Do you think we'll ever see Jaime and Brienne in an actual fully fledged relationship?

[The Mother of The Others]

They're already married. All that's left is for them to realize it. Seriously. The sense of renewed purpose they both believe in has already bonded them, and they believe in that purpose far more than all the superficial things that might keep them apart. And the rest of the world won't have them. So it's a done deal.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

They're already married. All that's left is for them to realize it. Seriously. The sense of renewed purpose they both believe in has already bonded them, and they believe in that purpose far more than all the superficial things that might keep them apart. And the rest of the world won't have them. So it's a done deal.

I don't think being married means what you think it means.

[The Mother of The Others]

They're wedded by how they're the only ones taking this knighthood thing seriously at the moment while everyone else plays at war, so when they look around no other options will seem as real and worthwhile to them as staying together and taking on the world with someone they can believe in.

[Newstar]

They're wedded by how they're the only ones taking this knighthood thing seriously at the moment while everyone else plays at war, so when they look around no other options will seem as real and worthwhile to them as staying together and taking on the world with someone they can believe in.

I'd have to agree with Apple Martini on this one. Taking things seriously is taking things seriously, married is married. Sharing an outlook and a common purpose is not the same as marriage. Otherwise, there would be some very interesting marriages in Westeros. Also, Pod takes this knighthood business very seriously too. Does that mean he's in a threeway marriage with Jaime and Brienne? (If so, hot.)

Topic: There's sexual tension out the wazoo, obviously, but I don't think it will go anywhere. Even if it does result in some acknowledgment of feelings, it will all end in tears. Stoneheart forces Brienne and Jaime to fight to the death tears. Cersei kills Brienne out of jealousy tears. Jaime sacrifices himself to take out Cersei tears. Brienne and Jaime go up against UnGregor with tragic results tears. Anything, really.

GRRM isn't writing the Hero gets the girl type novels.

Martin is not the type of writer who ends things sweetly for the sake of it.

Agreed. This ain't Harry Potter, where everyone who makes it through pairs off neatly, we get a cute little epilogue meeting all their adorable kids who look like their miniature clones.

Repeat after me, everyone, and keep repeating it whenever you have the urge to ship characters in this series: GRRM has no investment in his characters' lasting romantic happiness (or happiness in general, for that matter). Most loves will remain unrequited. All lost loves will remain lost. All mutual requited acknowledged loves in "series time" will be tragically cut short. These are the rules. You can go ahead and ship if you want, but if you bear this in mind, you'll spare yourself a lot of grief in the long run.

[The Mother of The Others]

So I shouldn't use the word marraige figuratively after midnight is what we've learned here. And agreeing with Apple is always a safe bet. An apple a day keeps Qyburn away. Though bolding her seemed a bit excessive. Well, if they can keep from losing any more body parts, I think the two of them can overlook the things the rest of the world mocks them for and appreciate the truly important core identity stuff they share in common. That's the message. And if they've got that, they've got the essence of a marraige if not the ceremony and the cake with living doves crammed into it. (Once Hot Pie learns to seal doves into cakes, forget about it. Bloodraven's ravens better watch out.) Goodnight now.

[Currawong]

Repeat after me, everyone, and keep repeating it whenever you have the urge to ship characters in this series: GRRM has no investment in his characters' lasting romantic happiness (or happiness in general, for that matter). Most loves will remain unrequited. All lost loves will remain lost. All mutual requited acknowledged loves in "series time" will be tragically cut short. These are the rules. You can go ahead and ship if you want, but if you bear this in mind, you'll spare yourself a lot of grief in the long run.

Well, on that basis none of the Starks will ever be reunited, Sansa will end up married to LF, Arya will never come back to Westeros, etc, etc. :D GRRM has said that the conflict that interests him is 'the human heart in conflict with itself' and that the ending to the novels will be "bittersweet". Meaning that there will be some sadness/ tears involved, that certain people will have been killed off, and just because a person is 'good' doesn't mean he/she will get 'justice' or will get the ending people would like. Equally, it is also likely to mean that some people will find happiness / love / fulfilment / whatever, and that people who are not necessarily 'good' may well prosper ... just as in Real Life.

