Small questions v.10004

[FittleLinger]

The dead things in the water reminded me quite viscerally of the dead bodies submerged in the cave in Harry Potter & the Half Blood Prince. They were dead things, waiting to be animated by an external force (magic, Voldemort, Others)

I don't often find HP- ASoIaF parallels, but this one was quite strong (IMO)

I'm not an HP guy, but what do you think that means? That they were dead dead when Cotter saw them, but will eventually be raised by the Others?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I'm not an HP guy, but what do you think that means? That they were dead dead when Cotter saw them, but will eventually be raised by the Others?

Probably that they are dead dead, the result of some horrific slaughter, but with the potential to be raised into an horrific army that emerges from the water at the backs of an army that is engaged with an enemy on the shore. This was the essence of the HP scene- his focus was engaged elsewhere (forward) when the undead rose behind him. Ugh ugh ugh!

[FittleLinger]

Probably that they are dead dead, the result of some horrific slaughter, but with the potential to be raised into an horrific army that emerges from the water at the backs of an army that is engaged with an enemy on the shore. This was the essence of the HP scene- his focus was engaged elsewhere (forward) when the undead rose behind him. Ugh ugh ugh!

The fish will eat them, and then the Others will raise the fish. We also have an un-fish precedent with Cat...

In all seriousness, I too think they are dead dead. There is also a possibility they will be raised of course, as is every dead thing beyond the Wall, but I think Pyke's report is about normally dead bodies.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

The fish will eat them, and then the Others will raise the fish. We also have an un-fish precedent with Cat...

In all seriousness, I too think they are dead dead. There is also a possibility they will be raised of course, as is every dead thing beyond the Wall, but I think Pyke's report is about normally dead bodies.

Agreed. Creepy, but not necessarily a threat.

[FittleLinger]

Another question I had a while ago and I didn't think anyone answered - are we positive that Mandon Moore was acting under Cersei's orders when he tried to kill Tyrion?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Another question I had a while ago and I didn't think anyone answered - are we positive that Mandon Moore was acting under Cersei's orders when he tried to kill Tyrion?

No I don't think so because I've nurtured a semi crackpot that he was working for LF (the Vale connection) and was very surprised last week in the show when Varys was so explicit about it being Cersei. IMO, the books are much more circumspect and open for interpretation.

[FittleLinger]

No I don't think so because I've nurtured a semi crackpot that he was working for LF (the Vale connection) and was very surprised last week in the show when Varys was so explicit about it being Cersei. IMO, the books are much more circumspect and open for interpretation.

Even if Varys was so explicit in the books, everything he says can be taken with a pinch of salt, so... Anyway, so should I understand that Cercei never thinks of this in her POV's? And also, to what ends did LF want Tyrion dead at this point?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Even if Varys was so explicit in the books, everything he says can be taken with a pinch of salt, so... Anyway, so should I understand that Cercei never thinks of this in her POV's? And also, to what ends did LF want Tyrion dead at this point?

I don't believe Cersei ever thinks of killing Tyrion in her own POV until after the Purple Wedding. LF sees Tyrion as a threat. First, Tyrion plays him for a fool in the matter of Myrcella's betrothal. Then Tyrion tells him that he knows the truth behind Jon Arryn's death. Since Tyrion has been in the Vale, I think it's reasonable to think LF may be nervous about knowledge he could have acquired there. LF is basically a mystery wrapped in an enigma, so who knows what other inscrutable motivations he may have had ;)

Eta- much more in depth discussion here:

[FittleLinger]

I don't believe Cersei ever thinks of killing Tyrion in her own POV until after the Purple Wedding. LF sees Tyrion as a threat. First, Tyrion plays him for a fool in the matter of Myrcella's betrothal. Then Tyrion tells him that he knows the truth behind Jon Arryn's death. Since Tyrion has been in the Vale, I think it's reasonable to think LF may be nervous about knowledge he could have acquired there. LF is basically a mystery wrapped in an enigma, so who knows what other inscrutable motivations he may have had ;)

Eta- much more in depth discussion here:

http://asoiaf.wester...__fromsearch__1

Being afraid of a reveal regarding Arryn's death does make sense, thanks ;) He doesn't want a man with such knowledge to be hand of the king, as Tyrion is hand at the time. I won't be surprised if it's him.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

The fish will eat them, and then the Others will raise the fish.

Aaaand it goes up the food chain until we have UNDEAD KRAKENS!

[FittleLinger]

Aaaand it goes up the food chain until we have UNDEAD KRAKENS!

