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[Book Spoilers] EP305 Discussion

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Hi guys,

I've been a semi-frequent lurker, but the last two episodes have made me want to share my thoughts.

I'd say that the best parts of this episode (there were many!) were the Robb parts. Loved the Karstark beheading scene -

! Anyone catch that? I thought it was brilliant, and echoed Theon's beheading of Ser Rodrick. Also, seeing Robb actually get to come up with a clever plan at the end was nice. Honestly, it'll help provide a buildup for the climax this season.

One caveat though - was it just me, or did Beric's revival seem sort of unclear in the show? I feel like I missed Thoros giving him Magical CPR. Kinda ruined the scene for me :/

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She said she was from a noble family, and has a last name. She was probably educated on Westoros customs (when she wasn't getting aroused by talking about her dying siblings)

But you forget that Talisa Maegry is an anagram for "a great mislay." I rest my case. :P

But really you think it's someone else?

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Hi guys,

I've been a semi-frequent lurker, but the last two episodes have made me want to share my thoughts.

I'd say that the best parts of this episode (there were many!) were the Robb parts. Loved the Karstark beheading scene -

! Anyone catch that? I thought it was brilliant, and echoed Theon's beheading of Ser Rodrick. Also, seeing Robb actually get to come up with a clever plan at the end was nice. Honestly, it'll help provide a buildup for the climax this season.

One caveat though - was it just me, or did Beric's revival seem sort of unclear in the show? I feel like I missed Thoros giving him Magical CPR. Kinda ruined the scene for me :/

The Robb/Karstark bits were almost verbatim from the books, which was superb. Those were the best sequences to pick to remain perfectly faithful, in my opinion, along with the bath scene.

I guess they wanted to keep the resurrection a bit of a mystery. We see Thoros chant some words and then Beric comes back. I assume they're saving the kiss of life thing for later.

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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Who else teared up when Arya told Gentry that she could be his family?

I did too, loved the way that he replied to her "you would be milady". Maisie was brilliant in this whole episode. Her scene with Beric was touching as well.

Shireen did not look nearly as depressed/sickly as I expected she would. The greyscale looked nasty, but Shireen seemed cheerful. Didn't really pay attention to book Shireen, but I feel so sorry for the TV version. Dragonstone is no place for a child like that...

Loved her show version so far. As for Dragontosne not being a place for her, I have to add that show's Selyse gave me more creeps than the book version, even without the ears and mustache. It really made me sick watching her talking with those baby jars!!

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Hi guys,

I've been a semi-frequent lurker, but the last two episodes have made me want to share my thoughts.

I'd say that the best parts of this episode (there were many!) were the Robb parts. Loved the Karstark beheading scene -

! Anyone catch that? I thought it was brilliant, and echoed Theon's beheading of Ser Rodrick. Also, seeing Robb actually get to come up with a clever plan at the end was nice. Honestly, it'll help provide a buildup for the climax this season.

One caveat though - was it just me, or did Beric's revival seem sort of unclear in the show? I feel like I missed Thoros giving him Magical CPR. Kinda ruined the scene for me :/

Welcome to the forum!

I did not notice theon's theme at all. nice catch!

I share your disapointment with the ressurection ritual, but at least they half-explained it later on the episode. It's worth to note that in the books Arya doesn't see the magical CPR, only Beric walking back from the shadows.

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Seems like a lot of people are misinterpreting Gendry's "You would be my lady" line. He wasn't saying that arya would be his wife - he was saying that if he returned with her to Riverrun, he wouldn't be friends with her anymore because she is high born and he's just a lowly blacksmith who wouldn't be allowed to talk to her.

Loras was in love with Renly and said that he could never love another in the books, here he jumps into bed with random guys he just met.

He never said that in the tv show now did he? There are character changes, get over it.

Loras was an incredibly minor character in the books. At least he's getting a lot of pivotal screen time on the show thanks to his unique position and the need for character truncation.

Edited by Frumpus

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How the Lannisters found out about Karstark: Robb had this huge argument with Talisa about telling the Lannisters about the kids and the punishments. So he told them about that. Likely the Karstarks let it be known or some spies told Tywin the Karstarks had definitely left. Or maybe Tywin asked them to join him and they said No but we are going home.

