Do you think we'll ever see Jaime and Brienne in an actual fully fledged relationship?

[tsunad]

Probably not, but if they did, their children would be like gods in melee.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

Agree :) Assuming they both survive Lady Stoneheart (which I believe they will), I think they both have a long way to go before they can have a fully fledged romantic relationship. At present, each of them is confused or in denial about his/her feelings, and they each have very high emotional barriers to get around. Both are also emotionally insecure about relationships because of past experiences - Brienne has so many self-doubts and doesn't think any man 'could' want her or fall in love with her, and Jaime because he has been shattered by Cersei's 'betrayal', as well as her rejection of his physically maimed state. He is also newly committed to his role as LC of the Kingsguard, and while being in the KG didn't stop him having an affair with Cersei, I think it would now certainly cause him to have second thoughts about a romantic relationship with any other woman.

[snip]

Could not agree more.

Their confusion at the feelings they have for each other really amuses me at times. They each have emotional barriers, as you and I both stated in our original posts. Something major would have to happen for these issues to even begin to resolve themselves, and it would take time. Perhaps they could be together in the future but I don't see them ending up together by the end of ADOS.I did find it interesting that Brienne liked the thought of being a mother and wife. I don't think it was the "settling down" that bothered her -- I think her self-consciousness and her perception of the men who were courting her ruined the process for her and she lost her faith in men and romantic love. Now that Jaime is maimed and was made fun of by Cersei, I think he will come to empathize with her even further when they meet again.

in reference to the KG thing -- if Tommen and the Lannister line lose the throne, he probably wouldn't be in the KG to whomever took the IT, making his vows null, right? Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong, of course. Point being, if he is no longer serving in the KG, he can take a wife and have children. :love:

[Le Cygne]

I don't think either of them is ready for a sexual/romantic relationship at this stage: they need to build a more solid foundation for that to happen.

I think you can lay all the foundations in the world, and it still ends. Or skip that, and get right to the good stuff, and it lasts forever.

Also, this is fiction, every interaction has heightened significance to fit the timeframe of the story. I don't want to read about them in an appendix.

There are only two books left, and lots of plot to get through, he's been building a couple of romances up for some time, I don't think he'll leave it for that.

[Currawong]

There are only two books left, and lots of plot to get through, he's been building a couple of romances up for some time, I don't think he'll leave it for that.

Two books is plenty! After all, they only met at the end of ACOK when Catelyn called Brienne into the cell with her sword. They were actually together only during a part of ASOS (Jaime sent her away on the quest before the end of that book), and their 'relationship' during AFFC was entirely a matter of their own separate POV thoughts and reactions. They only meet up again at the end of Jaime's one intriguing chapter in ADWD. So I'd say there was plenty of 'GRRM time' left for whatever he is going to do with their relationship! :D

[Le Cygne]

Heck, even Jane and Rochester kissed before it all went to hell. This is a very sexy series of books. I don't care about happily ever after, I am fine with happy now. :)

[Elba the Intoner]

That would be so so sweet if Jaime got that, he seemed rather hung up about Cersei not letting him hold Joffrey. But somehow I can't see Brienne as the mothering type?

I can see her now, hacking through her enemies, with a baby in tow! Would be epic, but I can't see Brienne being into the whole kids thing. Jaime on the other hand...

I totally disagree about Brienne not being the mothering type. She developed a very touching relationship with Pod that was like mother-son, or big sister-little brother anyway. Pod got attached to her too. How cute was it when he wanted to stay with her at the Quiet Isle?! Brienne would make a great mother. She just has given up on the idea because of how she has been treated by men in the past and she thinks she'll never meet a man who would want her, except, she has met that man . . . (and I'm not talking about Ser Hyle). :love:

[Lady of Dragonstone]

D'awww....You guys are so optimistic. :wub: I can feel the love in this thread.

I'll agree that two books could work. There was originally supposed to be a five year gap. Maybe we will see Brienne lose her status as the "Maid" of Tarth after all. ;)

[Le Cygne]

I think Ser Hyle really likes her, too. Your lips were made for kissing. All lips are made for kissing. No, you do not get a do over.

That's why I like Daario. At least he comes right out and says it.

But I'm with you, Jaime is the one. Never hurts to have a fallback, though.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I don't think we'll see them in a conventional relationship, no. They might acknowledge feelings, but one of them, probably Jaime, is likely going to die before they can ever have a legit relationship.

