[TV/Book Spoilers] TWOP Unsullied Thread Part 3

[iheartseverus]

Also, I don't think the TWoP Unsullied really mentioned the whole scene with Talisa and the Lannister boys, where Talisa was saying he could turn into a wolf.

Early days, early days. So far, that Talisa scene just looked like an adult gently scaring/exciting a couple of boys with tales of werewolves. IMO, the showrunners will add a few more hints in coming episodes, giving the TWoP Unsullied a bit more to work with.

[go joff go]

I too am pretty surprised that noone has really making the connection b/t Robb and warging. There have been alot of hints both in the who is the best fighter battle scene last year as well as sending his wolf after Jaimie in the cage

[The Anti-Targ]

But, that's exactly what they are... what they are allowed to be... at this point. It's not until Dany frees them and starts giving them choices about what to do that they are allowed to be anything but mindless soldiers. I do hope they keep some of that development as it is really poignant at times. If they cut that stuff then I will join you in being disappointed.

No, that's a wrong characterisation of the most expensive fighting slaves. Unsullied don;t have all thinking and intelligence trained out of them. The parts of their humanity that are removed are: fear and disobedience. Missandei says all questions have been removed from them, not all ability to think, especially not all ability to think about how to approach a battle.

The owner of an Unsullied force can simply tell his/her army to "sack that city". And they will go off and do it. The owner doesn't have to tell them to first set up seige machines here, here and here, then go grab some seige ladders, and look there, that's the weakpoint in the city's defences, and take these boats and cross the river to attack from that side as well as this side etc etc. Unsullied are totally obedient, they are not stupid.

If you tell an unsullied group to form a human wall, but to not attack or fight back, then they will do it and die to a man without rasing their weapons. But if you tell those Unsullied to "defend this area" they don't need to be told how to defend it.

[The Anti-Targ]

Well Lancel Lannister said Robb could transform into a wolf, because the escaped soldiers fromt he whispering wood came back with tall tales. So far, in the TV show, the only werewolfie stuff circulating about Robb is of the tall tale variety and there's no evidence of any generalised warging ability among the Stark brood. We know Bran has warging ability. We have strong anecdotal evidence for Rickon having seer ability, but Rickon's never mentioned being inside Shaggydog's head (IIRC) - actually even in the book there's never any mention of Rickon or Sansa having had any warging talent, can't recall whether Robb mentioned wargy experiences or not. We know for sure Arya, Jon and Bran have it, the show has only shown it in Bran to date.

[The Anti-Targ]

You missed my point. I wasn't trying to say anyone would literally "mix" them as in a first and last name combination. Simply that they would condense two unknown mothers (Ashara and Wylla) into one. And that condensing would have no effect on the book, in terms of revealing whether Ashara was really Jon's mother or not in the books. To this point there isn't really anything important distinguishing Ashara from Wylla that the show can't dispense with.

If you're trying to say that the showrunners have chosen to go with Wylla instead of Ashara (which I think is quite likely) I agree. If you're trying to say that the (apparent) fact that they have gone with Wylla instead of Ashara in the show means that it is conclusive that Ashara is not Jon's mother in the books, I completely disagree, and that was my earlier point. I don't think it means anything of the sort.

All of that said it's completely obvious that Lyanna is Jon's mother, barring some crazy bait and switch on Martin's part, so this is a bit of an exercise in futility.

No, if the show collapses the not-Lyanna options down to Wylla, and we assume D&D plan to adapt all the books (including those yet to be published), then we can definitely conclude with near certainty that Ashara is not the mother in the books. I don't believe for a second that the TV show would change who Jon's mother is, and GRRM has said we will know who Jon's mother is before the story ends. The only thing the show might do is never reveal who Jon's mother is, but they could only do that if Jon's parentage is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

There's a chance Jon's parentage is inconsequential (which I personally rate at about 1%), and to that end I rate about a 1% chance that the show won't reveal Jon's parentage. But that means I'm 99% sure that Jon's parentage is important to the story, and that if Ashara is left out of the show it means there's a 99% certainty that Ashara is not Jon's mother.

