[TV/Book Spoilers] TWOP Unsullied Thread Part 3

[Independent George]

Yeah.

Jon=Luke

Dany=Leia

Off-topic, I know, but I'm absolutely certain that Luke & Leia made the beast with two backs immediately after 'A New Hope'? So in my mind, Jaime = Luke, Cersei = Leia.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Ha, yes, getting back to the thread topic. They're talking about the gender of the dragons (and if they can provide offspring). Aren't the dragons in this show changing their sex? I always thought that was a cool spin on dragons and also something that can be found in nature as well. Unfortunately for our unsullied, it takes too long for the show to produce other offspring. Also, 3 dragons are enough, I'd say ;) They also still seem to be thinking of the dragons as war machines and not as we on here often do in the context of the "3 heads of the dragon" prophecy (understandably as they don't know about it ;))

[iheartseverus]

Ha, yes, getting back to the thread topic. They're talking about the gender of the dragons (and if they can provide offspring). Aren't the dragons in this show changing their sex? I always thought that was a cool spin on dragons and also something that can be found in nature as well. Unfortunately for our unsullied, it takes too long for the show to produce other offspring. Also, 3 dragons are enough, I'd say ;) They also still seem to be thinking of the dragons as war machines and not as we on here often do in the context of the "3 heads of the dragon" prophecy (understandably as they don't know about it ;))

Good points. Can't wait til Tyrion gets there, eventually... He knows all sorts of bookish history about the care and feeding of dragons. And, might we hear some of the '3 heads' prophecy from Barristan? Happiest day of my ASOIAF life when that man showed up at Dany's side.

[ebevan91]

Now they know Robert/Stannis/Renly are related to Dany.

Then there's this...

I'm telling you, that contortionist hopefully served some greater plot point, because otherwise that was a lot of time spent on the apparently elaborate deflowering of Podrick.

I'm being at least half-serious, that was a lot of screentime to devote to what seemingly ended up being a joke "Tell us everything". Two full scenes, one of them not short at all, I can't for the life of me figure out how that particular exchange might have weight within the story, but I have a difficult time believing that so much screentime was devoted to a setup of a joke about Podrick's prowess.

So as much as it pains me to say, it seems as if there had to be more to that. At least I fervently hope there was something key happening there, although I can't even begin to guess what it could be. I don't even mean something key with She-Bends-Alarmingly, but I hope Bronn and Tyrion discover some story altering plot point from the prostitutes refusal to take payment.

Otherwise, that was a truly bizarre amount of screentime spent introducing those women. Maybe they were just going for thrills, but hopefully there's more to it. Not, mind you, if we have to spend more time watching that young woman bend in ways that hurt to behold.

It would just seem like a time waster and this show isn't generally prone to a great deal of that.

It's kinda sad that they don't know this stuff is completely made up and is pretty much irrelevant to the plot. Like if they ever read the books, they'd be so confused because so many book-only characters would pop up, and the show-only scenes would be non-existent.

[FaizImam]

Can we excuse it as being character development for Pod, who we know will be a major-ish character in the following seasons? Or is that scene simply a total waste?

[ebevan91]

Maybe Pod will be like "Yo Brienne I wanna go find Tyrion cause he got me laid", and maybe he'll think Tyrion is with Sansa since they're married, because Brienne will be looking for Sansa.

[iheartseverus]

Maybe Pod will be like "Yo Brienne I wanna go find Tyrion cause he got me laid", and maybe he'll think Tyrion is with Sansa since they're married, because Brienne will be looking for Sansa.

Even so, the whole lengthy set-up and follow thru really clunked with the Unsullied, as it did with many of us. Soooo much time spent getting Pod laid-- and smirking about it afterwards. Clunk. They are 'television without pity' after all--spare the snark, spoil the networks. This is the first time I've seen real disdain and real disappointment about the show, from them. And, I agree with them! It... clunked. Waste of time.

So as much as it pains me to say, it seems as if there had to be more to that. At least I fervently hope there was something key happening there, although I can't even begin to guess what it could be. I don't even mean something key with She-Bends-Alarmingly, but I hope Bronn and Tyrion discover some story altering plot point from the prostitutes refusal to take payment.