[Lion of Judah]

One is missing a hand the other half a face, I say it's destined for them to be together.

[Lord Godric]

I don't think we'll see them in a conventional relationship, no. They might acknowledge feelings, but one of them, probably Jaime, is likely going to die before they can ever have a legit relationship.

Yeah, I agree. I don't see both of them surviving until the end of the series and, let's face it, they would take until the end of the series to get to the point in which they can be in a romantic relationship. But I don't exactly see them even getting together if they were both to survive. Both of these characters are damaged, and Martin is not the type of writer who ends things sweetly for the sake of it. He deals with things realistically and the realistic ending would be for them to part ways and never act on any feelings they have because they both are beyond damaged.

[Le Cygne]

He deals with things realistically and the realistic ending would be for them to part ways and never act on any feelings they have because they both are beyond damaged.

Realistically, damaged people connect all the time, and throughout ASOIAF, especially. I actually think if they didn't even kiss, with all the foreshadowing, it would be odd.

[Lord Godric]

Realistically, damaged people connect all the time, and throughout ASOIAF, especially. I actually think if they didn't even kiss, with all the foreshadowing, it would be odd.

That feels too "Harry Potter" for me. I wouldn't expect that from Martin. Damaged people do connect in real life, but I consider Jaime and Brienne to be much more damaged creatures than we see in real life. I don't think it be realistic for Jaime and Brienne to be in a romantic relationship and be happy. Jaime's never been in a relationship besides with Cersei and since losing his hand has deeper problems, and I can't see Brienne opening up to anyone to the point where she'd be willing to be in a real relationship, regardless of how they connect.

[Currawong]

Realistically, damaged people connect all the time, and throughout ASOIAF, especially. I actually think if they didn't even kiss, with all the foreshadowing, it would be odd.

:agree: I hope we do get to see it! As you say, GRRM has put in a lot of foreshadowing and build-up with J/B.

I certainly don't think either of them is 'beyond damaged' in terms of a relationship. Yes, they have both been hurt, but all damage takes some time to heal - it's not like you can just flick a light switch and turn things on or off, or wave a magic wand and presto! it's All Better Now. That would be completely unrealistic and fairytale (and apart from the use of a love potion, it didn't even occur in Harry Potter.) Brienne has issues of self-esteem in terms of her own femininity, and is still not quite over Renly, but that doesn't mean she is too damaged to ever have a relationship. Especially as Jaime has already impliedly shown her the respect she wants/needs for herself as she is, by giving her Oathkeeper and entrusting her with the quest for Sansa. His words may scorn her as 'wench', but his deeds say otherwise and show his acceptance of her, which Brienne is coming to understand. And no, Jaime has never loved any woman other than Cersei, but at least he can love, even if his choice was the wrong woman in so many ways. Of course he's been emotionally shattered by her betrayal and her disgust at the loss of his hand, and he's rethinking a lot of things in his life right now, including Cersei and his own sense of identity. Again, that doesn't mean he is too damaged for any future relationship, just that he will probably have a better perspective on what he wants and needs from one. He's not 'over' Cersei yet, but he's at least prepared the divorce papers (only she doesn't know that!)

But two books is more than enough time for the Jaime / Brienne healing/ development process and for us to see where GRRM is taking J/B in terms of the overall story and the two of them personally.

[Lyanna Stark]

While on some level I find the idea of it nice. and there needs to be an heir of CR I doubt it.

GRRM isn't writing the Hero gets the girl type novels. How many times have you thought things like this, and then GRRM puts the slap down whammy on it.

Top 5 (no order)

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I'm offended by this. I totally want Brienne to save Jaime as his Hero!

That feels too "Harry Potter" for me. I wouldn't expect that from Martin.

What "damaged" people connect in Harry Potter? Ron and Hermoine? Yeah, they are certainly damaged goods, both of them. Or Harry and Ginny? Ginny the wholesome family girl who reminds Harry of what his mother would have been? Hardly. Unless you are a Snape/Draco shipper, perhaps.

[Grip]

I doubt it actually, I am not even sure that they will survive the series..Though they would certainly be an interesting couple, imagine the look on Cersei's face!

[Le Cygne]

Jaime's never been in a relationship besides with Cersei and since losing his hand has deeper problems, and I can't see Brienne opening up to anyone to the point where she'd be willing to be in a real relationship, regardless of how they connect.

I don't think anyone is talking about happily ever after.

