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[Book Spoilers] EP305 Discussion

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I think it's because Loras so readily just jumped into bed with the first squire he looked his way. Book Loras vowed to never love again after Renly died.

Love != Sex

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Hey guys. It's been a while since I posted. But..

Loved the episode. I need to rewatch bc I missed a few things like most of the dialogue between Koran and selmy.

I thought there were a few give aways here though. One being for people who think patchface is a blackfyre. Since they wrote him out I don't think that will be the case.

But the way that thoros resurrected beric seemed like a big deal to mean. I mean we know that they can be resurrected, but didnt know the process or what was needed. Since it happens instantly when the red priest just goes to the body and whispers the prayer... It seemed very possible and even more likely to me that this is what Mel will do with Jon.

I could be wrong, but I think he had to kiss him, and give him the "kiss of life".

ETA: or was that just something hypothetical and figurative?

Edited by Darth Zyroth

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Talisa... It's so talisa... I have to think that bit confirms it.

She's highly suspect, claims to be low born from volantis but says my lord not "milord." She claims she knows nothing of Westerosi custom but knew the wedding words of the seven and what supplies maesters had. Now she is privy to his plans re Lannisport and Frey and Tywin mentions that he's learned just about everything going on in robbs camp.

Im pretty sure it's her.

didnt she claimed to be highborn? like when she is telling that story about when her brother almost drowned and a slave pushed her out of the way to save him and she was like "omg a slave pushed a highborn girl, thats punishable by death" ?

either way her character sucks in the show, it is known

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I've read through the entire thread and didn't see this addressed so ...

Surely I'm not the only one bothered by the reaction of the Hound to being burned during his fight with Beric. I thought the fact that Arya witnessed him "crying like a baby" and pleading for help was a defining moment for Sandor in the book, as it gives the readers a glimpse at what lies beneath the bad-ass butcher of men. It struck me as odd (not to mention wildly out of character) that he was written as having the exact opposite reaction, laughing and cracking a really tasteless joke instead. And that after several reminders from Blackwater on that Sandor is really wigged out by fire. It's like they created the build-up to this moment and then changed their minds and made it appear that he really isn't all that freaked out by fire after all - in fact, he laughs about being burned again.

Aside from Sandor's reaction, which soured the rest of the scene for me, it was a fabulous hour of television. One of the best of the series so far.

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Has anyone heard an explanation as to why Littlefinger has become the dark knight? It really is quite distracting and substantially different from Littlefinger season 1.

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Has anyone heard an explanation as to why Littlefinger has become the dark knight? It really is quite distracting and substantially different from Littlefinger season 1.

If you listen carefully, his accent becomes more and more raspy like as season 1 goes on, until season 2, where he is basically Batman. I don't know what he was thinking really, but if he's going to talk like that, I hope he sticks with it instead of changing again.

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Sandor looked pretty freaked out to me.

I'm on the fence about the slow Bran / Rickon death reveal and the uncertainty Catelyn and Robb are feeling. If Robb and Catelyn had received quick word about the burned corpses, I think it would be easier to understand Catelyn's glum mood this season. But I'm reserving judgement until the storyline plays out.

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I've read through the entire thread and didn't see this addressed so ...

Surely I'm not the only one bothered by the reaction of the Hound to being burned during his fight with Beric. I thought the fact that Arya witnessed him "crying like a baby" and pleading for help was a defining moment for Sandor in the book, as it gives the readers a glimpse at what lies beneath the bad-ass butcher of men. It struck me as odd (not to mention wildly out of character) that he was written as having the exact opposite reaction, laughing and cracking a really tasteless joke instead. And that after several reminders from Blackwater on that Sandor is really wigged out by fire. It's like they created the build-up to this moment and then changed their minds and made it appear that he really isn't all that freaked out by fire after all - in fact, he laughs about being burned again.

Aside from Sandor's reaction, which soured the rest of the scene for me, it was a fabulous hour of television. One of the best of the series so far.

You are not the only one. I agree with you. But I didn't mention it. I kept it to myself because then some people would have probably started calling me "purist" and that I'm claiming is a "character assassination" and to stop watching the show.

But yeah, I totally agree. I would have mention it in the nitpick thread. Btw where is the nitpick thread when you need it?

Has anyone heard an explanation as to why Littlefinger has become the dark knight? It really is quite distracting and substantially different from Littlefinger season 1.