I am convinced that the WW are not evil or that they were not evil at first but part of the world. Necessary for some short of balance.

Holy hell, how did this heresy make it across to the TWoP Unsullied?

[VitaBrevis]

A result of their climate change and Rubic's Cube specs.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

... actually even in the book there's never any mention of Rickon or Sansa having had any warging talent, can't recall whether Robb mentioned wargy experiences or not. We know for sure Arya, Jon and Bran have it, the show has only shown it in Bran to date.

There is, for Rickon it's just an extension and comparison to how Summer and Shaggydog act. If we believe that the "seer" ability is one step further" than simple wolf warging, then the picture becomes quite clear in addition with the fact that all other childrens are wargs. For Sansa, she builds up a connection to that old dog (who we know are the easiest to warg from the Varamyr prologue) who then wakes up and creates an alarm when Marillion tries to rape her. She's the weakest of the wargs, but she does have it.

And I don't think it's necessary to force the issue in the show (when you can't dedicate lots of time to it anyways).

How did they jump to Grejyoy's warging krakens though? That seems like a large step, as the direwolves are a fantasy creature, kraken's aren't. I'd like to see one though (in the books as in the show). I wonder how long it will take til someone asks whether that means Lannisters can warg lions, the Tullys trouts and the Tyrells Roses (that must be boring... ;)).

They do seem to think that Kraznys is too one note at the moment, wonder how they will react when the turns out to actually be so one note...

[Arkash]

They did mention that warging must be a Northern thing because warging Roses mustnt go anywhere ! ^^

[Nezzer]

Now they are discussing the Lannister squires Edmure captured. I wonder how long they will take before linking them to Karstark's thirst for vengeance. I like it how the show is probably going to make Lord Karstark much more unlikeable than in the books. I was afraid that he was making too much sense and people would dislike Robb for executing him, but it seems Karstark will look the villain, and in that case I think Robb's popularity will remain unbesmirched.

[iheartseverus]

in that case I think Robb's popularity will remain unbesmirched.

:owned:

[Joyful Union]

How did they jump to Grejyoy's warging krakens though? That seems like a large step, as the direwolves are a fantasy creature, kraken's aren't. I'd like to see one though (in the books as in the show). I wonder how long it will take til someone asks whether that means Lannisters can warg lions, the Tullys trouts and the Tyrells Roses (that must be boring... ;)).

Kraken's are fantasy creatures, there arent any squids near that size in the ocean. A norse legend I believe.

I think that a Kraken pulling a ship under would be a great opening to a season, or WoW. Maybe a Saladhor San Prologue?

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

okay, sorry to me non-native English speaker they seem the same ;) It doesn't change much though ;)

Regarding the unsullied, WHY did they have Robb state the age of the Lannister boys as 14? A younger age would work better and they visually and with regards to the writing chose to go that route anyways?

I love how they try to set up various character arcs for the boys only to have to see them die next episode. Well, love is the wrong word since its a horrible act, but you get what I'm getting at hopefully ;) Now don't let anyone tell you Game of Thrones can't be surprising... (even if they already decoded the Dracarys stuff and the Mutiny at Crasters f.e.)

[Sasha Steelsong]

Now they are discussing the Lannister squires Edmure captured. I wonder how long they will take before linking them to Karstark's thirst for vengeance. I like it how the show is probably going to make Lord Karstark much more unlikeable than in the books. I was afraid that he was making too much sense and people would dislike Robb for executing him, but it seems Karstark will look the villain, and in that case I think Robb's popularity will remain unbesmirched.

I agree. Especially because the two Lannisters are SO young and very clearly children - I know they are young in the book too but seeing them so young and having them not even be involved in getting Karstark's sons killed (I do believe in the book they were part of those captured at the Whispering Wood with Jaime but I could be wrong) will make him much more of a villian and Robb's beheading of him more reasonable. Granted I thought it was totally reasonable in the book but this will highlight it differently.