Plenty great beefcake but if NCW doesnt get a good hair/face washing soon it's going to stay that way. #gross

There was some conjecture about the Lords Kiss and thank goodness it got in sans skeeve.

The real Tywin wouldnt have hollered but Dance sells it. Cersei and Tyrion remain perfect.

I love how one scene will follow the book line by line and the next scene we are completely off the rails! I love Shireen teaching Davos to read. Pretty nice cell for a traitor though. Not real true to the story because Mel in the books knows Davos isnt really a traitor, he just needs to be out of the way for a bit.

Another superfantastically done episode

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I just noticed something also. Pretty soon after Jaime's recount of the conflict of keeping his vow to Aerys, Barristan says a man of honor keeps his vows to a drunk or a lunatic.

I thought that was a nice little job of showing both sides of that conflicting choice since Jaime's honor is a running theme from now on.

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That was a fantastic episode! Loved everything about it. Minor quibbles about Loras jumping into bed with the squire, but willing to overlook. Kinda of glad it was a change from Sansa letting it slip so there's not more Dumb Sansa hate.

Loved the Beric/Sandor scene. Arya was killing me with "I could be your family" and "Can you bring a man back with no head?" The Lannisters at the end... yeah. It is nice to be surprised, I gasped at Loras as the proposed husband. Yep, Loras is going to be joining the KG right quick.

Shireen was perfect. I always thought she was cute in the books, even with hanging around creepy Patchface. It was neat hearing the "I know, oh oh oh" song. I sang it in my head different when reading. Her scene with Davos was adorable. Funny note: I mentioned to my husband that Davos learning to read was one of the cute moments in the books. He says "Let me guess, as soon as he learns to read, he gets his eyes stabbed out by that girl and shoved in his fingerbone bag, because that's what happens in world." Yeah.

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Seems like a lot of people are misinterpreting Gendry's "You would be my lady" line. He wasn't saying that arya would be his wife - he was saying that if he returned with her to Riverrun, he wouldn't be friends with her anymore because she is high born and he's just a lowly blacksmith who wouldn't be allowed to talk to her.

This was my interpretation as well.

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Who else teared up when Arya told Gentry that she could be his family?

Me. :crying:

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I almost forgot about Jaime and Brienne! Gods, so much awesome in one episode! GC and NCW killed it. They were perfect. They are Jaime and Brienne. I need to rewatch that. So many little touches that made it perfect.

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Seems like a lot of people are misinterpreting Gendry's "You would be my lady" line. He wasn't saying that arya would be his wife - he was saying that if he returned with her to Riverrun, he wouldn't be friends with her anymore because she is high born and he's just a lowly blacksmith who wouldn't be allowed to talk to her.

He never said that in the tv show now did he? There are character changes, get over it.

Loras was an incredibly minor character in the books. At least he's getting a lot of pivotal screen time on the show thanks to his unique position and the need for character truncation.

I'm pretty sure that the butcher's boy was low born and that didn't stop Arya from befriending him.

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My one issue. What the heck would be accomplished by marrying cersei to Loras . They are already creating an alliance with highgarden with the royal wedding. Seems like a waste to me.

In the book Tywin cycled through possible choices which included Robert Arryn and Theon Greyjoy. Besides Loras already announced he was joining the Kingsguard and Joffrey accepted.

Edited by drstrangelove

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First time posting here - registered a while ago after finishing all the books shortly after Season 2 ended and I couldn't wait!

Others have already mentioned little details which I very much liked - Theon's theme for the execution and the staging of it reminded me also of Ned's execution of the Night's Watchman in Season 1.

One thing I'm intrigued about is how the Barristan/Jorah relationship will play out, and then into Jorah's dismissal. It also seemed like they had been bonding in the conversation shown about how Jorah became a knight, the subtle nod between the two after Daernarys asks the Unsullied to join her as free men at the end of the last episode and marches from the city. I did like how the conversation showed that Jorah is still "safe" for now with his former betrayal - so I wonder if his dismissal will be done differently? With Barristan bringing up his poor reputation in Westoros and making tough choices (I'm paraphrasing as I can't remember it exactly), I wonder if something may happen for Jorah to voluntarily leave Daernary's service, or is that too much of a leap to make?

