[Book Spoilers] Theon and "Boy"

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Heh, my favorite GoT podcast, Cast of Kings, has a book reader and non-book reader. The non-reader went "I think Theon's plot has jumped the shark because it seems like a pointless circle" and talked more. Then, he said "If this psycho turns out to be a major character, ok then, that was good set up" and something to the effect of how impressive a level of villainy it was. He then went back to the circles thing bugging him. His reader co-host was dead silent, then the non-reader goes "Did the Boy's story reek to you?" and I nearly lost it.

That passage was AWESOME. I think they have had a bit of a discussion beforehand that lead to that exchange. The whole

"Did the Boy's story reek to you?"

"Yeah it kind of reeked"

- was some of the funniest stuff I have heard all week,

[Ordos]

I think one plot line they could put in to make Boys story more interesting is not only torturing Theon but also hunting Bran, Rickon, the Reeds and Hodor while they try to evade capture as they make their way to the wall. But this would mean revealing Boys identity a little sooner.

Picture it: Boy goes on a hunt, finds nothing, maybe even have a few of his guys injured or killed trying to capture Bran and Rickon and comes back to the Dreadfort to vent by torturing Theon.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

Does anyone know if Theon ever spoke that line about his real father being Ned in any of the books? I remember thinking that to myself, but I can't recall Theon ever saying/thinking those words exactly.

this scene was one of the ones i liked the best of in the episode. The look in "boys" eyes when they were putting Theon back on the post was classic.

Yeah, Ramsay/Perv Boy had this look on his face.

[Dove]

He doesn't that I know of, the closest he comes to that is realizing that Robb was pretty much his brother.

You could say it's out of character for him (or book Theon or w/e) to say something like that about cold, distant Ned but IDK, I thought it was sadly fitting. Just another person that Theon's latched on to that doesn't regard him in nearly the same way.

[Ramsay Gimp]

The show writers made the decision to make Theon closer to the Starks and therefore more sympathetic, and I think it was a good one. To be fair, I think Theon has the same feelings in the novels (toward Robb) but refuses to acknowledge them until ADWD. In the show, however, he named Robb "brother" and nearly warned him of Balon's plans. This gave his arc a lot more emotional impact and I think was a rare improvement over the source material.

Naming Eddard his "true father" isn't that much of a stretch at this point, either. It's actually the logical result of Robb being his "brother." But it is more of a change from the book than his feelings toward Robb

[MannyAntony]

I have to agree about feeling bad for theon now rather than later, my throat kinda hurt when he said " my real father got beheaded in kings landing".... Alfie is a great Actor.! man great scenes.

[Randyll Tarly]

I think one plot line they could put in to make Boys story more interesting is not only torturing Theon but also hunting Bran, Rickon, the Reeds and Hodor while they try to evade capture as they make their way to the wall. But this would mean revealing Boys identity a little sooner.

Picture it: Boy goes on a hunt, finds nothing, maybe even have a few of his guys injured or killed trying to capture Bran and Rickon and comes back to the Dreadfort to vent by torturing Theon.

That would be a great scene. And just when he just finished flaying Theon he receives a notice of his father asking him to send proof that he holds the Greyjoy kid to Robb Stark before the RW takes place in this season. Although I would also like a second escape happening but with somebody else and he simply following on the tracks and slowly getting Theon paranoid enough to become the meek.

[MannyAntony]

quick question... so now does ramsay know that bran and rickon are alive? he seemed kinda shocked when he heard theon say so

[Ramsay Gimp]

I think one plot line they could put in to make Boys story more interesting is not only torturing Theon but also hunting Bran, Rickon, the Reeds and Hodor while they try to evade capture as they make their way to the wall. But this would mean revealing Boys identity a little sooner.

Picture it: Boy goes on a hunt, finds nothing, maybe even have a few of his guys injured or killed trying to capture Bran and Rickon and comes back to the Dreadfort to vent by torturing Theon.

That would be a great scene. And just when he just finished flaying Theon he receives a notice of his father asking him to send proof that he holds the Greyjoy kid to Robb Stark before the RW takes place in this season. Although I would also like a second escape happening but with somebody else and he simply following on the tracks and slowly getting Theon paranoid enough to become the meek.

