Becoming No One: Rereading Arya III

[Blisscraft]

First, Blisscraft, this was amazingly beautiful, insightful and really wondefully written analysis. As always, well done.

In this chapter, GRRM tangled the web between Stark sisters so tightly, that entire symbolic imagery works in that way. From Sandor`s death closely where Lady died, to mercy, given by Sansa, and reused by Arya, all the way to purple color, the color of royalty, and in a way here, it`s the color of death. Sansa`s pirple hairnet brought death to Joffrey, as Arya was sailing on the ship with purple sails, marking the start of her road towards FM. Also, just purple color suignifies the consequent loss of identity. Sansa became Alayne, after entire incident with hairnet, as Arya will start her apprenticeship after getting off the purple sails. In a way, it beautifully signifies the lost of royal status, and transition into something else - bastard and FM. This chapter symbolically foreshadows the connection between two sisters, and the bond they share.

Again, as always, congratulations on great analysis, Blisscraft. It was indeed pleasure to read it.

Thank you! I agree with your examples. Well done!

I 'm now reading the chapter immagining close-up shots and having Morricone's music playing in my head :)

I love it!

[Lykos]

<snip>

The Titan’s Daughter –

The ship has an interesting name with regards to Arya’s character as she is very much like the titan, Leto’s daughter, Artemis. Like Artemis, Arya is a maiden, loves the hunt (in the guise of Nymeria), the moon, (this becomes more apparent later), and is an independent spirit. Certainly, there are distinctions with the goddess Artemis, but the similarities do not seem coincidental and neither does the name of the ship that will carry her to Braavos.

<snip>

I like this allusion to Artemis very much. I have compared Sansa to Iphigenia in the Tyrion reread. In one version Iphigenia´s father Agamemnon angers Artemis by killing a stag in her holy grove in another she is offended by Agamemnon´s soldiers killing a pregnant hare (Joffrey´s crossbow practise comes to mind).

Iphigenia was meant to be sacrificed to appease Artemis, who had becalmed Agamemnon´s fleet on it´s way to Troy. When Iphigenia willingly agrees to the sacrifice out of a sense of duty, Artemis takes her away to Tauris where she serves as a priestess to Artemis.

Her name was said to be derived from artamos - butcher (Mycah), though it is more commonly assumed that it comes from arktos - bear, which has become as arktic a synonym for everything northern after the northern constellations "the Great Bear" and "the Little Bear" with the Northern Star at it´s tail.

Another nice tidbit from the wikipage on Artemis.

"Pan gave Artemis two black-and-white dogs, three reddish ones, and one spotted one - these dogs were able to hunt even lions."

And another.

"... at three years old, Artemis, while sitting on the knee of her father, Zeus, asked him to grant her six wishes: to remain always a virgin; to have many names to set her apart from her brother Apollo; to be the Phaesporia or Light Bringer; to have a bow and arrow and a knee-length tunic so that she could hunt; to have sixty "daughters of Okeanos", all nine years of age, to be her choir; ..."

The daughters of the titan Okeanos bring me to believe that Martin has used both norse and greek myths in this chapter. The norse jotun (who resemble much more titans than the greek giants) Ægir is also known as the sea-giant Hlér. He has nine maiden daughters who represent the waves. (Our King of the board might know that the mother is Ægir´s wife Ran.) He lives on an island called Hlésey (isle of Hlér) where Thor had an interesting welcome.

" She-wolves they were, and scarcely women. They crushed my ship, which with props I had secured, with iron clubs threatened me, and drove away Thiâlfi. What meanwhile didst thou, Harbard?

These "women" are either personified waves or jötnar."

Læsø, as the island is known today, also has an interesting trade. The groundwater that contains 15% salt is seethed into salt to preserve the fish which is exported as well as the salt itself. Now I´m unsure what you envision when you read saltpans, since pans are basically flat containers. So it could be this, but I thought of this. In german we call them siedepfanne - seethingpan. Is the prince that was promised to be born in Saltpans?

A fun fact from the wikipage on salt.

"From about 2800 BC, the Egyptians began exporting salt fish to the Phoenicians in return for Lebanon cedar, glass, and the dye Tyrian purple; the Phoenicians traded Egyptian salt fish and salt from North Africa throughout their Mediterranean trade empire."