Otherwise, that was a truly bizarre amount of screentime spent introducing those women. Maybe they were just going for thrills, but hopefully there's more to it. Not, mind you, if we have to spend more time watching that young woman bend in ways that hurt to behold.

It would just seem like a time waster and this show isn't generally prone to a great deal of that.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Can we excuse it as being character development for Pod, who we know will be a major-ish character in the following seasons? Or is that scene simply a total waste?

I think it's safe to say a total waste. Pod is hardly even a major-ish character--I can probably name at least 20 more important characters in the tv show alone--and nothing was developed about his character other than being some sort of sex god or lame crap like that.

[ebevan91]

I think all of that stuff could've been used for more Bran/Reeds stuff. Or possibly Davos stuff.

We've only had 2 Davos scenes and 2 Bran scenes as well.

[Words of Winter]

Am I the only one that can't wait for this extravagant wedding between Joffrey and Maergery? I hope there's some drama. Cersei will be drunk beyond words.

No we are all waiting for the wedding, but not for the extravagance! :devil:

I hope there's some drama.

I would say, just a smidgen of drama. :eek:

Cersei will be drunk beyond words.

Well, I couldn't say drunk with words, but a certain emotion. :crying:

It seems the single biggest speculation this season is when is the PW since we know what happens then. I hope it is next season, because that would be an awesome season 4, ep 4.

[Words of Winter]

I think after I watched Season 2, I had a speculation (and I may have posted it?) that I thought Dany would use her dragons to somehow save an oppressed people and win more people to her cause. I had forgotten about it. but maybe that's where they're going in Astapor, perhaps she not only makes off with Unsullied, but frees ALL the slaves and perhaps gains them as foot soldiers in her army that are willing to "die for her because they loved her" like Rhaegar. Thus following both Jorah AND Selmy's advice, at the same time. I could see Missandei being a real cheerleader/PR person for that - "the MOther of Dragons freed me! And she frees you, too! Let us all follow her!" yada yada.

Pretty much on the money. Either this poster is feigning ignorance or is very intuitive.

[Words of Winter]

By the way, I listened again to the "Bear and the Maiden Fair" and suddenly figured out why the Bolton men were singing it earlier. They were mocking Brienne (and Jaime, but mainly Brienne).

The song is all about a maiden "pure and fair" with golden hair, dancing with a dirty bear.

I thought they were just singing to, well, sing and introduce the unsullied to a reoccurring song. But this makes much more sense. I like it. Wait till they see the bear fighting the maiden Brienne.

[iheartseverus]

Pretty much on the money. Either this poster is feigning ignorance or is very intuitive.

I think, and I speak for myself, its difficult for us to see the show from a non-reader's perspective. We know.. stuff. Lotsa stuff. So when we see a non-book reader speculate, accurately, about something it can seem... staged. But, these are in no way at all 'casual' viewers, these folks are the perfect 'focus group' of any ad campaign, they dissect every nuance, every hint, every conceivable possible way forward. And some obvious 'ways forward' are obvious. Like 'Drakarys' for the Unsullied slave master, and the further freeing of Astopor's other slaves. Its where Dany's been heading for a long time now. Its... logical.

[iheartseverus]

I thought they were just singing to, well, sing and introduce the unsullied to a reoccurring song. But this makes much more sense. I like it. Wait till they see the bear fighting the maiden Brienne.

There's more to that song than the maiden with golden hair, alas. Its a crude soldier's song about how the maiden fair struggled and fought until the bear 'licked the honey off her hair'. And that honey and hair were not on her head. After that, she was all thrilled with it. Blargh...

:thumbsdown:

[The Anti-Targ]

Good points. Can't wait til Tyrion gets there, eventually... He knows all sorts of bookish history about the care and feeding of dragons. And, might we hear some of the '3 heads' prophecy from Barristan? Happiest day of my ASOIAF life when that man showed up at Dany's side.

Tyrion and Hagrid would get on well.

There's more to that song than the maiden with golden hair, alas. Its a crude soldier's song about how the maiden fair struggled and fought until the bear 'licked the honey off her hair'. And that honey and hair were not on her head. After that, she was all thrilled with it. Blargh...

Armpits?

And of course now I've clicked why Walder Frey tells Cat that his new wife's "honey is all mine."

[iheartseverus]

Tyrion and Hagrid would get on well.

Indeed. Clever you.

Armpits?