I will confess I have a soft spot for Jorah - mainly due to Iain Glen! As a side note I was fortunate enough to see him play Henry V on stage when I was a kid, and credit him with my interest in Shakespeare at a young age.

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My one issue. What the heck would be accomplished by marrying cersei to Loras . They are already creating an alliance with highgarden with the royal wedding. Seems like a waste to me.

Tywin mentions in the books that Cersei is to marry and even suggests a Greyjoy at one point. I'm almost certain this happened when he was going over possible suitors. I think they just changed it to Loras so Cersei can go to Joffery and force him to appoint Loras to the KG.

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I am using this post to go on record with my predictions regarding not how the show will change the books, but rather to note where I think Martin's story is going.

1. Arya and Gendry are going to have a romance if not be a married couple. That dialog between them tonight was absolutely dead on as a foreshawdowing of this. Gendry was asserting his need not only to be free of a master/serf relationship but also his need not to be subservient to Arya. I am not claiming that they have feelings for one another in a romantic way right now, that would be creepy and out of character for both of them, but they will. They are a natural pair. When Gendry learns he is a Baratheon, he is going to change his idea of himself. I don't mean he is going to think like a Lord, quite the opposite. He may even 'accept' what he is but reject the idea of lording it over anyone which totally matches Arya's idea of how she would like to live her life, not as a great lady, but as a woman who makes decisions for herself about how she wants to live. And knowing he is her social equal is going to give him the emotional confidence to both allow himself to feel his attracton to her and maybe even pursue her. He is aware he cannot be her family now, but he will know differently later.

2. Daenerys and Jon are going to be a riveting pair once they finally meet. I don't know if they will be given a happy ending, but they are going to recognize what they are to one another in a big way and it is going to register as a physical and spiritual attraction. They will marry if Martin wants to give anyone a 'happy' ending. But it will be much like Frodo's happy ending, that is they will both be haunted for life because of what they have had to do and had done to them.

3. Sorry to tell those who love Stannis, but he is a creep and is surrounded by creeps. Maybe he isn't entirely responsible for his dark side, but it is there and he will never, ever get to sit on the Iron throne unless it is about to be destroyed. His agony is apparent in this episode; he knows he is not what he should be. Dany's 'dream' of the destroyed throne room suggest to me that she will arrive in King's Landing after it is already destroyed, perhaps after Stannis sits on it and precipitates its destruction.

4. Dany's is in no way the evil queen some on this board suggest. Both the actress and the script are making that crystal clear. She will have more dark crises, and she will make huge mistakes with her dragons, but those mistakes in Essos are part of her training for leadership of the battle to come in Westeros against the Others. She is going to have to learn how to control her dragons and how not to make serious leadership mistakes. This is the reason DWD ends with her standing next to Drogon about to be confronted and/or supported by Dothraki. The battle against the others will involve an alliance between former antagonists. I don't see many Dothraki crossing over into Westeros, but perhaps they will be her reserve force or a key number of them will cross the narrow sea with her. Ultimately, she may 'reform' their culture from its mysognism, but it won't be a genuine reform.

5. Two strains of magic will be revealed clearly by the end of the series. Tolkein's universe is being repeated in this sense. The Red God or some of his minions.will turn out to be evil. In other words, the god may have been misinterpreted by his followers. I cannot see Beric as evil, but he is compromised in some way and this episode made that clear.

Flame away: this is here as a record which I am bookmarking. I am not so nice as not to say: I told you so.

:smoking:

:fencing: :smug:

Edited by BlueDragon

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I'm pretty sure that the butcher's boy was low born and that didn't stop Arya from befriending him.

pretty sure mycah also never had a shot at marrying Arya

My one issue. What the heck would be accomplished by marrying cersei to Loras . They are already creating an alliance with highgarden with the royal wedding. Seems like a waste to me.

they are just following the books... somewhat. in the books Tywin wanted her to marry willas but willas is cut so Loras takes his place.

you're right it doesn't make sense but hey, you can't blame them for following the books!

Edited by Frumpus

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