Tywin and that Robb was injured at the Crag and then lied his and the Blackfish's ass off about it. That I cannot believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Why would that be included in a Maesters message? Why would Tywin tell a Maester that or why would the Tyrells ever admit that they were too chicken shit to move their 60k to Kings Landing without Tywin being there to hold their hands Why would the Lannisters and Tyrells care about if people found out how they got together? I do not see how that makes either one look bad. Part of a Maester's job is to be a historian and the Battle of the Blackwater is one of the major events in the history of the Seven Kingdoms so I can see Maesters digging into all aspects of the battle. Finding out how the Lannisters and Tyrells got together would not be to hard to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haus of Targaryen Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Aww poor Edmure... Just get him out of Casterly Rock and back into Riverrun w/ his floppy fish! And i know his wife was 'innocent' and all but i dont want any Freys having ties to Riverrun whatsoever. She may be a sweet young thing now but in ten yrs who knows what treason her and her son will hatch (thats after all the Freys are slaughtered and Twins brought to ruin) #GrandMaesterPycelleVoice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 You not saying that he's wrong instead what you are saying is that he and the Blackfish are lying scumbags. You are saying that they had no plan to deal with Tywin and that Robb was injured at the Crag and then lied his and the Blackfish's ass off about it. That I cannot believe. I have never called Robb a scumbag, the only person I have seen say that is you. You are perhaps a little to attached to a fictional character. He is allowed to be wrong and make mistakes. Lying for what he believes is the greater good does not make him a scumbag. We know that Ned lied to Cat for their entire marriage about Jon, that does not make him a scumbag. How do you know how long it took Robb to get his army to the Crag? We know that Robb was marching for the Crag and we know he took it in one night. But we have no idea how long it took him to get his army to the Crag and get them ready to take it. Am I wrong? Show me the passage in the book that tells us how long it took him to get to the Crag. You have been shown multiple times. While Edmure is still at the Fords, a short distance from Riverrun, everyone is making the double celebration of Edmure and Robbs victories. The Crag is much further away so that victory happened first as news takes longer to get. From the evidence in the books they happened at the same time, if you have actual evidence that they did not then show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Why would the Lannisters and Tyrells care about if people found out how they got together? I do not see how that makes either one look bad. Part of a Maester's job is to be a historian and the Battle of the Blackwater is one of the major events in the history of the Seven Kingdoms so I can see Maesters digging into all aspects of the battle. Finding out how the Lannisters and Tyrells got together would not be to hard to find out. It makes the Tyrells look like cowards who can't act on their own accord. They would not be bragging that they were just stalling and were not going to act without Tywin. Mace is described a blowfish for a reason, because he likes to brag. And while a Maester may record that, IF given the information, they are hardly likely to be sending that type of info instantly by Raven. There are more pressing matters involved than that, such as who won the war, list of important dates, what it means for the victors. The union of Joffrey to Maegary and what that means to Sansa and the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 It makes the Tyrells look like cowards who can't act on their own accord. They would not be bragging that they were just stalling and were not going to act without Tywin. Mace is described a blowfish for a reason, because he likes to brag. And while a Maester may record that, IF given the information, they are hardly likely to be sending that type of info instantly by Raven. There are more pressing matters involved than that, such as who won the war, list of important dates, what it means for the victors. The union of Joffrey to Maegary and what that means to Sansa and the North. I don't think it makes the Tyrells look like cowards instead it makes them look smart. How do you know what kind of information Maesters send or don't send with their ravens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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