Ramsay Gimp Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 oh, ha. semantic ambiguity on my end. i meant not that rand wasn't read by many people, but rather that she herself does not appear to have been a big reader, considering the number of distortions regarding other people's ideas that she introduces. lol, gotcha. Makes more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Callers Only Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I think that if the forum mods bothered to google search 'TOR exit nodes IPs' and compare them to our newest crop of 1-10 posts posters a pattern would emerge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Finished this the other week and have to say it's an amazing read. I became fully immersed in the world Clavell created. If it's not 100% accurate then the world-building was so tight I was completely sucked in. I couldn't spot any particular agendas from the author but I'm not an expert so could have missed them. It seemed to me that viewpoints varied quite a lot depending on the actual culture. Occasionally there were parallels in agendas but the ultimate goals were very different. Even the pro-open markets had counter arguments with them in terms of how they'd change cultures and religious control. Has anyone read other installments of the "asian saga"? There seems to be a pretty big jump in time and location so I'm not so certain I'd be interested but if the quality is there I suspect I'd be converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Has anyone read other installments of the "asian saga"? There seems to be a pretty big jump in time and location so I'm not so certain I'd be interested but if the quality is there I suspect I'd be converted. Tai-Pan is just as good and maybe better IMO (though my opinion on which one is superior changes regularly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Tai-Pan is just as good and maybe better IMO (though my opinion on which one is superior changes regularly) That's good enough an endorsement. Think I'll have a break with some other authors before embarking on another of his epics though. One criticism of "shogun" is that it's making the current book I'm reading pale in comparison. A bit like how "the wire" made "breaking bad" appear bad for me when going straight from one to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I thought Tai-pan was good, but not in the same league as Shogun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I thought Tai-Pan was a great read. Not as good as Shogun, no, but still very good in its own right. The only other books of Clavell's that I've read is Gai-Jin which I found...ok. Not great, not bad, pretty entertaining but not anything that stuck with me. It did have a good ending though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I thought Tai-Pan was a great read. Not as good as Shogun, no, but still very good in its own right. The only other books of Clavell's that I've read is Gai-Jin which I found...ok. Not great, not bad, pretty entertaining but not anything that stuck with me. It did have a good ending though. I was sort of hoping Gai-Jin would be good given it's back in Japan but I guess it's a slightly different era and characters. Clavell can't really play the "first contact" card again too, I expect. Is the TV miniseries of "shogun" any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I was sort of hoping Gai-Jin would be good given it's back in Japan but I guess it's a slightly different era and characters. Clavell can't really play the "first contact" card again too, I expect. Is the TV miniseries of "shogun" any good?I thought so at the time (25 years ago). But, I haven't watched it since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Tai pan and Noble House are both excellent. I think I may actually like Noble House better. I found Gai Jin disappointing. Kind of like the way prologue books written later feel a bit like a retcon disappointing. I also enjoyed King Rat but it is very different than the other books. It's a POW story. But if you like Cool Hand Luke you'll love it.ETA: there are two Shogun miniseries. The one from the 80s is pretty decent. Don't bother with the other one.ETA2: must read Tai Pan before either Noble House or Gai Jin. They are related books and Tai Pan should be read first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Seems like the other books are worth checking out - good to know but I'll check my expectations before starting Gai-jin. I find it impressive how after being a POW himself, his attitude towards Japanese culture is somewhat neutral. I guess a way of dealing with such imprisonment is to try and understand why his captors were that way. From Shogun, at least there's a sense of "they are brutal but that's the way they see the world" I had no idea there was anotehr TV version of shogun. Far as i could tell there was the miniseries, a "film" edit of the miniseries and have just discovered that Fox are working on a remake. Shudder. At least they are also going for a miniseries meaning it won't be cancelled mid-story, Could still be awful though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I had no idea there was anotehr TV version of shogun. Far as i could tell there was the miniseries, a "film" edit of the miniseries and have just discovered that Fox are working on a remake. Shudder. At least they are also going for a miniseries meaning it won't be cancelled mid-story, Could still be awful though. sorry you are right. I mean the film edit but confused myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 sorry you are right. I mean the film edit but confused myself. I suspected it may have been a mess condensing 9 hours into 2 though! I noticed the DVD collection has a variety of subtitle options. Apparently the original had no subtitles for the Japanese dialogue? I assume that's only in the scenes where Blackthorne is present and doesn't understand? Otherwise I can see why people would want subtitles. I like the idea of being "in the dark" when it's his POV though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidrun Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I was sort of hoping Gai-Jin would be good given it's back in Japan but I guess it's a slightly different era and characters. Clavell can't really play the "first contact" card again too, I expect. Is the TV miniseries of "shogun" any good? I thought Gai-jin was OK. I wasn't as drawn to any of the characters as I was in Shogun. The miniseries is pretty good. A lot is chopped out for time constraints and some stuff is simplified. Most of the casting is pretty good. John Rhys Davies as Portuguese Pilot Rodriguez is amazing. Richard Chamberlain as Blackthorne is does a fine job, although I always pictured Blackthorne as Kiefer Sutherland in my mind (probably because they're both blond, blue eyed and 6'2") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedGhost Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 If you do a google search for "Learning from Shogun", you will find a PDF file that is used to compare and contrast the characters in the book to their real life counterparts. Just don't read it before you finish the book, as some fates are the same in fiction and reality. Thank you for that :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 The Jardine-Mathesons play a large role early on in a history I'll finish later tonight, The Opium War: Drugs, Dreams and the Making of Modern China (2014) by Julia Lovell. They are cited as the model for the Struans' company on the site, Facts Behind Fiction - Gai Jin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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