Does Tyrion have any bastards around?

[Newstar]

I read somewhere that Tyrion's condition renders him infertile?

Achondroplasia doesn't render one infertile, as far as I know...at least in the real world. Magical Westerosi biology/genetics is a whole other kettle of fish.

Of course, Tyrion could just happen to be infertile regardless, for whatever reason (maybe he picked up an STD that did the trick, as suggested upthread). I agree that it seems odd that he's bedded so many prostitutes but has no known bastards to speak of, unlike Robert, who had tons. I suppose you can fanwank it by saying that the women Tyrion slept with would take measures to prevent conception, whereas they might not be so cautious when it came to other men (especially not a man who was king like Robert Baratheon). However, that rests on the assumption that they understood that Tyrion could father children with his condition, and I don't know that people around that time were aware of the connection between dwarfs fathering other dwarfs.

...Tyrion turning out to be infertile and never to have fathered any children (with Tysha or with anyone else) would not surprise me. It seems like GRRM's male protagonists tend to be childless. Just as well, really, since Tyrion seems to have zero interest in fatherhood.

Tywin and everyone else doesn't seem to question if he'll be able to knock up Sansa afterall.

The interesting thing is that it's sort of brushed aside. Tywin asks Tyrion if he'll be able to impregnate Sansa, Tyrion says that he believes he is but he can't prove it, even though he's "tried" (by bedding a ton of prostitutes), and Tywin sort of moves on to the next subject. It seems rather to support the theory that Tyrion is infertile, since Tyrion has nothing to show for his, uh, efforts.

Besides otherwise, he's most likely passed on his dwarfism to his children.

Going by real world rules, he's got a 50% chance. Not great odds, but not "most likely," in my opinion. And again, given magical Westerosi biology/genetics, it's impossible to say one way or the other. I fully anticipate that if Tyrion turns out to have fathered any children--Lanna, Pod, the usual suspects--or even fathers any children before the end of the series, they will not be dwarfs.

How old is Penny? Maybe she's his bastard ;) (kidding).

I've seen this theory kicked around, actually, that Oppo and Penny were (Lannister) twins, that Penny is much younger than what Tyrion estimates to be her age, etc. etc. The funny thing is that I could almost buy it were Penny's colouring different, but as it is, she has mouse brown hair and matching brown eyes, which makes her unlikely to be the daughter of a white-haired/green-and-black eyed man and a dark-haired/blue-eyed woman.

For what it's worth, Pod is my favourite choice for a secret Tyrion/Tysha child, although Lanna seems more likely for a few reasons.

[MindLikeWarp]

I would think that Tyrion doesn't frequent the same whores often. But I could be wrong about that.

Whoring, incest, cruelty, and unabashed arrogance...no wonder the Lannisters as a Great House are finished.

[Ser Greg of House House]

You know, I just realized how hilarious it would be if Tywin Lannister, who abused Tyrion his whole life on the excuse that he was obsessed with whoring (as his father Tytos had a mistress he adorned in his deceased wife's jewels), and then it turns out that the heir to Casterly Rock is really the daughter of a woman that Tywin marked as a whore.

I have a feeling that this is exactly what's going to happen. Tyrion's son with Tysha will be the last Lannister around. But it would work best if Tywin was alive, so I don't know.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I think Tyrion must have a bastard or 2 out there somewhere. He sleeps around a lot like Robert so I think he had to knock up at least 1 or 2 of the whores he was with. I don't buy that Lanka is his, most likely she's Gerion's. But it would be cool if some Tyrion bastard did show up.

Nope. Tyrion is mostly talk there. As I said above, before Shae he hadn't had any sex for more than a year, no reason to assume that that was terribly out of the ordinary.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Maybe he has a bastard or two. Robert's whore kept the baby, until they were killed by the Golden Cloaks.

But if The Sailor's Wife is Tysha, he can even have a true born daughter, Lanna. As they were married, it makes Lanna legit daughther of Tyrion.

Tyrion bedded to many women. Even Tom o' Seven has bastards and some of them probably with whores. I know they are mostly joking, but it's possible some of Tom's ''sons'' are really his.

So it's not a rule for whores to abort their babies.

[Alhazred]

Tyrion doesn't whore around a lot in the books, that's more of a show thing. Before he buys Shae, he hadn't had sex for at least a year. And he is just twenty-three at that point.

Where does it say he had not had sex for a year? Before Bronn "procured" Shae, it was Jyck's job to procure whores for Tyrion. Jyck is the loyal servant who got killed in the mountains while Tyrion was hiding behind a rock.

And he is just twenty-three at that point.

Closer to 26, I thought.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Where does it say he had not had sex for a year? Before Bronn "procured" Shae, it was Jyck's job to procure whores for Tyrion. Jyck is the loyal servant who got killed in the mountains while Tyrion was hiding behind a rock.

Closer to 26, I thought.