I wish I could say that the people of Hlésey were trading their salt fish for Tyrian purple, but that would be highly doubtful. ;)

Nice write up, Blisscraft.

Yes, very nice, Blisscraft. And you too, Ragnorak. I feel the need to link to MLY´s post on revenge again. The Tickler is Arya´s first kill from her list not counting Jaquen´s murders in Harrenhal that she didn´t commit herself and had been offed very close to the time they had been added to her list. Thankfully she is sending him a message as she is executing her revenge and I´m not entirely sure that the Tickler would have been capable of feeling remorse for all the suffering he caused, so in Septon Lummel´s stead I hear your confession and absolve you of your sin of cackling. You don´t even have to wear a hair shirt - that´s a stupid way of attonement anyway - I disapprove of self castigation. Confessing is good though and since no damage is done by cackling, you´re good.

I think Arya is shown several consequences of killing in this chapter. The mercy Needle gives to the squire might makes her wonder wether the Tickler got off too easily. Maybe that´s why she refuses the same mercy when Sandor asked for it, or it was because he tried to provoke her into punishing him for failling Sansa. I´m a bit unclear wether Sandors wounds would have been this close to fatal had he been in a different state of mind. You know with less of a death wish.

Arya is borne by a craven to Saltpans, where her path is changed by chance when she couldn´t find a ship to Jon, she took the next best thing she had that promised the stability and education of a family. Braavos, the place of Syrio, her teacher by appointment of her father. While another "craven" makes Jon take charge of the Night´s Watch.

I want to avoid the word destiny, it´s a very loaded word for me. And Jon and Arya both take charge of their lives as soon as these chances present themselves, but before that they appeared to be lost and there was some sense of resignation.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

A few random observations and back to work :(

Blisscraft, I might have an answer for your wine question after all:

“Looking for a cup of wine. Innkeep, a flagon of red.” Clegane threw a handful of coppers on the floor.

“I don’t want no trouble, ser,” the innkeep said.

“Then don’t call me ser.” His mouth twitched. “Are you deaf, fool? I ordered wine.” As the man ran off, Clegane shouted after him, “Two cups! The girl’s thirsty too!”

The red wine is a reference to blood IMO, at least in this context. Sandor is thirsty: “I was hoping you’d do something stupid.” Arya, here, has not expressed any thirst, literally or metaphorically, but I think this line is there on purpose. By the end, they both “drink” and leave the inn covered in blood. Sandor mostly in his own, Arya in Tickler’s and Polliver’s, retrieving Needle.

On revenge:

This is how it really feels.

Jofftey’s dead! She knew it ought to make her happy, but somehow she still felt empty inside. Joffrey was dead, but if Robb was dead too, what did it matter?

She later wonders if it would feel better if she was there to see Joffrey die, or do it herself, but it has already happened: she saw Polliver being killed, and she personally took care of the Tickler. Three names out of her list, but it just feels “queer”.

It seems as if the Tickler’s memorable death happens, to please the reader rather than to relieve Arya. Still, she stubbornly keeps on her list. Of course, she’s not one to thoroughly analyze her own feelings and I ’m not sure to what extent she’s capable of doing it, due to her age. But I wonder if she sees revenge more as a duty to her family and her beloved ones, especially now that she’s, as far as she knows, the last Stark.

Purple and Iron:

Jumping ahead a little… Both are connected to the city of Braavos, the newest and most flourishing of the free cities. Braavosi ships have purple sails and dock at the Purple Harbor. The city’s most prominent institution is the Iron Bank and their coins are made of iron (or is it only the FM coins?). The symbolism of purple color and iron and their connection to Braavos in relation to the history of the city may be significant and something to think about.

[liberal teapot]

The purple hairnet ties back to the Braavosi, in that Littlefinger helped arrange the assassination, and the connection to poison, cf the waif. The Titan is a defensive weapon for Braavos, much as i believe that the faceless men are. I agree shadowcat rivers that that tie does suggest more to it. One of the daughter's of the titans was Selene, the godess of the moon.