All of which means it is just as likely that GRRM will take great delight in surprising readers with a happy ending for J/B as he is to kill one or both of them off, simply because GRRM likes to do the unexpected and bvecause sometimes, things DO work out happily. Seeing that so many people clearly expect an unhappy ending for J/B, I'd say that a bet at long odds on them both surviving and being happy together might be worthwhile! Now, where's Ladbroke's ....

[Newstar]

Well, on that basis none of the Starks will ever be reunited, Sansa will end up married to LF, Arya will never come back to Westeros, etc, etc. :D GRRM has said that the conflict that interests him is 'the human heart in conflict with itself' and that the ending to the novels will be "bittersweet". Meaning that there will be some sadness/ tears involved, that certain people will have been killed off, and just because a person is 'good' doesn't mean he/she will get 'justice' or will get the ending people would like. Equally, it is also likely to mean that some people will find happiness / love / fulfilment / whatever, and that people who are not necessarily 'good' may well prosper ... just as in Real Life.

GRRM gave an interview a while ago and he drew an interesting distinction between "happiness" and "happy endings" and "victory." I'd have to dig it up, but my impression from the interview was that he was less interested in "happiness" as a goal and more interested in characters striving and achieving victory after struggle. And the obvious question is "Well, how could victory not result in lasting happiness?" I think that the answer actually lies in one of GRRM's novels, Fevre Dream. The protagonist never finds lasting romantic happiness and despairs at one point that his life has been a waste, but he does achieve one great, meaningful victory, and dies not too long after.

So when I say that GRRM has no investment in characters' lasting romantic happiness (or happiness in general), I don't think that it means that the Starks will be denied a reunion, that Sansa will be married to Littlefinger, or that Arya will never come back to Westeros. I do think that it could mean, to use your examples, that the Starks will reunite but will lose another Stark shortly thereafter or will split up again, that Sansa will never remarry or will enter into a loveless political marriage for the good of her house (or she'll have a passionate love affair tragically cut short and never love again), that Arya will come back to Westeros but won't choose to remain in Winterfell despite her family being there because of all the bad memories. There will probably be "victory" for the Starks (the restoration of the house and their legacy) but no "happiness" (and happiness would be a pretty meaningless concept for the surviving Stark children anyway, given everything they've lost). This would be perfectly "bittersweet."

All of which means it is just as likely that GRRM will take great delight in surprising readers with a happy ending for J/B

As I said, I think GRRM has no investment whatsoever in his characters' lasting romantic happiness. The books (and his other novels that I've read, while I'm at it) bear this out, littered as they are with tragic love stories (Jon/Ygritte, Dany/Drogo, Rhaegar/Lyanna, etc. etc.) and unrequited love (everyone else, pretty much). Setting his characters up for long-term pairings with suitable partners just not a super important theme to him, from everything that I've seen. He's a writer, after all, not a matchmaker. If he chooses to surprise readers, it won't be with romantic bliss: it will be with an exceptionally tragic turn of events.

as he is to kill one or both of them off, simply because GRRM likes to do the unexpected

GRRM does like to do the unexpected, but never in a way in this series that favours the characters' long-term romantic (or other) happiness. Maybe it bores him, maybe he's working out personal issues, I dunno, but if he does do the unexpected with Jaime and Brienne, it will not be something that lends itself to a happy requited lasting romantic love.

Seeing that so many people clearly expect an unhappy ending for J/B, I'd say that a bet at long odds on them both surviving and being happy together might be worthwhile!

