[Book Spoilers] Loras and Alleged Character Assassination

[Mulled Wino]

I edited my post to better address that :) I wasn't saying he should go bang other dudes willy nilly because he's impulsive, I meant he's still mostly the same character so all this hyperbole about how he's totally ruined and they should change his character name is preposterous. His dedication to Renly was a big thing, but that's the only thing that's really a stretch from book to show.

Not a character assassination imo. There's only one character assassination going down IMO (arguably 2), and it aint Loras.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Yeah, Cat is a big one. All the Unsullied seem to think she actually is the person to blame for almost everything. I'm not a Cat apologist but they never could have her come across as intelligent and political savvy for some reason.

[Mulled Wino]

Yeah, Cat is a big one. All the Unsullied seem to think she actually is the person to blame for almost everything. I'm not a Cat apologist but they never could have her come across as intelligent and political savvy for some reason.

I score character assassinations like this.

Robb - 1

Cat - .5

I wont argue either way if people want to say Cat's is worse.

[Relic]

Well, they made Loras the heir to Highgarden instead of the third son, effectively stripping him of ever donning a white cloak. While not an assassination, it's a drastic change form the Loras in the books. Hard to argue otherwise.

[Lord Godric]

Well, they made Loras the heir to Highgarden instead of the third son, effectively stripping him of ever donning a white cloak. While not an assassination, it's a drastic change form the Loras in the books. Hard to argue otherwise.

Except he already was a member of a Kingsguard, Renly's. Unless the rules are different for Renly's Kingsguard, he already gave up his rights to Highgarden once.

[Zar Lannister]

Well, they made Loras the heir to Highgarden instead of the third son, effectively stripping him of ever donning a white cloak. While not an assassination, it's a drastic change form the Loras in the books. Hard to argue otherwise.

I'm not particularly bothered by the sacrifice of Willas by the show (is not like he's ever seen anyway). Or of Garlan, for that matter. Well, they could've kept Willas (it's not like they needed to hire a new actor for him anyway, but I guess it does bring the unwanted feedback from watchers knowing of a character never shown :dunno:). After all, it's not like there's much difference in the path Loras is to take from here in terms of what is going to happen to him situationally (for that matter, he could very likely refuse Cersei just as the Tyrells refused marrying her to Willas).

HOWEVER,

I don't think those of us who are upset about the change are upset because he's not shown caring about the death of his *gay* lover, but because he's not shown caring about his lover, period. And that sense of deep care was a large part of his character in the later books.

^This. Mostly. QFT.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Well, they made Loras the heir to Highgarden instead of the third son, effectively stripping him of ever donning a white cloak. While not an assassination, it's a drastic change form the Loras in the books. Hard to argue otherwise.

Doesn't Renly's Kingsguard have the same effect?

[Zar Lannister]

Except he already was a member of a Kingsguard, Renly's. Unless the rules are different for Renly's Kingsguard, he already gave up his rights to Highgarden once.

I don't remember there being a mention of the rules for the Rainbow Guard; with Renly's court being such a party, he could have changed some of those rules anyway :dunno:.

[Relic]

Doesn't Renly's Kingsguard have the same effect?

Tywin states plainly near the end of Kissed by Fire: "He's the heir to Highgarden".

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Tywin states plainly near the end: "He's the heir to Highgarden".

You missed the point. They've already had him on a Kingsguard as the heir to Highgarden once. Unless the Rainbow guard lives by a totally different set of rules which we don't even know. Obviously once Renly was killed he's no longer part of an imaginary Kingsguard and becomes heir again. So to say he can't be a KG is ignoring that in the show he already was one.

[Mark Antony]

Loras might join The Kingsguard in the show to get out of the Cersei marriage

[Relic]

You missed the point. They've already had him on a Kingsguard as the heir to Highgarden once. Unless the Rainbow guard lives by a totally different set of rules which we don't even know. Obviously once Renly was killed he's no longer part of an imaginary Kingsguard and becomes heir again. So to say he can't be a KG is ignoring that in the show he already was one.

Gotcha.

In the books he joined the KG out of grief for Renly, and seemed content with the vow of celibacy. So, its a change from the books, but i guess we'll see if its a full scale character assassination.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Gotcha.

In the books he joined the KG out of grief for Renly, and seemed content with the vow of celibacy. So, its a change from the books, but i guess we'll see if its a full scale character assassination.

Well in the books he's not even the heir lol so Mace wouldn't freak out if he joined. But they could always spit out a young Willas later who will likely never be seen but be introduced via dialogue quickly so as to make sense.

[Zar Lannister]

Loras might join The Kingsguard in the show to get out of the Cersei marriage

Or Joffrey could pull an Aerys and name him Kingsguard to get his Mother out of the arrangement, cementing the Tyrells decision to have him removed. I don't think Joffrey would entertain the idea of a half-sibling, given his bastard elimination tactics in the series.

[Mark Antony]

Or Joffrey could pull an Aerys and name him Kingsguard to get his Mother out of the arrangement, cementing the Tyrells decision to have him removed. I don't think Joffrey would entertain the idea of a half-sibling, given his bastard elimination tactics in the series.

That works

[juanml82]

Or they might disregard the kings guard completely and have Cersei postpone the wedding until he's injured at Dragonstone. Or something else entirely. And, therefore, intrigue us book readers with a plot we don't have spoiled

[Zar Lannister]

Or they might disregard the kings guard completely and have Cersei postpone the wedding until he's injured at Dragonstone. Or something else entirely. And, therefore, intrigue us book readers with a plot we don't have spoiled

It's still fun to speculate. It's also fun to argue reasoning in favor or against a change.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

My problem with Joff instigating it is that he tells Cersei intelligent women do what they're told. Although the idea of someone getting his mom pregnant would probably enrage him so it could happen, and it would show Cersei finally being able to get him to do what she wants.

Although my favorite scenario in all this would be Olenna telling Tywin, ew no way she's way too used up prompting Tywin to suggest Balon Greyjoy instead :P But then we would have no Loras KG :(

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Renly is dead, Loras is having sex with a squire.

I don't see how Loras having sex with a living man makes him not still be in love with Renly?

and him being an emotional wreck would explain why he isn't tight lipped about his secret betrothal to his "new friend"

[siberia82]

Oops, double post.