The red wine would signpost upcoming venegence as per http://asoiaf.wester...-what-we-found/

[Blisscraft]

Thank you, Lykos. Excellent post about Artemis and the Saltpans. :bowdown: There is an expression in italian I learned many years ago that translates to english as "without salt." Basically, it means that a person (usually), place or thing lacks "personality" or is boring. I think when Arya takes the name, "Salty" later on, it shows her "personality."

Thanks to you, too, Shadow Cat. Red wine and blood. Nice metaphor for the events in the inn. Good insights, too, about Braavos and revenge.

Thank you, too, liberal teapot. Another titan; another chapter. . . Braavos and the Goddess of the Moon. . .

[Ragnorak]

It's so true about Sansa. . . . and yet, the little purple trader takes Arya away. I'm not sure what to make of it, but your idea about parallel is a sound one. It's something to think about. . . I'll try not to hurt myself.

I like this idea, too. The Hound isn't spriritually ready, is he? Also, in another parallel with Sansa, Sandor sobs over the song he took from Sansa in a CoK. The song she sang to him begins, "Gentle Mother, font of mercy. . ."

Ragnorak - I agree about Martin's writing, especially in this chapter. The entry into the inn has a very "Spaghetti Western" feel to it. I can almost hear the saloon doors swinging on their hinges as Arya and Sandor enter. The player piano stops. And every bar patron turns menacingly towards the intruders. There is stillness and an audible silence broken by the clink of metal.

Any thoughts about Sandor's tears? It's interesting that it takes a minute or so for Arya to recognize that he is "sobbing." Also, any thoughts about ghosts? Ghosts seem to follow Arya the way they follow Paulie "Walnuts" Gaultieri in the Sopranos.

Finally, "cackled maniacally" did you? I would like to hear that. You must explain why. I am intrigued.

Also, thank you FE and Ragnorak.

I take my poetic justice very seriously! On a first read the Red Wedding just happened and Cat and Robb die aside from the overall blow to the North, the Starks, and the seemingly rewarding future in store for the despicable people. Small things like Cat never knowing her children lived still echo as the story unfolds. Even here Arya manages to keep silent over everything but the deaths of everyone at Harrenhal. It was home for a time and though not everyone there was especially friendly to her or close to her it is yet another place with people she had come to know who've been wiped out completely. Martin does an exceptional job of building up frustration at injustice throughout the series and particularly focuses on it in Arya. Gregor's men recall the torture when they were first captured, Chiswyck's tale, the nameless prettier girl taken four or five a night-- these people have been begging for a very cruel fate from the moment they graced the page. Martin sets us up to relish a poor traumatized child having a pretty horrific breakdown as she fights for her very life. I noticed that part too on my first but while Arya's sense of vengeance felt empty with Robb gone mine did not.

This seems to have a bit of a Sansa tie in too:

“Maybe Lady Lysa will marry you to her little Robert. There’s a match I’d like to see.” He started to laugh, then groaned instead.

Sandor sobbing the last time they both see him, a return to the Inn where they had their fight, Arya initially being taken by Sandor to the same place Sansa is going, the Titan's Daughter which is a Braavosi ship just like the Merling King aside from the Alayne connection. Hmm... not sure but if I had to make a wild guess I would say there's some foreshadowing of Arya returning to the Vale. Any other thoughts on the subtle Sansa connections?

There's also the small detail of the stable owner being behind the sept. When was the last Arya chapter without reference to a sept?

[Blisscraft]

Ragnorak - about vengence - This probably isn't clear from my posts, but the desire for vengence basically makes one a "dead man walking." As in Hamlet, the outcome is certain: once the son undertakes to avenge his father's murder, a stream of bodies will flow in in his vengence's wake.

The desires for vengence and its inevitable outcome seems to be one of the main themes in ASoIaF. Ned is "wrongfully" beheaded. Robb must avenge. Robb "betrays" the Freys. Walder Frey must avenge. Theon Greyjoy "avenges" his brothers deaths and takes Winterfell. . . . and on and on. This is perhaps the reason that I can't forsee a "happy ending," especially for our beautiful Arya. If anything, the training awaiting her in Braavos will attempt to take the need for vengence out of her troubled psyche. Although, I must confess, I don't think that it succeeds.

