How can S2 be improved?

[YouSnowNothing]

I agree that Ros' presence is overstated by book fans. After I watched the show, before I read the books, I didn't even know who Ros was. It took someone pointing it out for me to realise that she was the same prostitute in all those scenes. Like Mr Fixit says, the focus in those scenes is on the primary characters - Tyrion, Theon, Littlefinger, Joffrey... Ros exists to act as a catch-all for any scenes that require prostitutes. If Ros didn't exist as a character, all those scenes would still exist, they'd just involve nameless whores. And the fact is it's just a lot easier for HBO to hire one actress they know is capable to be involved in all these different scenes than having to go through casting a new actress every time.

[1234567]

Add in all the Sandor scenes that were apparently cut and extend the throne room scene to see Dontos trying to help and the Hound saying Enough. It would at least repair some of the lost storyline.

[Theda Baratheon]

Add in all the Sandor scenes that were apparently cut and extend the throne room scene to see Dontos trying to help and the Hound saying Enough. It would at least repair some of the lost storyline.

I definitely agree. :smug:

[Honourable Ser]

For one, let's stop jumping on the bandwagon, shall we? The whole Ros thing is like some bad internet meme. Someone started it, and now it's spread becoming some silly chest-thumping 'who's-the-bigger-Martin-fan' excuse. Does it really bear repeating that she always shares scenes with one of the principal characters? That those scenes exist primarily because of those characters and not her?

As for pacing the season, I agree that they shouldn't try to incorporate every character in almost every episode, doubly so for those that had limited screentime, like Dany and Jon. Better to have several episodes revolve around them with clear storylines than have them appearing all the time for a few minutes,

I'm really glad you said that about Ros! I thought her scene with Littlefinger after the killing of Robert's bastards was brilliant, and showed us just how dangerous and vindictive a man Baelish can be. Also, her final scene with Varys in Episode 10, very important in my eyes as it develops the Varys vs. Baelish storyline in a nice, subtle way.

Slightly off topic, but I'm just wondering if you think we could see Ros take on the role of Dontos the Red? I think I'd quite enjoy that as I always found Dontos to be a little...easy? Not sure that's the right word, but hopefully you take my meaning :).

[Mr Fixit]

Slightly off topic, but I'm just wondering if you think we could see Ros take on the role of Dontos the Red? I think I'd quite enjoy that as I always found Dontos to be a little...easy? Not sure that's the right word, but hopefully you take my meaning :).

If that's true, may the Lords of Kobol save us all from the Ros haters "me eyes are bleedin'" "this travesty of a show needs to die along with David and Dan" sort.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Ros' scenes did well to set up Littlefinger. For non readers I would assume his character would be a bit difficult to gauge, at least as far as his motivations and intentions go. You really see the cunning, cruel side to him that explains how he's risen so far. Plus the actress is quite good.

For the Robb/Talisa haters, I agree it seems a little silly right now, but I think it will eventually be set up to be much better in S3. In the books, you know basically nothing about Jeyne. That doesn't translate well to TV, because viewers would say, "Wait, who is this random chick the character I love (Robb) decided to marry? What the hell is going on?"

As far as what I would do to improve the show - add 2 episodes if it were possible. Right now they're behind on the story and will only dig themselves further. I expect they will have to cut a lot in Season 3 and focus primarily on the main arc(s) and very little on the drawn out events in the book like Brienne's wanderings post-Jaime, Arya's wanderings (Which is a shame since Maisie is brilliant), the whole Greyjoy plot as well.

[King in the North Carolina]

My only real complaints about season two were the pacing of the Jon and Dany storylines, respectively, and the oft-pointed-out tendency of Jon to come off as a dumbass on several occasions.

Ros is just fine, imo. She's mainly a device used to give an excuse for needed exposition(and sometimes to sex up those scenes, which is NOT a bad thing), but the actress has managed to make her sympathetic.

Yara is not at all how I pictured Asha, but I like the character well enough. Alfie's portrayal of Theon was probably the season's highlight for me. His scenes were imbued with a real air of tragedy.