Somewhere in Game, if I remember correctly. Could have gotten you a better source three months ago, when it was first brought up.

Tyrion is 26 during the later books, but 23 in Game. 15 years after Robert's Rebellion, where he was eight.

[Alhazred]

Somewhere in Game, if I remember correctly. Could have gotten you a better source three months ago, when it was first brought up.

I think you are mistaken. All I recall are references to frequent whoring. For instance he tells his sister (in front of Tommen) that if he stopped whoring the whores would lose their livelihood.

Tyrion is 26 during the later books, but 23 in Game. 15 years after Robert's Rebellion, where he was eight.

Tyrion say he was 10 years old (which usually means between his 10th and 11th birthday) at around the time of Rhaegar's death at the Trident, in 283. 15+ years later, when he met Shae in late 298, he would be 25 or 26.

[Woman of War]

Nope. Tyrion is mostly talk there. As I said above, before Shae he hadn't had any sex for more than a year, no reason to assume that that was terribly out of the ordinary.

Where does it say he had not had sex for a year? Before Bronn "procured" Shae, it was Jyck's job to procure whores for Tyrion. Jyck is the loyal servant who got killed in the mountains while Tyrion was hiding behind a rock.

Closer to 26, I thought.

Tyrion himself sais that he had not had sex for a year before Shae in his own POV, honestly. Though I would lose my post if I looked up for the quote while being on my Ipad, but I am absolutely sure since I had looked it up before.

I think Tyrion's sex life is grossly overrated, not only by his co-Westerosi. This is the boasting of a small man, guess why he needs it. And here he is a perfect example of an unreliable narrator since we almost believe his POV, only those small moments prove him wrong. After all as long as he was with Shae he had no one else and having a paramour must have been very common among noblity, married or not. Not exactly promiscuous. And Shae for sure knew how to protect herself from unwanted pregnancy.

And I think the showmakers had the very understandable and actually quite positive wish to give the handicapped dwarf a sex life just like anyone else, not falling for the cheap cliché model handicapped who meekly accepts not to be entitled to it. After all it is a point Martin makes in Tyrion's story that this despised gargoyle is a human being with the same emotional needs like any other human.

Only with introducing Tyrion by Ros and not by library the showmakers have slighty shifted the impression of Tyrion as a character by giving him a happy-go-lucky sexuality instead of making him the miserable little man he is, even more than many Westerosi are.

Tyrion was 23 or 24 at the beginning of AGOT.

Lanna would be too old to be Tyrion's daughter but even if there is some minor inconsistency - do you think Tysha would have called her daughter after Lannisters? And how could a thirteen year old bring a pregnancy to term after that ordeal, infections of the urogenital tract would have killed her and the fetus.

[Alhazred]

Tyrion himself sais that he had not had sex for a year before Shae in his own POV, honestly.

I need to check the text myself. But apparently its from Ch. 62 of GoT, the period is LESS than a year, and it is a period of ENFORCED abstinence, implying it is the circumstances of his travels/imprisonment/etc., not lack of promiscuity, that have caused it.

And Shae for sure knew how to protect herself from unwanted pregnancy.

How exactly? She was virtually his prisoner. It is not impossible she found a way to protect herself, but it is hardly "for sure".

Tyrion is less than 13 years older than Sansa, making him 25 to 26 in ASoS

Where does it say he is less than 13 years older than Sansa?

As already pointed out, he says, in Dance with Dragons, that he was 10 years old at around the time of Rhaegar's death, hence born in 273 or 272. That makes about 27-8 at the time of ASoS; and about 14 years older than Sansa.

[Sansa_Stark]

Doesn't Tyrion claim to have "bedded hundreds of whores?"

Even Jaime claims "My brother has known 100 whores, but I have only known one"

I know since the beginning of Game he hasn't had sex since Shae, but is he just exagerating?

[Woman of War]

Tyrion may have bedded lots of women over the years but I guess his sex life was hardly extraordinary given the habits of young men who could afford it. Gambling and fucking seems to have been a regular weekend fun if the boys weren't on the road.

Tyrion is three years younger than Sandor who is sixteen years older than Sansa. I think that I am right. But, umm, why is the precise age important? Because of Lanna? I mean it would be wonderful for Tyrion to have a daughter. But would Tysha have chosen that name???

Shae was for sure not a prisoner, I guess she was able to organize moontea like any sex worker or informed female citizen in this world. Tyrion was not interested at all to see her get pregnant, he would hardly have stopped her, it was part of a prostitute's job description to be the responsible one to avoid "accidents".

[Woman of War]

Found it:

Tyrion was born in 274, making him indeed around 24 in 298.(Sandor born in 271)

[SeanF]

He's probably got more bastards than King Solomon.

[MotherMerciless]

Doesn't Tyrion claim to have "bedded hundreds of whores?"

Even Jaime claims "My brother has known 100 whores, but I have only known one"

I know since the beginning of Game he hasn't had sex since Shae, but is he just exagerating?