I must confess that I, too, (didn't cackle, though, more of a "fist pump") was very relieved when Arya was able to avenge her losses upon The Tickler. It is a catharsis and also a hope that somehow the world is fair and that there will be justice. The truth is, we all really know better. Perhaps that is why Scripture says "vengence is mine, says the Lord." It cannot belong to us.

[chimere]

The desires for vengence and its inevitable outcome seems to be one of the main themes in ASoIaF. Ned is "wrongfully" beheaded. Robb must avenge. Robb "betrays" the Freys. Walder Frey must avenge. Theon Greyjoy "avenges" his brothers deaths and takes Winterfell. . . . and on and on. This is perhaps the reason that I can't forsee a "happy ending," especially for our beautiful Arya. If anything, the training awaiting her in Braavos will attempt to take the need for vengence out of her troubled psyche. Although, I must confess, I don't think that it succeeds.

Here is what I'm wondering about Arya and a happy ending, people always cling to "GRRM told his wife he wouldn't kill her!" but I've heard sooo many variations on it, like he really said he wouldn't kill her until the last book or he lied to her so that he wouldn't have to sleep on the couch forever. If she lives until the end and is a Stark is that a happy ending? If he trolls his wife by letting her live by becomming a no one is that a happy ending? I don't know what would make a better story for me, her dying doing something heroically awesome or her living with the weight of her sins (a la Xena). Neither of those endings are "happy" though. IMO an unhappy ending for her would be to become a no one or to die doing something stupid, but I'm sure many people would disagree about her becomming a no one would be an unhappy ending.

OH also, I LOVE how Arya is always a few days behind Jaime. First at the kneeling inn and then at the town where the mummers stole the statues of the 7. Jaime traveled from Riverrun to Harrenhal and finally to home, Arya from Harrenhall to Riverrun and finally far away from home. Jaime is on his redemption arc, Arya is on her whatever the opposite of that is, I call it her "descent into darkness" but I'm just being dramatic. GRRM is fantastic.

[Elba the Intoner]

Really nice posts everyone. (Are you all having as hard a time getting on this site as I am? Once I manage to get to a page I want to read I'm afraid to click on the next page for fear that I'll get booted off with another error message. Glad I finally managed to get on here.) Anyway, the one comment I had about this chapter is the part about how Arya gives Sandor some water to drink but he only takes a little because it tasted like mud and he hates the taste of mud. In the previous chapter Arya gives the dying Northman water before they give him the mercy and he drinks it all up and even licks the helm to get more, saying that it's good. Earlier on, Arya gives the caged Northmen water to drink before they are finally killed and they drink it up trying to get as much as they can (and just after this the Hound shows up). This is the opposite of what Sandor does. Given how Arya has a habit of giving full amounts of water to men just before they physically die, I think this contrast here is meant to foreshadow that Sandor will not physically die just yet.

Also, he does not like the taste of muddy water. Remember how in the Red Wedding chapter Arya was covered in mud and got a bunch in her mouth? This symbolized the death and burial of her childhood innocence. Sandor does not want this. He does not like the mud which I take to mean he is not ready to be buried or not ready to set aside that part of him that should be buried. However, later we'll see that a part of him will be buried as the Elder Brother tells Brienne he buried his flesh himself. It's not a full burial though but represents the part of him that is angry, traumatized and, to tie this in with the vengeance discussion, vengeful. His vengeance to kill his brother has consumed him and what does it give him in the end? Nothing. ETA He needs to set that aside or bury it before he can move on to a new life.

[The Sleeper]

Last chapter for Arya and Sandor was a curtain call on their previous life so this one is a chpater about loose ends, roads not taken, recriminations, regret, reckoning and embarking on new paths. Appropriately enough it takes place on a crossroads.