That's too cool and Martin won't allow it. I mean it's a bit too much, a Darth Vader riding a T-Rex kind of cool.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

That's too cool and Martin won't allow it. I mean it's a bit too much, a Darth Vader riding a T-Rex kind of cool.

*sigh* A man can dream.

[not in the face]

How tall is Sophie Turner? She looks at least 6 feet.

[Lady Lea]

Aaaand it goes up the food chain until we have UNDEAD KRAKENS!

I think that undead krakens are far less absurd than Bloodraven turning into a tree. So there's that.

The dead things in the water reminded me quite viscerally of the dead bodies submerged in the cave in Harry Potter & the Half Blood Prince. They were dead things, waiting to be animated by an external force (magic, Voldemort, Others)

That's what I was reminded of as well. BUT if it were only "dead bodies" I think he would say "dead bodies" as opposed to "dead things" which he used to describe the wights in the woods. So I think that there is some activity by those dead "things", even if they are just hanging around the shore or where the water's shallower and not actually swimming.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I think that undead krakens are far less absurd than Bloodraven turning into a tree. So there's that.

That's what I was reminded of as well. BUT if it were only "dead bodies" I think he would say "dead bodies" as opposed to "dead things" which he used to describe the wights in the woods. So I think that there is some activity by those dead "things", even if they are just hanging around the shore or where the water's shallower and not actually swimming.

Back to undead kraken- maybe by "things" he meant more than just dead people?

The visual of dead humans, fish and who knows what else floating on the tide is just too creepy to contemplate :o

[FittleLinger]

I think that undead krakens are far less absurd than Bloodraven turning into a tree. So there's that.

That's what I was reminded of as well. BUT if it were only "dead bodies" I think he would say "dead bodies" as opposed to "dead things" which he used to describe the wights in the woods. So I think that there is some activity by those dead "things", even if they are just hanging around the shore or where the water's shallower and not actually swimming.

Back to undead kraken- maybe by "things" he meant more than just dead people?

The visual of dead humans, fish and who knows what else floating on the tide is just too creepy to contemplate :o

I thought so, too. That it's things and not bodies because there are dead animals as well as humans. Did he really call the wights dead things before?

[Firespir]

So i've got these 2 questions bothering me ever since i read Feast.

1) Does anyone anywhere have any info or ideas or theories about Taena's first lover - the guy with the eyepatch and the scar? Does he remind you of someone ?

2) Do we have any information whether the Lannister troops that were supposed to be sent with the Kettleblack to the Wall to kill John Snow were actually sent? I always believed that since Cersei got imprisoned the whole plot was ruined, but as i just went through the whole scene where Qyburn first suggests it , it struck me how much the events that Cersei describes resemble the end of Dance. Did i maybe miss a part of the book which clarifies this?

[RumHam]

2) Do we have any information whether the Lannister troops that were supposed to be sent with the Kettleblack to the Wall to kill John Snow were actually sent? I always believed that since Cersei got imprisoned the whole plot was ruined, but as i just went through the whole scene where Qyburn first suggests it , it struck me how much the events that Cersei describes resemble the end of Dance. Did i maybe miss a part of the book which clarifies this?

I don't think they were ever sent. We know the kettleblacks weren't sent, and it no one at the wall ever mentioned any influx of non-wildling troops. I think the people involved in Jon's assassination (attempt?) were just Night's Watch members who had a legit beef with their lord commander leading a personal mission south of the wall. Among other things.

[Targaryen_Rubies]

Is it ever known/hinted at what happened to the original crown of the Starks that Torrhen gave to Aegon during the conquest? (In the novellas)

Thanks to those who answer.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Another question I had a while ago and I didn't think anyone answered - are we positive that Mandon Moore was acting under Cersei's orders when he tried to kill Tyrion?

Even though the GoT went the other way, I always believed that it was LF. Moore ddn't seem like a true Lannister man, and Cersei would not have thought that far ahead to think that Tyrrion would put him self in that postion.

2) Do we have any information whether the Lannister troops that were supposed to be sent with the Kettleblack to the Wall to kill John Snow were actually sent? I always believed that since Cersei got imprisoned the whole plot was ruined, but as i just went through the whole scene where Qyburn first suggests it , it struck me how much the events that Cersei describes resemble the end of Dance. Did i maybe miss a part of the book which clarifies this?

Like others said I am pretty sure it either never got started, or they have not made it to the Wall as of the aDwD. We don't here of any "new" men getting to the Wall. I would even go as far as say that with the NW asking for men, that any group of men were to reach the Wall, Jon would have 1. spoke about it. 2. At least greated them. 3. have assigned some to teach them (if he did not do it himself)