I just don't think GRRM's storytelling brain works that way. I mean, think about it: ASOIAF is a series with literally hundreds of characters, and I'm pretty sure you can count the happily married/good-as-married living couples on one hand. (This is also true for the elaborate Targ backstories GRRM wrote up: lots of lousy love lives and tragic love stories there.) I really think you should tailor your expectations accordingly.

[Clariana]

I would like to say "yes" and I agree that Brienne has fallen head over... But Jaime... Jaime might be 'in lust' rather than 'in love'... Guy still has issues.

OK so there's Harrenhal, but if you're both nekkid in a bath it's a bit difficult not to think about the other person, innit?

and then he goes back to recover her from the bear pit... Except that he leaves her there first and he's under no illusion when he does so what is going to happen to her, these are the bloody mummers for heaven's sake.

Then he gets to KL, icky, desperate sex in a Sept with Cersei occurs, in the presence of their dead son no less.

He has Brienne detained until Loras is convinced she's inno.

He gives her the quest, usual Brianne Jaime convo ensues, he's revved, she's slow on the uptake, he loses his rag and basically tells her to piss off. She does.

Then he sets out on his tour of the Riverlands. He's hypersensitive to all the emotional sexual things going around him. He lashes out at Connington who makes a few choice remarks about Brienne and basically dismisses him.

They pick up Pia who once tried to warm his bed, she's been thoroughly brutalised but still hankers after him, he gets turned on, then decides to set her up with one of his (virgin) squires and even arranges for them to tryst in his bed...

Meanwhile at the feast... Jaime dressed in red appraises physically all the females present and senses where their affections lie, who they're attracted to. He goes to meet Lancel in the Sept. He despises and pities Lancel for turning down all the sensual pleasures he could have access to, his wife, his castle, a comfy bed, food... He extracts from Lancel a confession that he's boinked Cesei but by that time despises the guy too much to do anything about it.

After the talk with Lancel he seeks out llyn Payne and graphically describes to the Lord Executioner how he had sex with Cersei in that same castle several years ago, they fight... Jaime's in for hiding but you get the impression he really, really wants to be punished.

Hmmm, Lancel has the sept and Jaime has ser Illyn...

TBC

[Lucy Stark]

Repeat after me, everyone, and keep repeating it whenever you have the urge to ship characters in this series: GRRM has no investment in his characters' lasting romantic happiness (or happiness in general, for that matter). Most loves will remain unrequited. All lost loves will remain lost. All mutual requited acknowledged loves in "series time" will be tragically cut short. These are the rules. You can go ahead and ship if you want, but if you bear this in mind, you'll spare yourself a lot of grief in the long run.

That's a rule to live by...

I love these two and how their relationship has developed and yes, I'd love to see more and more of that relationship... but I dare not hope.

As many have said before me, I think it's going to end in tragedy for them. And if they fully aknowledge their feelings to one another... then the tragic ending will be death IMO, probably in a sacrificing reedeming/enabling act. :(

[Bayard]

If there's one relation I wish to see is Jaime and Brienne. I doubt it will happen, one of them is going to die. If it's Jaime, Brienne will continue to be Brienne, and try to help Cat (because of her oath) or will go on searching for Sansa/Arya. If Brienne dies (as I believe), things will get a lot more interesting, because Jaime is a more complex character. I think there would be good chances that he will go back to "the dark side" and do a lot of ugly stuff.

[Danelle]

It would be so beautiful and right for the two of them to end together. Although Brienne is too good for Jaime, still I think that it would be perfect. Brienne is the exact opposite of Cersei, ugly, king, naive, sees everything in terms of black and white. Jaime is nothing like Renly. Both of them were handsome but Renly was the westerosi equivalent to a metrosexual in a way. Jaime would train and ride horses and actually fight. While Jaime was known for killing a defenceless old man, he was still one of the finest warriors in the Kingdoms. Renly was not known for his skill in swordfighting, just for his noce manners and good looks. Brienne followed Renly because he treated her like a princess. She followed Jaime because they shared lifechanging experiences, saved her twice from Vargo and offered her a chance to keep her word to Cat. But he did call her wench and compared her to Cersei. The two of them together would benefit both of them in so many ways, and exactly for that, I don't see it happen. GRRM has a tendency for writing about odd couples, Dany and Jorah, Sansa and Sandor, Jaime and Brienne...