The crossroads

Thinking back it's hard to emphasize how iconic this particulalr inn has been throughout the series and beyond. Daemon Blackfyre Jr appeared on the road to the corssroads to Duncan with a golden fiddle as a sigil and then made sure to tempt him. Lady Catelyn and Tyrion emabrked on a journey there that carried them far from their intended destinations and dragged the rest of Westeros with them, and finally this is where Brienne had to come to a choice of North, South and East. It eventually led her to have to chose between loyalties. It is also easy to see it as a kind of limbo. Certainly, it's current denizens (the orphans) and the ones in charge of it (the BwB) seem to linger in a place in between their past and a dead end. It is no wonder that Rorge and Biter finally met their end there. It is also easy to see how well Arya and the Hound would have fit in there and indeed their discarded personnas still linger in the place, so much that Brienne thinks she might be among the orphans and the Hound's helmet never seems to lack for willing bearers.

That is not the case, however for our unlikely heroes as they have paid their dues, faced their ghosts and moved on.

The first thing I have noticed is that the dynamic between Arya and the Hound has changed. She is the alert, aware and prudent one while Sandor's very much behaves like he doesn't care anymore. She notices dispositions, enemies, weapons, opportunities for escape and later dresses the Hound's wounds. One thing that I think gets overlooked is how terrifying and gruesome the fight a the inn was. The squire ended up gutted, Polliver's head exploded, I can't imagine the Tickler made for a pretty sight either and the Hound is described as looking like nothing human, Arya describes herself as being near panick in some instant and the mere hint of having to return to the inn, threatens to throw her of the edge again.

The roads not taken.

In the same scene we get mentions of the Blackfish, Lysa Tully and Jeyne Poole being used as an impostor. Martin seems to be listing what he might have done with Arya. For one or another reasons these destinations are taken off the table and range from tolerable and possibly interesting to horrific. Riverrun is besieged and about to fall, which is kind of a bummer as I think the no-nonsense Blackfish would have appreciated his headstong, determined grand-niece. The Eyrie is closed to them and either way it is not a desirebale destination. While Arya getting married to Sweetrobin might be very amusing to the readers it is very unlikely that the characters involved would be likewise amused. Which brings us to the last option. While it is pretty horrific, it shows us that even Arya's niche as a hostage has now been occupied and a possible reemergence would lead to her death. Sansa has been claimed by the Lannisters and has disappeared so Arya has finally become what she pretended to have been all this time. A lost orphan.

I think Arya's thought about Sansa and her belief that she would never marry the Imp is worth mentioning because it is indicative of her mentality and her way of thinking. She finds it hard to conceive that her sister did not have a choice in the matter. For her, personal choice and responcibility is not a matter of circumstances or any other external factors or pressures, such as orders or threats. Her self-loathing, her condemantion of the Hound, her disappointment over Gendry abandoning her, her fierce hatred of individual enemy soldiers can all be explained in the context set by this view.

Ghosts from the past.

Sandor faces the unwelcome prospect of falling captive to his brother's men which inevitably leads to him being in his brother's mercy once again. Arya faces the Tickler. I think the latter is easily the individual who has terrorised and traumatized Arya the most, depriving her of hope and courage. Indeed, after he is long dead he still inhabits her nightmares and the dread he invokes has not gone away. The Tickler lacks any distinguishing characteristics. He is of average height and build and has a face so unremarkable that someone can forget he is even there. Quite a far cry from a storybook monster. Yet those, who have been at his mercy can never forget hm as he can obliterate an individual inside and out and he is dangerous on so many more levels than his comrades. While the others don't see past self-gratification he sees his victims and remembers Arya. During the fight he assesses the situation, finds the opportunity to inflict the most damage and gives cold promises, with his eyes.

Arya's and Sanodr's reactions are markedly different. Arya wants to run while Sandor wants a fight.

Revenge and reckoning

Arya's prayer gets considerably shorter during this chapter one way or another. Polliver is no more important than the role he plays. A ruthless, efficient mercenary who took away Needle, the symbol of Arya's strenght and legacy and stood as a dangerous opponent in a fight. Not out of malice, but simply out of opportunity. Much like the chinese proverb she found his corpse by the river and knelt in his blood to reclaim it. Hardly a thought is spared about him. Killing the Tickler had something cathartic and something psychotic about it. It is important to note that Arya still remembered many of his questions by heart; It seems that with the questions come out all of the frustration, fear, anger she had penned up during her time wandering through the riverlands. It is a lot and she has to be stopped by the Hound from stabbing him. As if a pustule had ruptured.