I'll just tackle Brienne, because she's so ready for Jaime it's not funny, but I would just add, Jaime's not exactly shying away from Brienne, he of the now leave us when his clothes lay in a pile on the floor this tub suits me well enough come curse me or kiss me or call me a liar naked and almost a beauty dreams, etc.

Here's a few, you tell me if she's shying away from the thought of being with him. Helen Fisher (renowned anthropologist) identified three stages of love: lust, infatuation, and attachment. What I'm talking here is the infatuation stage. Are you telling me she would not be receptive to a kiss from this guy?

1) Jaime would not do that. He was sincere. He gave me the sword, and called it Oathkeeper.

2) She meant to keep the heavy oaken shield Jaime had given her, the one he'd borne himself from Harrenhal to King's Landing.

3) The bathhouse had been thick with the steam rising off the water, and Jaime had come walking through that mist naked as his name day, looking half a corpse and half a god. He climbed into the tub with me, she remembered, blushing.

4) Would that Jaime had come with me, she thought... but he was a knight of the Kingsguard, his rightful place was with his king.

5) Zollo and Rorge and Shagwell would have raped her half a hundred times if Ser Jaime had not told them she was worth her weight in sapphires.

6) Jaime sang "Six Maids in a Pool," and laughed when I begged him to be quiet.

7) That night she dreamed herself in Renly's tent again... And when the shadow sword sliced through the green steel gorget and the blood began to flow, she saw that the dying king was not Renly after all but Jaime Lannister, and she had failed him.

8) Ghosts. "A wall I rode by once. It does not matter." It was when Ser Jaime still had both his hands.

9) She went to sleep dreaming of the fight they'd had, and of Ser Jaime fastening a rainbow cloak about her shoulders.

10) He clawed at his belt and came up with a dagger, so Brienne cut his hand off. That one was for Jaime.

11) "You have two hands." One more than you left Jaime.

12) All of it came pouring out of Brienne then, like black blood from a wound... the voyage down the Trident, dueling Jaime in the woods, the Bloody Mummers, Jaime crying "Sapphires," Jaime in the tub at Harrenhal with steam rising from his body, the taste of Vargo Hoat's blood when she bit down on his ear, the bear pit, Jaime leaping down onto the sand, the long ride to King's Landing, Sansa Stark, the vow she'd sworn to Jaime, the vow she'd sworn to Lady Catelyn, Oathkeeper, Duskendale, Maidenpool, Nimble Dick and Crackclaw and the Whispers, the men she'd killed... "I have to find her," she finished. "There are others looking, all wanting to capture her and sell her to the queen. I have to find her first. I promised Jaime. Oathkeeper, he named the sword. I have to try to save her... or die in the attempt."

13) I could slink back to King's Landing, confess my failure to Ser Jaime, give him back his sword, and find a ship to carry me home to Tarth, as the Elder Brother urged. The thought was a bitter one, yet there was part of her that yearned for Evenfall and her father, and another part that wondered if Jaime would comfort her should she weep upon his shoulder. That was what men wanted, wasn't it? Soft helpless women that they needed to protect?

14) "Sapphires," she whispered at him, as she gave her blade a hard twist that made him shudder.

15) "Jaime," she heard herself scream, "Jaime."

16) She could not fight without her magic sword. Ser Jaime had given it to her. The thought of failing him as she had failed Lord Renly made her want to weep. "My sword. Please, I have to find my sword... Jaime called it Oathkeeper. Please."

17) Oathkeeper. I have to find the girl. I have to find his honor.

18) Jaime! she wanted to cry. Jaime, come back for me!

19) "The Kingslayer's whore." She flinched. "Why would you call me that?"

"If I had a silver stag for every time you said his name, I'd be as rich as your friends the Lannisters."

20) Jaime. The name was a knife, twisting in her belly. "Lady Catelyn, I... you do not understand, Jaime... he saved me from being raped when the Bloody Mummers took us, and later he came back for me, he leapt into the bear pit empty-handed... I swear to you, he is not the man he was."

[Tyrion_is_Omar]

Bipolar about this: My shipper heart really wants this, but considering that we are talking about GRRM I have to prepare for the worst case scenario.

[Rolex Baratheon]

As in, living together for more than a few years? Hell no. Sharing some moments before they die? Yeap.

[Castellan]

I suppose a happy ever after is just (remotely) possible, some sex whilst on a quest quite a lot more possible, and Brienne surviving and bearing a delightful warrior bastard is my personal 'most likely'.