Vulture interview hints at "controversial" Sansa chapter in TWoW

[jons nissa]

Being more on board with the poisoning of SR could be very likely. Even if it is an almost unintentional way where she buys into "helping" him. Certainly she doesn't trust anyone any more, so she maybe will start to be more ruthless in her own self preservation.

i agree, there are strong indicators about this. when she's told by the maester that sweet robin shouldn't get anymore sweetmilk she says "take it up with lord baelish" rather than agreeing with him. she also mentions several times she wished baelish were around to help with things so while i don't think she trusts littlefinger, she does seem to be depending on him a great deal though i suppose there is no one else around to help with things.

[gougef]

Something that would really piss me off, is that she does something like she did to get her father killed, proving that she has learned nothing.

[1234567]

Something that would really piss me off, is that she does something like she did to get her father killed, proving that she has learned nothing.

Small point, but she didn't get her father killed, she got herself and nearly Arya trapped in KL. LF's betrayal with the gold cloaks and Ned telling Cersei he knew about the incest got Ned killed. Sansa asking Cersei to stay played a part, but it was a tiny one in comparison to LF and Ned.

[White Rabbit]

I'm a little bit confused. This supposedly controversial chapter is the same one that Sansa's fans will enjoy? Or not? :huh:

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Small point, but she didn't get her father killed, she got herself and nearly Arya trapped in KL. LF's betrayal with the gold cloaks and Ned telling Cersei he knew about the incest got Ned killed. Sansa asking Cersei to stay played a part, but it was a tiny one in comparison to LF and Ned.

Three cheers for you for being so honest about the situation. Many posts I've seen on the forum are not so forth coming about the facts of the situation.

:cheers:

I'm a little bit confused. This supposedly controversial chapter is the same one that Sansa's fans will enjoy? Or not? :huh:

That's the thing. No one really knows what is in the chapter or what part of the fandom might feel it's sting the most, if any such distinction might be made.

[Newstar]

I'm a little bit confused. This supposedly controversial chapter is the same one that Sansa's fans will enjoy? Or not?

No one knows *cue creepy music*, well, no one except Ran, GRRM, and his editor, I guess.

It could be that the thing that makes Sansa fans happy is the same thing that's going to cause controversy in some quarters of the fandom (...sounds like SanSan stuff to me, although not all Sansa fans ship SanSan).

What seems more likely is that things seem to be looking up for Sansa (the chapter that makes Sansa fans happy), and then something horrible happens, I suspect done either to Sansa, controversial maybe because it involves sex in some way, or seems unnecessarily cruel to Sansa, or by Sansa, controversial maybe because it involves Sansa doing something unsavoury, immoral or even "evil" (the controversial chapter).

It could happen the other way around, of course: the "controversial" chapter could very well precede the "happy" chapter. But Sansa seems fairly stable and content, even complacent, in her last chapter of AFFC, which is usually when characters get the rug ripped out from under them or are forced into some new, unpleasant set of circumstances. When everything seems to be going smoothly is right about when the knives come out.

[1234567]

<snip>

Good points. I agree.

[DurararaFTW]

Small point, but she didn't get her father killed, she got herself and nearly Arya trapped in KL. LF's betrayal with the gold cloaks and Ned telling Cersei he knew about the incest got Ned killed. Sansa asking Cersei to stay played a part, but it was a tiny one in comparison to LF and Ned.

If we're gonna be really specific, LF, Cersei and Ned's own stupidity got Ned captured, Sansa pleading for Joffrey to show Ned mercy is what ultimately got Ned killed. Cersei might have been able to keep Ned alive otherwise.

[SeanF]

I'm a little bit confused. This supposedly controversial chapter is the same one that Sansa's fans will enjoy? Or not? :huh:

If Sansa kills SR, then it would both be controversial and something that many of Sansa's fans will welcome.

[1234567]

If we're gonna be really specific, LF, Cersei and Ned's own stupidity got Ned captured, Sansa pleading for Joffrey to show Ned mercy is what ultimately got Ned killed. Cersei might have been able to keep Ned alive otherwise.