Joffrey's death tastes like ashes in her mouth. Joffrey's was an enemy in a fight that has been lost. No victory was won, no one was saved, not even the satisfaction of witnessing the event knowing she had survived her enemy. I think part of it is also her awareness that Joffrey himself was no great enemy (she had after defeated and humiliated him herself) but just the figurehead of the machine that deprived her of her friend, her home and her family and that machine is very much in place, while she herslef remains hopelessly lost.

The Death of the Hound

To say that Arya has a complicated realtionship would be an understatement. She thoroughly hates him. In this chapter she finds reason to hate him not for only for what he has done but for what he is, as well, seeing his rapport with the Mountain's men. She has already tried to kill him twice, once with a knife and once with a rock. She is also afraid of him. Yet, she stays and fights by his side, despite an obvious chance to escape, refuses to flee, despite the fight gaining momentum against them and later dresses his wounds and stays with him for another day, despite the obvious fact that he was in no shape to pursue should she have tried to run. And forgets to name him in her prayer, quite to her surpirse. As she admits to herself, she finds it hard to hold on the reasons for hating him and yet seems to do so out sheer stubborness. What it comes down to in the end is that he is all she has left, the last person who knows her. During their final scene, a strange reversal takes place. Death truly becomes an act of mercy while letting him leave becomes cruelty. Sandor breaks down and asks her to kill him, recounting his sins and his failings. Arya is enraged and leaves, hoping for a crueler fate for him. I think she couldn't bring herself to do it. Pity has stopped her from killing him once before and she uses his crimes as an excuse to avoid the responcibility, which in the entirety of Arya's arc is a unique instance, somewhat akin to her telling off Gendry rather than telling him she would miss him and that she was hurt by his choice to remain with the BwB.

A new path

Six days later she finds herself at Saltpans with only the slim possibility of getting to Jon Snow, in mind. Craven, the horse that has taken her there is left behind and sold. Alas, she cannot get the coin she nees as her assumed personna has become too deeply ingrained to shake off. The stable owner correctly assumes the horse's origin though her reason for doing so are somewhat off the mark, unaware she is talking to someone whose title was princess not so long ago. Arya would preffer to kill than allow herself to be robbed, she takes the meager price, rueing the fact that she is not as intimidating as Sandor Clegane. The meagre coin she gets is nowhere near enough, so she finds herself in need of paying yet another ferryman with a coin that she gained for being murderous and receiving a reply that I personally find much more fatefull and ominous than its prompt: Valar Dohaerys.

ETA @ Blisscraft and Shadowcat. You guys are in my head. I can totally imagine the fight taking place inside a salloon and Sandor wearing gunbelts across his chest. I also figured that Sandor's mouth twitch is actually Clint Eastwood's expression in Sergio Leone's westerns, permantently fixed to his face.

[liberal teapot]

Arya tried to pay the gold price to return north, but instead has had to pay the Iron price to go to Braavos, the city of the Iron Bank. The iron price on the islands comes with death, as does this one.

As salty on her way to braavos we see that Arya has assumed her sixth name. Arya has lost her pack, home, wolf, hope, and her innocence. As we see another collection of sevens, She seems to be Ishtar on her way to the underworld. Mesopotamia Ishtar is the cognate for the Sumerian Inanna. Arya began her losses in the riverlands, Mesopotamia is the land of rivers, or the land between rivers. Sumer is the land of the civilized kings, or native land.

Ishtar was the goddess of war, love, sex and fertility. Her love causes death or enslavement even to gods. She decided to undertake the journey to the Underworld as she mourned her lost love despite the promise of no return. The Goddess of the underworld sought to teach her a lesson. She passes through seven doorways, and each gatekeeper removes clothes and her symbols of divinity. Once there she tastes only mud and dust, and lives in darkness covered in feathers and with bird's wings. She escapes when the waters of life are sprinkled upon her. Dust, mud, feathers and bird's wings fall off her, and she was resurrected. She received her lost garments as she was guided back through he gates. She regained her power upon re-emergence from the cave, and her beauty shone for the world to see. The sailors and traders, bulls, stallions and sheep rejoiced. In this Myth it is notable that the Goddess of the underworld, has a Lion's head, and that the underworld is a place of darkness.