If you listen carefully, his accent becomes more and more raspy like as season 1 goes on, until season 2, where he is basically Batman. I don't know what he was thinking really, but if he's going to talk like that, I hope he sticks with it instead of changing again.

He is convinced that he is going to win an Emmy and a Golden Globe with that voice... or maybe is just like someone said earlier in this thread: at this point he is just tolling us all.

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The incest was a choice. A choice that they continued into their adult lives. You're going to honestly tell me that something that happened due to pure happenstance is equal to two people making a conscience choice, knowing all the while it was wrong?

Jaime and Cersei shouldn't be held accountable for their actions here? Because it seems like that's what you're trying to do. Blame anyone and everyone except for the two responsible.

dude you need to stop applying your personal moral values to the show.

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Has anyone heard an explanation as to why Littlefinger has become the dark knight? It really is quite distracting and substantially different from Littlefinger season 1.

Because there a LOT of characters in the books and they have clearly shown that they are going to discard plot device characters that are only there to serve a relatively small purpose. Littlefinger has become a more central character in the shows than depicted in the books because LF wasn't a POV.

With the books I loved the POV approach to story telling because it enabled a way to have a cloud of uncertainty while reading the books. I don't think this works with TV since we can't get into the heads of the characters. So we are required to expand the story of some non-POV characters and their actions.

What does Dontos really provide to the story? An example of how LF is a pretty bad guy? That shouldn't be hard to do whenever necessary.

Edited by flyerhawk

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If you listen carefully, his accent becomes more and more raspy like as season 1 goes on, until season 2, where he is basically Batman. I don't know what he was thinking really, but if he's going to talk like that, I hope he sticks with it instead of changing again.

Yeah pick one and stick with it. The problem I have is it makes him seem like a more cartoonish villain character. I have a great deal of respect for book Littlefinger and the way he plays the game. On the show, he's sort of transformed into a "smooth satan" with devilish goatee and black/grey slicked hair to match; rasping his lines and grinning at his clever plots.

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Because there a LOT of characters in the books and they have clearly shown that they are going to discard plot device characters that are only there to serve a relatively small purpose. Littlefinger has become a more central character in the shows than depicted in the books because LF wasn't a POV.

With the books I loved the POV approach to story telling because it enabled a way to have a cloud of uncertainty which reading the books. I don't think this works with TV since we can't get into the heads of the characters. So we are required to expand the story of some non-POV characters and their actions.

What does Dontos really provide to the story? An example of how LF is a pretty bad guy? That shouldn't be hard to do whenever necessary.

I think you misunderstood. He's talking about his voice...... and he's not the only one annoyed by it, or the only one who has mentioned it.

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You are not the only one. I agree with you. But I didn't mention it. I kept it to myself because then some people would have probably started calling me "purist" and that I'm claiming is a "character assassination" and to stop watching the show.

But yeah, I totally agree. I would have mention it in the nitpick thread. Btw where is the nitpick thread when you need it?

I don't think your point was nitpicking at all! Its a very important scene to show what lay beneath the Hound's gruff exterior. And also an opportunity to show his fear of fire, to demonstrate his "human-ness". Because we all know that gets important later to understand his transformation. Maybe with the whole Jaime transformation happening at the same time, they didn't want to lose 2 villains the viewers love to hate.

Also, Now that they've established for certain that Ser Barristan was not part of the small council, hence not likely to know about Jorah's betrayal, how do you think they'd handle the Jorah reveal to Dany? Who tells her?

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My list of observations for this week...

1) Jon Snow saying "Seven hells!" really pissed me off for some reason. He follows the old gods!

2) The QoT calling Tyrion a browbeaten bookkeeper was both funny and sad. It shows just how far he has fallen and that he isn't the only one who has noticed.

3) Two great Arya scenes this week that were super sad. Telling Gendry she could be his family, and asking Thoros if he could bring back a man without a head. Oh man they both really got me.

4) Umm, mega ew and creepy on the preserved fetuses. That was seriously disturbing. But I did catch that one was named Edric. (And another Petyr, but I don't think that actually has any implications)

5) Sansa's scene with LF - when he says that "I can't tell you how touched I am" it was so damn obvious and Sansa remained oblivious. She really is quite dense. Yeah I just bet you wanted her to touch you Lord Pedo!