I understand the controversy over Tywin/Arya, but I personally loved those scenes, and don't mind getting a slightly different Tywin than we saw in the books.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I think Dany's pacing is S2 was a little off in the show because it's just as terrible in the books. After GoT Dany's storyline is incredibly drawn out and head-scratching, but we at least know she's waiting for her dragons to grow in a CoK. After aCoK, it's as if she's saying to herself "Let's delay for a while so we can wait to see if perhaps a mystery Targeryan pops up, or perhaps the prince of Dorne will have the worst conceived plan ever go wrong so it can explain why he won't back me. Maybe if I even wait a bit longer some random dwarf I've never seen will show up and who knows what will happen then." I'm not really too excited for Dany's story in the TV series.

[Theda Baratheon]

Ultimately, I do love the series as a whole though, even though I'm agreeing with quite a few points here.

[Ser Creighton]

Nothing, it's over, there are a lot of things they could of done but nothing they can do. The good news is they are now spliting the books into two seasons and increasing the number of episodes. That should help a lot.

Right now I would just be ahppy if someone got Dany a new wig, her silver hair is platinum blonde and the hair looks dead, and dry. Nothing silver about it.

I agree with Asha she did not fit what I imagined Asha to be at all. Give some more time to Jon and the men of the Nights watch, it's been the Tyrion and Lannister show. To many other characters are being cut, to many scenes are being cut, and it's all about the Lannisters.

On a pro list I thought the actors playing Stannis and Davos nailed their respective parts. Sansa has become a personal favorite of mine, I thought she has been killing it and really improved this year.

But I am getting a little tired of so many of the characters getting the HBO treatment, yes I get it your progressive. But this year felt totally different from the books for me, the changes in season one mostly made sense to me, but this year it was just cut to death and what in gods name is Sam doing away from the Fist, right before the battle starts?

The show is okay to watch, but the books blow it out of the water.

[RSasoiaf]

For the Robb/Talisa haters, I agree it seems a little silly right now, but I think it will eventually be set up to be much better in S3. In the books, you know basically nothing about Jeyne. That doesn't translate well to TV, because viewers would say, "Wait, who is this random chick the character I love (Robb) decided to marry? What the hell is going on?"

I have seen many many people come with this argument and I can never get it.

1 - Who says we need to know more about the girl? Is this necessary for a movie? Since when? Did you people ever watch Braveheart? There you have a girl that barely speaks. I doubt you know a lot about her besides she is some random nice girl who had parents. And boy oh boy does she works well on that movie!!!!! So...to say that a love story needs lots of details about girl or guy is simply not true. Love is not about special traits. Love is love and everyone can understand love if it is done well.

2 - But, if for some reason we assume that we really need to know more about the girl, I am really curious to understand what do we really know about Talissa that can actually engage us with the character or understand Robb´s love. Because, I havent seen anyone saying they see something special on Talissa and they get it why Robb loves her. You see....in the end, no one gets it! And its ok because it was suposed to be like that.....but that was the whole point and brings us back to point 1.

What do we really need to know about her besides: HE LOVES HER! Period!!! Love does not allways make sense and we all should know well enough about that :) :) :)

[Victarious]

^ good points. The actress still annoys me though.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I have seen many many people come with this argument and I can never get it.

1 - Who says we need to know more about the girl? Is this necessary for a movie? Since when? Did you people ever watch Braveheart? There you have a girl that barely speaks. I doubt you know a lot about her besides she is some random nice girl who had parents. And boy oh boy does she works well on that movie!!!!! So...to say that a love story needs lots of details about girl or guy is simply not true. Love is not about special traits. Love is love and everyone can understand love if it is done well.

2 - But, if for some reason we assume that we really need to know more about the girl, I am really curious to understand what do we really know about Talissa that can actually engage us with the character or understand Robb´s love. Because, I havent seen anyone saying they see something special on Talissa and they get it why Robb loves her. You see....in the end, no one gets it! And its ok because it was suposed to be like that.....but that was the whole point and brings us back to point 1.

What do we really need to know about her besides: HE LOVES HER! Period!!! Love does not allways make sense and we all should know well enough about that :) :) :)

Book Robb doesn't marry for love, he marries for honor. TV Robb will marry for love. In order to establish the blatant Frey betrayal they needed the viewer to understand why he would do it, thereby empathizing more with him to set up the Red Wedding to be even more emotionally stirring. Sure, they could have kept the Westerling story as is, but it would be bad for TV in comparison. As far as you haven't seen anything that would make Robb love Talisa? Are you really arguing that? She's strong, smart, independent, high born, and beautiful.