[Brienne Of Bombay]

If events favour their relationship then I think there shouldn't be a problem. Jaime isn't the shallow narcissist that he was and Brienne also seems to have taken a liking to him. But I doubt whether it will really happen. Seems to good to be true in a GRRM novel. Them acknowledging their feelings for each other would also be worthwhile if it happens.

[SeanF]

I think that each of them has very strong romantic feelings for the other (even if not acknowledged); but, GRRM is not going to allow these characters to enjoy happiness together. Their may be a liaison, but certainly no long-lasting marriage.

[Le Cygne]

As I said, I think GRRM has no investment whatsoever in his characters' lasting romantic happiness. The books (and his other novels that I've read, while I'm at it) bear this out, littered as they are with tragic love stories (Jon/Ygritte, Dany/Drogo, Rhaegar/Lyanna, etc. etc.) and unrequited love (everyone else, pretty much). Setting his characters up for long-term pairings with suitable partners just not a super important theme to him, from everything that I've seen. He's a writer, after all, not a matchmaker. If he chooses to surprise readers, it won't be with romantic bliss: it will be with an exceptionally tragic turn of events.

Nobody thinks any character in this series is going to have lasting happiness of any kind, romantic or otherwise. But you left out, among others, Catelyn/Ned, Asha/Qarl, Robb/Jeyne, Dany/Daario, Sandor/Sansa (the author says he wrote this very popular pairing that way so let's not argue that here), Gilly/Sam, not to mention some unrequited love stories, like Tyrion/Shae, Dany/Jorah, Arys/Arianne, and more. The books are packed full of romance. The foreshadowing for Jaime/Brienne across four books has been romantic, so expecting some sort of resolution is reasonable.

OK so there's Harrenhal, but if you're both nekkid in a bath it's a bit difficult not to think about the other person, innit?

You left out the sexually charged creek fight (his sword moving into her and so on) and the repeated attempts to protect her from rape (Sapphires). But let's go with your examples.

He strips right in front of her. Then he gets into her tub, although as she herself pointed out, there were others. Then tells her his deep dark secrets, and not only that, wants her to believe he did the right thing (when she calls him Kingslayer, he thinks, "my name is Jaime"). He even says "kiss me" at one point. He gets a boner after repeatedly noticing she's naked (I counted 10 times, and no one made him get into her tub, and no one made him look). She "caught him before he could fall" (great line) and he thinks she's "gentler than Cersei". Then she washes him and dresses him, even trims his beard. And he asks for her arm. That's a lot of detail, the scene could have been set anywhere else if the man/woman stuff was not meant to be explored.

and then he goes back to recover her from the bear pit... Except that he leaves her there first and he's under no illusion when he does so what is going to happen to her, these are the bloody mummers for heaven's sake.

He thought she'd be returned to her father. He just had his hand chopped off, was malnourished and feverish, and got the hell out of there. But he did come back, and even she thought that was remarkable. And what he did in the bearpit is pretty remarkable, too, the rare act of a true knight in this series ("I only rescue maidens"). The only other one I am coming up with is Sandor rescuing Sansa. After dreaming of her naked and a beauty and a woman's shape and warm and yet another boner (once again, she is the only naked woman he sees, and it's his dream, why not imagine naked Cersei, why naked Brienne), he rushes back to Harrenhal, and his stomach does a lurch because he's afraid he's too late. He says he'll pay anything, then jumps one handed and unarmed into a bear pit. Kicks her away ("straddled her") so he's the one facing the bear. And says, "I dreamed of you" (another great line). All of this romantic detail that's completely unnecessary if it's for no reason.