6) Tyrion telling Tywin that forcing Sansa to marry Tyrion was "cruel, even for you." I was kind of worried that Tyrion's stance in the book, knowing that the Lannisters have taken everything from her and then she was forced to marry him, would be somewhat lost on the show. But mentioning this to his father makes me think it will be preserved in some form. Also his comment that she was missing some of Loras's favorite bits was hilarious.

7) So does Shireen singing Patchface's song mean that he isn't making an appearance? Guess that puts to rest all those crackpot theories about how important he is... but I am disappointed just because his relationship with Shireen revealed a lot about her, too. How isolated and lonely she is as a result of her condition and her father.

Overall a pretty solid episode. Nowhere near the greatness of last week but better than most of the season's episodes so far.

ETA: Oh, and re: Cersei marrying Loras. A lot of people have commented on how he has not been made Kingsguard yet. So I wonder if Cersei manages to get him named Kingsguard so that she doesn't have to marry him?

Edited by Ampris

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I think you misunderstood. He's talking about his voice...... and he's not the only one annoyed by it, or the only one who has mentioned it.

Yep. Thanks for the clarification. I guess I didn't clearly state that his voice has slipped into the Christian Bale realm from the dark night. I expect Littlefinger to scream "Swear to me!!" at some point in the show.

Edited by Bearsblood8

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He is convinced that he is going to win an Emmy and a Golden Globe with that voice... or maybe is just like someone said earlier in this thread: at this point he is just tolling us all.

OK, this is just uncool. I'm not a fan of the voice he puts on during the show, but this is just ad-hominem and unnecessary.

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ETA: Oh, and re: Cersei marrying Loras. A lot of people have commented on how he has not been made Kingsguard yet. So I wonder if Cersei manages to get him named Kingsguard so that she doesn't have to marry him?

Some posters have speculated that she is going to persuade Joffrey to order him to join the Kingsguard, thereby proving to her father that she can control him, and showing that she isnt completely out of the game.

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Now you are just going to feed the people that will want to blame Ned, lol.

I can see how some of Robert's actions may have made Cersei want to get back at him by hooking up with Jaime and bearing his kids. But I can't say with confidence that they ever would have stopped, regardless of how good Robert was to her. I am not not completely buying that Cersei gave a good faith effort to Robert or a further argument that if he was only nicer she would have been a loving wife and stopped screwing her brother. I find that flimsy

I know what you mean. I'm a firm believer that everyone is going to continually screw up, it's what you do after the fact that makes you an asshole. Jaime took a vow of celibiey and broke to bang someone elses wife. All of that makes him an asshole. Not the fact she was his sister, not the fact Robert cheated continually on her.

My true complaint about the whole Jaime not defending his actions were, despite Ned thinking whatever he thought, Jaime should have stated, "I had to stop him from using the Wildfire to destory the city." Whether he was believed or not would have been on everyone else, but not defending yourself or even explaining seems the oppisite of prideful, I'm not sure why but to me it does.

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Yeah, but those are blogs, I mean a thread, like this one, which I love, but with Catelyn instead of Sansa.

http://asoiaf.wester...on-in-westeros/

Yeah, I really enjoyed the discusion, and as bad, odd, and unlikely as it sounds, the more I talk about Cersei, the more I like her. I'm starting to understand her.

Also, a thread about who started the war would be very interesting, too.

Same here. I used to hate her, but a friend of mine has explained how he views her. After several discussions we had he had me reconsidering my hatred. Suffice to say, I no longer think of her as a supreme powerhungry bitch. More like a woman desperate for independence and considering power the best means of gaining it.

Edited by Peptalk

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I've read through the entire thread and didn't see this addressed so ...

Surely I'm not the only one bothered by the reaction of the Hound to being burned during his fight with Beric. I thought the fact that Arya witnessed him "crying like a baby" and pleading for help was a defining moment for Sandor in the book, as it gives the readers a glimpse at what lies beneath the bad-ass butcher of men. It struck me as odd (not to mention wildly out of character) that he was written as having the exact opposite reaction, laughing and cracking a really tasteless joke instead. And that after several reminders from Blackwater on that Sandor is really wigged out by fire. It's like they created the build-up to this moment and then changed their minds and made it appear that he really isn't all that freaked out by fire after all - in fact, he laughs about being burned again.

Aside from Sandor's reaction, which soured the rest of the scene for me, it was a fabulous hour of television. One of the best of the series so far.

He did shy away now and then and reacted to it when the sword lit up initially though? I thought his fear for fire came through.

Edited by Peptalk

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