And of course now I've clicked why Walder Frey tells Cat that his new wife's "honey is all mine."

Gotta be. Armpit honey. Yumms... :P

[Words of Winter]

There's more to that song than the maiden with golden hair, alas. Its a crude soldier's song about how the maiden fair struggled and fought until the bear 'licked the honey off her hair'. And that honey and hair were not on her head. After that, she was all thrilled with it. Blargh...

:thumbsdown:

I never really paid attention to the words. I usually skip the background songs in the book to get to the story. Yeah, I now agree with the :thumbsdown:

[sagaz]

I always tought that "the bear and the maiden fair" was a relatively new top ten in Westeros telling the story of Jorah Mormont and the wife he "won" in a tourney.

[Abaddon]

I agree with this. The show clearly stated that "Wylla" is a common girl. R: "that common girl of yours. you never told me what she looks like" N:"and I never will"

we, book readers know that there is a Wylla involved in some capacity, Wylla exists and is a common woman...Ned is only distortioning (is this a word?) the truth to Robert. I don't see Ned liying to him.

Ashara Dayne was a highborn woman, a remarkable beauty of her era and a lover of "some Stark".

Catelyn, through gossip and the fact that Ned came home of the war from Dorne, believes that that Stark is Ned.

Last episode, Catelyn told Talisa that she was jealous of a woman she never knew (the mother of Jon)

If the showrunners wanted to install Ashara as a possibility, that was their moment and they choose not to.

They could go with "wylla", is a totally open story, and also with the fisherman daughter (both common women)

Wylla Dayne doesn't make any sense. If your worries come from the creation of "Talisa" I think in some ways, she serves as a device to install the idea of the slavers cities in the east to the TV viewers, giving some background to Dany's quest

You missed my point. I wasn't trying to say anyone would literally "mix" them as in a first and last name combination. Simply that they would condense two unknown mothers (Ashara and Wylla) into one. And that condensing would have no effect on the book, in terms of revealing whether Ashara was really Jon's mother or not in the books. To this point there isn't really anything important distinguishing Ashara from Wylla that the show can't dispense with.

If you're trying to say that the showrunners have chosen to go with Wylla instead of Ashara (which I think is quite likely) I agree. If you're trying to say that the (apparent) fact that they have gone with Wylla instead of Ashara in the show means that it is conclusive that Ashara is not Jon's mother in the books, I completely disagree, and that was my earlier point. I don't think it means anything of the sort.

All of that said it's completely obvious that Lyanna is Jon's mother, barring some crazy bait and switch on Martin's part, so this is a bit of an exercise in futility.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

I never thought about the Bair and the Maiden Fair being about rape. I guess that's one point where our modern sensibilities creep in. As I see it, the Bear "convinces" the Maiden by giving her oral sex. It's not rape (in the context of the quasi-medieval world) since the 'macho' guy persuades the girl by being consistent which was totally normal and we would sometimes now see as sexual harrassment? When do you as a suitor have to accept a 'no' and when are you supposed to try again til she says yes. I know one now long-time couple that started just as that and it's really hard to find the border between the two. (Though, sexual harrasment is more often about power than about sex, many terms we would accept if they are spoken between persons on the same power level [=no boss and secretary...]).

But I'm REALLY off topic now, so:

What do you think of their take of the Unsullied as mindless soldiers? I fear that the show has not gotten the message completely right to the viewers if the other unsullied fear they are like clones or robots. It's unfortunate that the show had to cut their introduction a bit when they left away the murdered dog puppies in the first year, the mention of the general use as household guards and so on. But hopefully those things are still to come as well as the Missandei's Brother who I hope exists in the show as well...

Regarding the Pod scene, I found that one worked really well as a) characterization (yes, it's important that they flesh out Pod a bit more), B) a bit of a break when the talk was about money and finances (yes, that's still important for the show, otherwise, you could read the books where the graphic descriptions rather put people off, see the Myrish Swamp f.e.), c) a bit of a break between the endless Walk&Talks, the show needs those scenes, see also the Musical Chairs. And show spoiler...

Didn't the three actors (or was it just the contortionist) tweet that she will be in two episodes this season, so there will be a follow-up of some sort.

And because that was off-topic again: Did the show mention Selyse Baratheon and Shireen so far? I'm really curious now ;)