Eh, no. Joff (almost certainly at the instigation of LF if the hints in the book are accurate) decided to cut Ned's head off. I don't see how Sansa pleading for mercy had anything to do with it.

Cersei had planned to send him to the Wall, she had no idea what Joff was going to do.

[brashcandy]

It could happen the other way around, of course: the "controversial" chapter could very well precede the "happy" chapter. But Sansa seems fairly stable and content, even complacent, in her last chapter of AFFC, which is usually when characters get the rug ripped out from under them or are forced into some new, unpleasant set of circumstances. When everything seems to be going smoothly is right about when the knives come out.

You're right, except she did get the rug pulled out from under her at the very end when she's told of a new marriage she doesn't want and that SR is going to die.

If we're gonna be really specific, LF, Cersei and Ned's own stupidity got Ned captured, Sansa pleading for Joffrey to show Ned mercy is what ultimately got Ned killed. Cersei might have been able to keep Ned alive otherwise.

LOL. I was wondering when this kind of folly would start.

[Shebara]

hello mylords and myladies Westerosi,

my greetings to everybody here, I am a newbie to this forum.

What do you think of it, if it would be the other way? I don t think that our Sansa would be able to kill Sweetrobin....but I do think that Sweetrobin could be able to kill LF if watching that his beloved Sansa, who is like a 2nd mother and the only one who is able to take care of him is threatened by LF??

[White Rabbit]

Newstar & Ser Pounce FTW, thanks for your explanation! :thumbsup:

If I had to guess, I would say that this thing which will make Sansa's fans happy will happen first and then, in one of the next chapters, Martin will bring us back to earth by putting Sansa in a situation where she'll have to a make a controversial decision in order to save her life.

Doing good things is not controversial.

Doing bad things, yeah, it may be controversial.

But I think that the most controversial thing is to do bad things for good reasons.

And if you have a chance to act honurably but, for some reasons, you decide to do something immoral, it's even more controversial.

So, I think that Sansa will temporarily ally herself with Littlefinger in order to save her life and will become his accomplice in crime (maybe she'll help him to get rid of SR).

There will be some who will defend her, even praise her for using her wit but there will be some who will complain that "she didn't act like a true Stark" etc.

It's the most likely scenario, imho.

[Capon Breath]

I need to read AGOT / ACOK in more detail in relation to Sansa chapters but I have a vague and half formed view that the "Song" Sandor gets from Sansa is a whole heap more than a song. He has her on the bed at knife point and he is drunk at the time and he clearly has some attraction / obsession towards her.... Well you can guess what i think might have actually happened. Sansa rationalises it away as a "song" through some kind of Post Traumatic Stress / Stockholm syndrome type effect.

This will be revealed and that will be controversial.

Like i say its half a notion at the moment so would need check the detail before accusing Sandor of something so heinous.

[juanml82]

I need to read AGOT / ACOK in more detail in relation to Sansa chapters but I have a vague and half formed view that the "Song" Sandor gets from Sansa is a whole heap more than a song. He has her on the bed at knife point and he is drunk at the time and he clearly has some attraction / obsession towards her.... Well you can guess what i think might have actually happened. Sansa rationalises it away as a "song" through some kind of Post Traumatic Stress / Stockholm syndrome type effect.

This will be revealed and that will be controversial.

Like i say its half a notion at the moment so would need check the detail before accusing Sandor of something so heinous.

I don't know. Sansa's thoughts about Sandor had he raped her would be about fear instead of desire.

There is a theory going around that Sansa managed to warg him without realizing what she was doing (both were drunk, that might have made it easier) and, by warging him, made him kiss her. Since Sandor was being warged (and drunk), he doesn't remember that.

BTW, is it clear that the kiss didn't happen? Sandor is the one more likely to forget the events of that night, given how drunk he was.