[MyLittleDirewolf]

Has the show really never stated Grey Wind's name? I noticed in the character list on TWOP that there's a blank where the name of Robb's direwolf should be.

[iheartseverus]

Has the show really never stated Grey Wind's name? I noticed in the character list on TWOP that there's a blank where the name of Robb's direwolf should be.

Nope, they never have. And Summer was unnamed all this time, too, until last week when Jojen used his name.

[protar]

I was looking at that character list and unless they've just forgotten to update it, apparently The Hound's name hasn't been mentioned yet! That can't be surely.

[Sasha Steelsong]

Have the dragons been named? I don't think they have but hadn't thought about it till my husband mentioned it last week?

[The Anti-Targ]

Now they are discussing the Lannister squires Edmure captured. I wonder how long they will take before linking them to Karstark's thirst for vengeance. I like it how the show is probably going to make Lord Karstark much more unlikeable than in the books. I was afraid that he was making too much sense and people would dislike Robb for executing him, but it seems Karstark will look the villain, and in that case I think Robb's popularity will remain unbesmirched.

I agree. Especially because the two Lannisters are SO young and very clearly children - I know they are young in the book too but seeing them so young and having them not even be involved in getting Karstark's sons killed (I do believe in the book they were part of those captured at the Whispering Wood with Jaime but I could be wrong) will make him much more of a villian and Robb's beheading of him more reasonable. Granted I thought it was totally reasonable in the book but this will highlight it differently.

Who the hell thinks Karstark is not a horrible villain among Robbs bannermen worsted only* by Roose Bolton himself?

*Walder Frey is not a Stark bannerman, he's a villan, obviously, but as he's sworn to Riverrun he's in a slightly different category. Walder Frey was probably disinclined to swear fealty to Robb, and probably only felt any sense of obligation while the marriage pact was intact. Once that was broken there's no particualr reason why Frey should stay loyal to Robb and not go back to Joff. The Unsullied certainly think Robb's got his death coming to him. Though they will not be terribly pleased about the manner of his death.

Interesting that guest rights hasn't been mentioned as a thing up to now. And in reality it's really the betrayal of that ancient tradition that's the unconscionable thing about what Frety does. So I wonder if the show will introduce the guest rights thing in the next episode or 2.

[iheartseverus]

Have the dragons been named? I don't think they have but hadn't thought about it till my husband mentioned it last week?

I was looking at that character list and unless they've just forgotten to update it, apparently The Hound's name hasn't been mentioned yet! That can't be surely.

Nope, No 'Sandor' and no dragons named on the show yet, except for Drogon, although that will be remedied this season.

I wonder if the show will introduce the guest rights thing in the next episode or 2.

Or, Catlyn can mention it as they're filing into the Twins for the wedding. Something like 'Now, don't forget the ancient guest right, everyone take some bread and salt as soon as we are seated, because I don't trust Walder Frey... '

[Abaddon]

No, that's a wrong characterisation of the most expensive fighting slaves. Unsullied don;t have all thinking and intelligence trained out of them. The parts of their humanity that are removed are: fear and disobedience. Missandei says all questions have been removed from them, not all ability to think, especially not all ability to think about how to approach a battle.

The owner of an Unsullied force can simply tell his/her army to "sack that city". And they will go off and do it. The owner doesn't have to tell them to first set up seige machines here, here and here, then go grab some seige ladders, and look there, that's the weakpoint in the city's defences, and take these boats and cross the river to attack from that side as well as this side etc etc. Unsullied are totally obedient, they are not stupid.

If you tell an unsullied group to form a human wall, but to not attack or fight back, then they will do it and die to a man without rasing their weapons. But if you tell those Unsullied to "defend this area" they don't need to be told how to defend it.

Sorry, to be clear, I should have said something like "robots" as I didn't mean they were stupid. "Mindless" was a bad choice of words. They are trained to have no emotions, no names that are permanent (no personality), and to follow orders without question. Very capable robots.