Ishtar as portrayed in the epic of Gilgamesh is a petulant, bed tempered person spoiled by her father. In this tale she causes death to the Bull of heaven.

There is a wonderful tie between the two characters that I felt worth mentioning.

[Ulrik1312]

Really nice posts everyone. (Are you all having as hard a time getting on this site as I am? Once I manage to get to a page I want to read I'm afraid to click on the next page for fear that I'll get booted off with another error message. Glad I finally managed to get on here.) Anyway, the one comment I had about this chapter is the part about how Arya gives Sandor some water to drink but he only takes a little because it tasted like mud and he hates the taste of mud. In the previous chapter Arya gives the dying Northman water before they give him the mercy and he drinks it all up and even licks the helm to get more, saying that it's good. Earlier on, Arya gives the caged Northmen water to drink before they are finally killed and they drink it up trying to get as much as they can (and just after this the Hound shows up). This is the opposite of what Sandor does. Given how Arya has a habit of giving full amounts of water to men just before they physically die, I think this contrast here is meant to foreshadow that Sandor will not physically die just yet.

Also, he does not like the taste of muddy water. Remember how in the Red Wedding chapter Arya was covered in mud and got a bunch in her mouth? This symbolized the death and burial of her childhood innocence. Sandor does not want this. He does not like the mud which I take to mean he is not ready to be buried or not ready to set aside that part of him that should be buried. However, later we'll see that a part of him will be buried as the Elder Brother tells Brienne he buried his flesh himself. It's not a full burial though but represents the part of him that is angry, traumatized and, to tie this in with the vengeance discussion, vengeful. His vengeance to kill his brother has consumed him and what does it give him in the end? Nothing. ETA He needs to set that aside or bury it before he can move on to a new life.

About the mud, I remember the monologue of Barristan in ADwD about mud and fire. I don't know what to make of it, but it really pop out in mi head. What did Barristan say? Only fools, children and little girls choose fire. So are they refusing mud? Or is there a third option?

With Sandor, we know he wouldn't pick fire (his hound side maybe?) for obvious reasons but in here mud is not of his liking either. He just took a very small amount, may be mud is related to his time in the Quite Island? He thought he wanted but it will turn out is not of his liking?

And I would also like to know how Arya's relation with mud would have a conection with the speech of Barristan.

I hope the brilliant minds of this reread could help men with these interrogants.

By the way, I really like these re-reads. And sorry for my mistakes I'm not very good writing in English.

[Blisscraft]

Here is what I'm wondering about Arya and a happy ending, people always cling to "GRRM told his wife he wouldn't kill her!" but I've heard sooo many variations on it, like he really said he wouldn't kill her until the last book or he lied to her so that he wouldn't have to sleep on the couch forever. If she lives until the end and is a Stark is that a happy ending? If he trolls his wife by letting her live by becomming a no one is that a happy ending? I don't know what would make a better story for me, her dying doing something heroically awesome or her living with the weight of her sins (a la Xena). Neither of those endings are "happy" though. IMO an unhappy ending for her would be to become a no one or to die doing something stupid, but I'm sure many people would disagree about her becomming a no one would be an unhappy ending.

OH also, I LOVE how Arya is always a few days behind Jaime. First at the kneeling inn and then at the town where the mummers stole the statues of the 7. Jaime traveled from Riverrun to Harrenhal and finally to home, Arya from Harrenhall to Riverrun and finally far away from home. Jaime is on his redemption arc, Arya is on her whatever the opposite of that is, I call it her "descent into darkness" but I'm just being dramatic. GRRM is fantastic.

Interesting point about Martin's promise. . . ."Promise me, George." We'll have to wait and see, won't we. DARNIT! :bang:

Also, love the point about Jaime. Arya is always a step ahead or behind another important character. Close but so far. DARNIT! :bang:

Elba - Great points about water and mud. Mudluscious, really! :drool:

Joffrey's death tastes like ashes in her mouth. Joffrey's was an enemy in a fight that has been lost. No victory was won, no one was saved, not even the satisfaction of witnessing the event knowing she had survived her enemy. I think part of it is also her awareness that Joffrey himself was no great enemy (she had after defeated and humiliated him herself) but just the figurehead of the machine that deprived her of her friend, her home and her family and that machine is very much in place, while she herslef remains hopelessly lost.