I like this idea, except he should bring Theon with him when he goes hunting. It can be part of his "Reek" training, and Theon is the only one at the Dreadfort who could identify Bran and Rickon anyway

[Ramsay Gimp]

quick question... so now does ramsay know that bran and rickon are alive? he seemed kinda shocked when he heard theon say so

Yes. Unlike in the novels, where it is actually Ramsay's idea to "kill" the boys, Ramsay in the show really thought Theon had killed the two Princes when he captured him

[The Night's Prince]

Ramsay makes the Scarecrow look like a 2nd rate birthday party clown.

[MarieAntoinette]

Anyhoo, I am really enjoying the Ramsay scenes so far.

In the books there was a sexual element to the way Ramsay tortured Reek. I wonder if we're going to see any of that in the hbo show.

Personally I hope they don't go too much in this direction. There is already some fanart shipping Ramsay / Reek out there, and I dislike this approach because I think the story of Theon breaking down physically and mentally and becoming Reek is so horrible. I feel that if there are too many hints that point to a twisted sexual relationship the tragic story of Theon's transformation might not come across as it should. I really don't want this to turn into a "Let's watch how sexy half-naked Theon gets tortured on the cross" kind of thing.

Anyhow, I think that the actor playing Ramsay was really creepy in some of his scenes in episode 4. He probably is a good choice to play Ramsay after all despite not looking like I imagined Ramsey from reading the books. TV Theon is more likeable than book Theon so far, in the book he seemed to be such an arrogant jerk. His comment on Eddard being his real father made him much more sympathetic to me.

[Bastard of Balmora]

Does anyone know if Theon ever spoke that line about his real father being Ned in any of the books? I remember thinking that to myself, but I can't recall Theon ever saying/thinking those words exactly.

I don't think that he does, but he does have a moment with ultimately the same effect in ADwD, when he's climbing the steps to Winterfell's great hall (I think) and he thinks about how he should have died with Robb.

[Is He Dead Yet?]

Jon and the Wildling storyline is practically non-existant. Bran/Jojen/Meera's storyline is barely there either.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they were the focus of season four. Just saying.

[Southron_Ambitions]

If I remember correctly, in the books Theon recalls how cold and distant Eddard was toward him. Theon did love Robb but I don't think he had any love for Eddard and he certainly didn't think of him as his father. Maybe he secretly wished. Eddard had treated him as a son.

I actually think Theon's feeling that Eddard is his real father is an improvement over the source as well. Much more emotionally impactful knowing what Theon has coming.

[Toxspecific]

Eddard knew Theon was a hostage and that if his father did anything stupid again he might have to behead Theon with Ice. So that's why he never tried to grow too close to Theon.

[Jazzman]

I got really got goosebumps the moment when "Boy" did that satisfied face and said "Put him back where he belongs".

I Really like where the Theon story is going even if it's quite changed!

[Capt. Zemblanity]

I have had a few text and messages in my inbox from 'unsullied' types who want to know what is going on with Theon. They aren't sure if they missed something. I just told them to keep watching because I'm afraid I'll spoil it. It is interesting to see the take on things from those who haven't read the books. I do wonder when they are going to reveal Ramsay, and how far they will go with Theon's torture.

[Stargareyen]

The way the show is shaping up the characters, Ramsay and Joffrey would almost look like partners-in-crime ... Ramsay takes care of the torture in the North, Joffrey in the South :D

Alfie is doing way more justice to Theon's character than I could have imagined... respect!

[Cas Stark]

hey all, I'm new to these forums but love the discussion here. I have a question about the Theon/Ramsay scenes from Episode 2/3. Just a heads up don't worry if you spoil anything for me as I've already read through the entire GoT wiki pages.

I understand from Season 2 Roose Bolton sent Ramsay to Winterfell to re-take the ciry from Theon. Roose mentioned to Robb that his "bastard" son was almost at Winterfell in Season 2. Now I'm assuming the army of North-men who surrounded Theon and eventually burned down Winterfel was lead by Ramsay under Roose's instructions.

Here is where I get confused. Why did Ramsay free Theon from being tortured, save him from being captured again only to lead him to another location to be tortured? He was already being tortured by Ramsay's men wasn't he to begin with? Wasn't he in Winterfell when he was being tortured the first time? I'm really confused about all of this.

Thanks in advance

No, he was being tortured at the Dreadfort, he is back in exactly the same place he was taken from...X marks the spot. Ramsey does it because he likes to play mind games and he wants to break Theon mentally so in future Theon will expect any escape plans are something that Ramsey is behind and will have no hope of success.