Just a figure of speech I'd say. I suspect whoring is a bit more common for Tyrion as paying for sex is the only way he'd get it.

Of course someone could fall in love with him, but given his history with Tysha, I think he's afraid to get emotionally involved with anyone, hence a prostitute is the best thing for him, plus, he can keep using prostitutes to keep on feeling sorry for himself, much like some addicts use their drugs.

[Rahgh Neqaj]

Maybe more interesting: Did Tywin father any whores? Just before his death he happened to have a naked Shae in his chambers and in this thread http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/98745-was-the-secret-ladder-in-chatayas-brothel-originally-for-twyin/ he was one of the prime suspects for building the tunnel into Chatayas. Any male bastard of Tywin born after Cersei could potentially qualify as valonqar...

[Cubicz]

Maybe more interesting: Did Tywin father any whores? Just before his death he happened to have a naked Shae in his chambers and in this thread http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/98745-was-the-secret-ladder-in-chatayas-brothel-originally-for-twyin/ he was one of the prime suspects for building the tunnel into Chatayas. Any male bastard of Tywin born after Cersei could potentially qualify as valonqar...

Donnel Hill at the Wall is the Valonqar! :D

[Iona]

We have this from Tyrion in ACoK: "I’m free of Tysha now, he thought. She’s haunted me half my life, but I don’t need her anymore, no more than I need Alayaya or Dancy or Marei, or the hundreds like them I’ve bedded with over the years." Seems to me he's done his fair share of whoring, since this is just his thoughts, not him bragging to anyone.

We also have a couple of quite sad whoring incidents by Tyrion post-Shae. Illyrio provided him with a bedwarmer, and then there was that poor freckled girl at a brothel in Selhorys. One would think that after all that has happened to him, he'd steer clear from whores.

I always thought Tyrion and Tysha's marriage was "as if it had never been" because of the lack of witnesses and the septon being shitfaced. This is from aSoS: “The first time I wed, there was us and a drunken septon, and some pigs to bear witness. We ate one of our witnesses at our wedding feast.

[WeddinGuest]

Seems to me there's no conflict between Tyrion not having had sex for a year before Shae and his having bedded "hundreds of whores" in his lifetime, as Tyrion became sexually active when he was only 13, and if he's 23 in GoT, even if we subtract one sexless year, that still gives him 9 years to whore around. Let's say his whoring was interrupted for months at a time earlier in life as well, let's say he's had 5 years of opportunity to whore around then. There are (5 x 365) = 1825 days, or 5 x 52 = 260 weeks. So he could have easily bedded "hundreds of whores" by the time of GOT, even if he was visiting brothels only once a week or so.

Now, it seems (especially in Westeros) that young horny men usually have sex more often then that if they can; we know that both Jon and Robb at age 15-16 were capable of having sex multiple times a day, albeit with only one partner who was quite available (Robb was married and Jon was sorta-married at the time). Jon's actually a very good example because he states during the cave scene that he'd had sex with Ygritte "half a hundred times" by then, so I think I can safely say that by the time he left, he'd had sex "hundreds of times". But then Jon goes right back to being celibate. (I'm also fairly sure Robb was celibate after leaving Jeyne at RR considering he's so fixated on not repeating his father's mistakes, and also actually loving Jeyne, he would not have cheated on her.)

So it's certainly possible for people to have periods of being very sexually active, and also periods of being celibate. I can easily see Tyrion at ages 14-15-16 having sex many times a day and frequenting brothels at the time, becoming a tad less horny as he became older, then he could certainly have long periods of celibacy later on, and still had an impressive partner count to boast of.

As for the question of if he has bastards; the idea that Penny is his daughter by Tysha is intriguing, and there is some support for that, namely Penny remembering her mother singing. I suspect that Lanna is a red herring because she's so obvious, and that she's actually Joy Hill's half-sister (that is, uncle Gerion's bastard -- or perhaps even trueborn -- daughter, if he and the Sailor's Wife actually did have a legal marriage.)

[Bright Blue Eyes]

We have this from Tyrion in ACoK: "I’m free of Tysha now, he thought. She’s haunted me half my life, but I don’t need her anymore, no more than I need Alayaya or Dancy or Marei, or the hundreds like them I’ve bedded with over the years." Seems to me he's done his fair share of whoring, since this is just his thoughts, not him bragging to anyone.

We also have a couple of quite sad whoring incidents by Tyrion post-Shae. Illyrio provided him with a bedwarmer, and then there was that poor freckled girl at a brothel in Selhorys. One would think that after all that has happened to him, he'd steer clear from whores.

I always thought Tyrion and Tysha's marriage was "as if it had never been" because of the lack of witnesses and the septon being shitfaced. This is from aSoS: “The first time I wed, there was us and a drunken septon, and some pigs to bear witness. We ate one of our witnesses at our wedding feast.

He never slept with Alayaya or Dancy or Marei though.