How about this: The maester goes to Bronze Yohn or maybe the Blackfish if he goes to the Vale spilling the beans about Alayne and Littlefinger ordering him to give Robert Arryn too much sweetsleep. Littlefinger is/makes himself unavailable so, on her own initiative, Sansa poisons Bronze Yohn/the Blackfish before they can act on the information and frames the maester.

[Elba the Intoner]

hello mylords and myladies Westerosi,

my greetings to everybody here, I am a newbie to this forum.

What do you think of it, if it would be the other way? I don t think that our Sansa would be able to kill Sweetrobin....but I do think that Sweetrobin could be able to kill LF if watching that his beloved Sansa, who is like a 2nd mother and the only one who is able to take care of him is threatened by LF??

Hello and welcome. I think this could be a possibility, especially given how everyone thinks Sweetrobin is sickly and will die soon and it would be a great way to turn the tables around and have him kill LF. Especially given some of the similarities of Peytyr taking Sansa, and beauutiful daughter of Winterfell, away where no one knows where she is. Though the Bael the Bard story is mostly meant to refer to Jon, there is a parallel with Sansa and Petyr Baelish. The Bael story ends when the son of Bael and the daughter of Winterfell that he kidnapped ends up killing him. Sweetrobin is basically the son of Petyr and Sansa/Alayne at this point so I could see the Bael parallels playing out like this in some way and the son killing the father.

[sabrecmc]

Think of how controversial mercy killings are in real life. It being carried out by a 14 year old girl makes even more so

This was my thought when I read the original post. "Controversial" implies that there are two sides to argue, so the most obvious thing to me seems to be Sansa killing Sweetrobin in a "mercy killing" manner. Like he really spirals downhill and starts having truly terrible seizures beyond what we've seen so far, and she overdoses him on the sweetsleep to end his misery. If she could use that to somehow implicate LF, all the better. That would make it particularly controversial because you couldn't just out and out say her reason was truly mercy for Sweetrobin if there was something in it for her. Could be interesting, actually.

[Joyful Union]

Exactly! It seems to already have been setup too, with her annoyance with his behavior, and his increasingly severe and numerous seizures.

[Shebara]

Hello and welcome. I think this could be a possibility, especially given how everyone thinks Sweetrobin is sickly and will die soon and it would be a great way to turn the tables around and have him kill LF. Especially given some of the similarities of Peytyr taking Sansa, and beauutiful daughter of Winterfell, away where no one knows where she is. Though the Bael the Bard story is mostly meant to refer to Jon, there is a parallel with Sansa and Petyr Baelish. The Bael story ends when the son of Bael and the daughter of Winterfell that he kidnapped ends up killing him. Sweetrobin is basically the son of Petyr and Sansa/Alayne at this point so I could see the Bael parallels playing out like this in some way and the son killing the father.

ahhh thank you Noble, I never realized this Bael/Baelish parallel, this is interesting! In any case even if SR gets on her nerves, I think Sansa really feels responsible for him and I think she would never kill him. And like everyone here I feel that LF will sooner or later want her for a Catelyn substitute...as the GoT TV series show it even more clearly than in the books...so I think someone who sees her as a second mother like SR could well show up at this moment and protect her ...when LF does not expect that at all! I would like that in any case!

[BlackStark]

This was my thought when I read the original post. "Controversial" implies that there are two sides to argue, so the most obvious thing to me seems to be Sansa killing Sweetrobin in a "mercy killing" manner. Like he really spirals downhill and starts having truly terrible seizures beyond what we've seen so far, and she overdoses him on the sweetsleep to end his misery. If she could use that to somehow implicate LF, all the better. That would make it particularly controversial because you couldn't just out and out say her reason was truly mercy for Sweetrobin if there was something in it for her. Could be interesting, actually.

Could the controversy be rather than the mercy killing of Sweet Robin he becomes the falcon that she begins to warg instead of an actual one...given his frail mental and physical state is it possible that the bond they are forming allows her to enter and control his mind, one of the major taboos. Through this act she would surpass Littlefinger by becoming the ultimate puppet master.