Your Braveheart comparison is so off base I won't even address that.

[Lord Varys]

There are good and bad Ros scenes in the show. The problem here is more the pimp version of Littlefinger who actually cleans off the cum of his prostitutes instead of, well, counting coppers, and earning/stealing money. The man invests in brothels, he does not run them personally. That's the main problem with this whole thing.

The Ros/Littlefinger conversation following the cum scene does not actually shed a new perspective on his character, either. We already knew that he is a calculating ass. We don't need to see that again.

The Talisa/Robb thing is so wrong from pretty much any perspective. I still don't understand how and why he fell in love with Talisa, nor does this make sense in the show. Why does he in the light of the Seven? Why does he marry at all? Why does he not keep Talisa as his mistress only? They love each other, sure, but why do they have to marry? Why does he break the Frey contract when he actually seems to think this whole thing through on a rational level (during his conversation with Cat)? What does make him so horny during Talisa's boring story of her brother? Why are we supposed to believe that a young man like Robb would actually fall in love with a filthy woman who cuts off hands and feet for a living?

If they had kept at least the part about Talisa giving him comfort after the alleged deaths of Bran and Rickon, this would have made a little more sense. Robb could have received a wound in battle, and Talisa could have helped him. Hell, they could have made Talisa at least a smart woman offering Robb counsel. Instead she complains about his war, his quest for vengeance, pretty much everything he is forced to do. I don't see how such a woman should interest a person in Robb's emotional state.

But the worst things are Jon/Ygritte and the Qarth thing. I really can't watch those Jon scenes anymore. They are boring most of the time, and as repetitive as the Arya scenes with Tywin. Ygritte's humor could have waited until season 3, just as Gilly and Sam are going to meet each other there.

[Revolver]

I don't see them getting rid of the filler, simply for the reason they don't know all the ins and outs of all the characters since GRRM still has two more books to release. If they started the TV series when all the books were released, I could see them not even adding imaginary characters like Ros.

I wish we could get more episodes in a season. Although, I did like the 10 episode first season. Does anyone know if it would be cheaper to just get 12-14 episodes into a season? It seems like it would save them money. How long of a time period is ASOS anyway? Because the actors playing the children are going to looks older the longer breaks they take in between seasons. Sounds like it would looks weird. But yeah, I wish we could at the very LEAST get 12 episodes a season. This is HBO's biggest show. You would think they would do everything in their power to do this right.

I also wish we see more of the battles and fights. Hopefully they add more of those. I know they have a budget, but I pictured the Battle of the Blackwater to be much bigger.

[StannisEndGame]

They are doing it right for the casual viewers, not for the book purists..

[Mr Fixit]

They are doing it right for the casual viewers, not for the book purists..

A simplistic view. You can be a hardcore fan of the show without being purist. Without having read the books at all, actually.

[RSasoiaf]

Book Robb doesn't marry for love, he marries for honor. TV Robb will marry for love. In order to establish the blatant Frey betrayal they needed the viewer to understand why he would do it, thereby empathizing more with him to set up the Red Wedding to be even more emotionally stirring. Sure, they could have kept the Westerling story as is, but it would be bad for TV in comparison. As far as you haven't seen anything that would make Robb love Talisa? Are you really arguing that? She's strong, smart, independent, high born, and beautiful.

Your Braveheart comparison is so off base I won't even address that.

And here we go again....I still cant get it!

1 - Where do you read that Robb did not love Jeyne? As far as I know, it was never really discussed. We never get Robb´s POV character and what we get are mostly other people trying to figure out what he did. We never get into his mind to trully know what happened. For tv this is actually quite nice because we can imagine what we want. So I already agree with the show´s view that Robb married for love. You are actually the one who disagrees with them. No issue here from my side.

2 - Talissa is:

a) strong: I guess because she was introduced as a doctor who cuts arms and legs. Ok. I dont think that would actually be something usual for girls on the context of the show. I also dont understand why someone like Robb would marry someone like that. It is totally against everything he must have learned since childhood. Its like if he would marry Old Nan´s daughter or something like that because she would take care of other people.