He has Brienne detained until Loras is convinced she's inno.

Again, he defended her. He stood between them and threatened Loras repeatedly. And he played the game to free her ("you should be blowing me kisses", again with the kiss stuff). There's no way he would have let her stay in prison any more than Tyrion, had Loras not reached the logical conclusion.

He gives her the quest, usual Brianne Jaime convo ensues, he's revved, she's slow on the uptake, he loses his rag and basically tells her to piss off. She does.

He gave her a priceless Valyrian sword. His last gift from his father, something Tywin had been seeking a long time. He came up with the quest because she was beyond upset when Catelyn died, "the strength is gone from her". He gave her a purpose, and thought of everything she would need. Since when do we see Jaime acting so nice?

Then he sets out on his tour of the Riverlands. He's hypersensitive to all the emotional sexual things going around him. He lashes out at Connington who makes a few choice remarks about Brienne and basically dismisses him.

Dismisses him? First he wanders back to the bear pit, why, for kicks? Then he sees a light and thinks, "someone has come before me" that turns out to be the guy who was once betrothed to her, then smacks the shit out of him, just for saying something snarky that he himself had said before. That was a totally excessive reaction. Why?

They pick up Pia who once tried to warm his bed, she's been thoroughly brutalised but still hankers after him, he gets turned on, then decides to set her up with one of his (virgin) squires and even arranges for them to tryst in his bed...

Wait, so responding to naked Brienne was no big deal, but responding to naked Pia, who climbed into his bed, was? I saw his sexual response to other women as him moving away from Cersei. But the only one he chose to get closer to was Brienne, he got into the tub with her, and dreamed about her.

So why did the author put so much romantic detail into the novels if it was for no purpose? He could have written all of these scenes quite differently if there was no bearing on the story. That's my question for the naysayers. He's a really good writer, so why set the scenes this way. The story could be told without all of this.

And it's hardly odd that a lot of readers noticed the scenes were set this way, and expect some sort of romantic resolution. Again, nobody is saying happily ever after. I enjoyed the Jon/Ygritte story even though it ended tragically. But I also think tragedy can be overdone, to the point it's not realistic at all.

[Clariana]

Thanks, Le Cygne... I'm convinced.

[TheBlackBard]

I think that in the end this relationship is going to end in a kind of mirror to Renleys death.

It will be Jaime proclaiming his love for her as she dies in his arms, and then him vowing to revenge her.

Possible it will be Stoneheart that eventually has Brienne killed and then Jaime rooting her out?

I kind of hope so anyway, I never liker SH when she was Cat, now she's just a horrible half dead bitch.

[firepoet]

I don't think they'll end up together but I wouldn't be surprised if she dies and he fully realizes he loved her. Perhaps after her death he gives up and decides to head back to Casterly Rock where he finds Cersei. She makes a comment about the maid of Tarth (since she knows he's with her.) Jaime finally snaps at the remark, and strangles her fulfilling the prophecy.

[The Mother of The Others]

unrequited love stories, like Tyrion/Shae

:dunno:

Moving on.....

That was an excellent effort on your symbolically important 777th post, striking the "jackpot" indeed! And point taken, Newstar. I'm not hoping for an ending with a rosy glow, necessarily, and I know to be greatful for each page we get of the characters because it may be their last. But I think they've already got something special going on----special for them. It's already given them what they needed most, even if we'd consider it a weird and incomplete romance if they died tomorrow.

[Le Cygne]

Thank you. Just wanted to show there are a lot of romances in the books.

[Theda Baratheon]

I don't think they'll end up together but I wouldn't be surprised if she dies and he fully realizes he loved her. Perhaps after her death he gives up and decides to head back to Casterly Rock where he finds Cersei. She makes a comment about the maid of Tarth (since she knows he's with her.) Jaime finally snaps at the remark, and strangles her fulfilling the prophecy.

I really like this, haha.