ETA @ Blisscraft and Shadowcat. You guys are in my head. I can totally imagine the fight taking place inside a salloon and Sandor wearing gunbelts across his chest. I also figured that Sandor's mouth twitch is actually Clint Eastwood's expression in Sergio Leone's westerns, permantently fixed to his face.

JAO - love this point about Joffrey and Leone.

Liberal Teapot - The parallel with Istar is wonderful. There is a correlation between the goddesses mention above, Artemis and Selene, and Ishtar, as well as the goddess Hecate, the goddess of the crossroads, and one of three Greek goddesses associated with the Moon (along with Selene, and Hecate). It aways amazes me how related our human stories are.

Ulrik1312 - Barristan's quote is an interesting association as he is refering to Quentyn compared to Gerrold in ADwD, if I remember correctly. Interesting especially since Quentyn is called, "Frog," a creature that generally seems to prefer mud and water.

Thank you for joining us. Your english is fine. I am a native speaker and I always make mistakes. Part of this is that the english language is like water, in that it is fluid and changes, and mud, in that it is often very sticky and impossible to see through.

[Odon]

Part Three – Saltpans

Arya arrives at the Saltpans six days later. She sees three ships in the harbor. One of the ships is a salt sea trader with purple hull and sails. She realizes that she will have to sell her horse, Craven, and does. She doesn’t get very much for her mare and tack, as the stable woman knows that both horse and tack are stolen.

Arya goes to the purple ship and offers its captain what little money she has for passage north. The trader refuses her money and won't take her north because of pirates and tells her he is heading home. Arya asks where his home is. He tells her home is the Free City of Braavos. His ship is the Titan’s Daughter.

Once Arya hears the destination, she pulls out the iron coin that Jaqen H’gar gave her and offers it to the captain. Arya says the words, “Valar morghulis.” The captain responds with, “Valar dohaeris,” and offers her a cabin.

There's a bit left out here that's worth mentioning: Arya thinks of killing the woman at Saltpans who tries to cheat her, but can't because there are people around. Even though her taste for vengeance has been reduced somewhat, Arya's black-and-white morality is still going strong.

[Lyanna Stark]

Hi guys, just wanted to quickly pop by and say hello and well done. Working on catching up on the re-read which looks so amazingly interesting but have been hampered by having my husband hospitalised and being alone with a 3 year old and a baby for a while. Really looking forward to reading everyone's contributions!

[Fire Eater]

Hi guys, just wanted to quickly pop by and say hello and well done. Working on catching up on the re-read which looks so amazingly interesting but have been hampered by having my husband hospitalised and being alone with a 3 year old and a baby for a while. Really looking forward to reading everyone's contributions!

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope he's alright.

[brashcandy]

Hi guys, just wanted to quickly pop by and say hello and well done. Working on catching up on the re-read which looks so amazingly interesting but have been hampered by having my husband hospitalised and being alone with a 3 year old and a baby for a while. Really looking forward to reading everyone's contributions!

Hope he gets better soon Lyanna. xx

[Alberich]

Hi guys, just wanted to quickly pop by and say hello and well done. Working on catching up on the re-read which looks so amazingly interesting but have been hampered by having my husband hospitalised and being alone with a 3 year old and a baby for a while. Really looking forward to reading everyone's contributions!

Hope he gets better soon, too and wish the very best for you and your family.

[The Sleeper]

Hi guys, just wanted to quickly pop by and say hello and well done. Working on catching up on the re-read which looks so amazingly interesting but have been hampered by having my husband hospitalised and being alone with a 3 year old and a baby for a while. Really looking forward to reading everyone's contributions!

Hope it's nothing serious and gets better soon. Hang in there.

[Lummel]

...have been hampered by having my husband hospitalised and being alone with a 3 year old and a baby for a while...

What did you do to him this time? Don't forget that husbands are also breakable! ;)

Tek care :)