B) smart: Not sure about this one really. Everyone can clearly see what they are both doing is not the brightest idea or best plan around. Even without insight, I dont see where do you get that she is that smart.

c) independent: Is she? Why? We actually dont know what is her status inside Robb´s camp. Could be she is more like a camp follower or servant. We do not know. And if she actually is independent then again that makes no sense on the context of the show.

d) High Born: She is a foreigner!!! And as far as we have been told, whatever status she has seems to be of totally no value in Westeros. Or at least it never comes across as something that could be important. No one says that anywhere.

e) Beautiful: Altough beauty is allways in the eyes of the beholder, I can give you this one ;)

No issue with you not adressing my Braveheart example. I think you just dont get what I was trying to say with it. I do not claim that was exactly what they should have done neither do I say its the same story back to back. Nop! I just throw in there an example to show that love can be told without details. Love can be told almost only using image and music. Braveheart does that flawlessly with Muron. She barely has any lines and still she works as a character and quite a strong one.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

And here we go again....I still cant get it!

1 - Where do you read that Robb did not love Jeyne? As far as I know, it was never really discussed. We never get Robb´s POV character and what we get are mostly other people trying to figure out what he did. We never get into his mind to trully know what happened. For tv this is actually quite nice because we can imagine what we want. So I already agree with the show´s view that Robb married for love. You are actually the one who disagrees with them. No issue here from my side.

2 - Talissa is:

a) strong: I guess because she was introduced as a doctor who cuts arms and legs. Ok. I dont think that would actually be something usual for girls on the context of the show. I also dont understand why someone like Robb would marry someone like that. It is totally against everything he must have learned since childhood. Its like if he would marry Old Nan´s daughter or something like that because she would take care of other people.

B) smart: Not sure about this one really. Everyone can clearly see what they are both doing is not the brightest idea or best plan around. Even without insight, I dont see where do you get that she is that smart.

c) independent: Is she? Why? We actually dont know what is her status inside Robb´s camp. Could be she is more like a camp follower or servant. We do not know. And if she actually is independent then again that makes no sense on the context of the show.

d) High Born: She is a foreigner!!! And as far as we have been told, whatever status she has seems to be of totally no value in Westeros. Or at least it never comes across as something that could be important. No one says that anywhere.

e) Beautiful: Altough beauty is allways in the eyes of the beholder, I can give you this one ;)

No issue with you not adressing my Braveheart example. I think you just dont get what I was trying to say with it. I do not claim that was exactly what they should have done neither do I say its the same story back to back. Nop! I just throw in there an example to show that love can be told without details. Love can be told almost only using image and music. Braveheart does that flawlessly with Muron. She barely has any lines and still she works as a character and quite a strong one.

1) That's the point exactly. You have no idea if he loved her but you assume in his moment of need and weakness he has sex with Jeyne and marries her for honor. In the show it's much more clear that Robb married for love than honor. In fact his relationship with Talisa is the opposite of honor. But as a viewer you feel two things: Woah this might be a mistake, and ahh I don't know if I can completely fault the guy.

2)

a) Because we only fall in love with girls that we're used to? That's pretty silly, we often prefer men/women who are different than what we've grown used to. And yes amputating injured soldiers in agony is a sign of strength, although the fact that she's running around a battlefield alone is pretty stupid.

c) She's independent because she left her home and comforts to run around alone to treat soldiers. She's not staying in 5 star castles and obviously doesn't have a husband supporting her. Although this is from the ignorant perspective where you're not supposed to wonder if she's a spy meant to screw over Robb

d) She's high born. She can read and write. She speaks like a highborn girl and looks like one. Robb says it's obvious. Common girls can't read/write and speak eloquently. I think Tywin makes this pretty clear. Being high born is a HUGE deal for marriages to noble Lords. You know this with any knowledge of feudal marriage arrangements.

And I think if they're going to do with Talisa what I think they might, it actually makes it even more tragic. If Talisa ends up just being a huge mistake without plotting I will come back after S3 and admit with you that they botched it :)

[SerMixalot]

So in all of the TV show and book, throughout all of Westeros and Easteros, we only need 2 more weddings based on love and we will then have a grand total of 3 weddings based on love.