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teemo

[BOOK SPOILERS] The Wall Climb Opinions and Tormund

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the climbing of the wall was excellent! it was a little funny that they showed only 4 wildling atop of the wall, but i am sure the others were still climbing. i only wish Tormund had more lines . Har!

The climb was badass. As was the view from the top. And yes we need to hear about Tormund's member. That is his favorite thing to talk about after all.

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I was a little bit WTF at Ygritte's comments about him betraying her before the climb. Liked that a bit of Tormund's humour was FINALLY starting to show.

Climb itself I really liked. It really felt as if they were making an exceptional effort to do the scene justice, apart from the 'Grab my hand' line I liked it.

At the top - I can't see why anyone is complaining about the kiss. It fit. It was perfectly justified. And it was a beautiful scene.

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Unfortunately, Facebook is being overwhelmed with comments such as: "What? Is climbing some dumb rock more important than the Caleesy now?"

And there is the problem. Dropping the ball on Jon's story for the best part of 10 episodes has caused an all too vociferous minority of viewers to disengage from any story that is about the Wall.

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I dont get why people have issues with some romantic shots. In contrast to my general opinion on lovestorys y+j in the books totally touched me!

I think with the "ygritte knows what you are doing jon snow" change it should be even harder for jon to betray her....

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Unfortunately, Facebook is being overwhelmed with comments such as: "What? Is climbing some dumb rock more important than the Caleesy now?"

And there is the problem. Dropping the ball on Jon's story for the best part of 10 episodes has caused an all too vociferous minority of viewers to disengage from any story that is about the Wall.

More like, I don't think anyone has been conveyed about the importance of Jon. A lot of people raged at Eddard's death back in S1 because they thought "OMG THEY KILLED THE PROTAGONIST" and Having read the books, I was stared at as hoping to shed light, despite telling them Eddard was not "the"' protagonist.

I'm concerned about how Daenerys will be handled later on, she has no participation in AFfC and she's already made it to Yunkai.

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The way the Jon & Ygritte stuff played out this ep. made me realize that, for the show, the cave scene should have come AFTER this!! Jon holding on for her during the climb, them looking out over the Wall together, then the kiss. It just seemed SO MUCH MORE NATURAL AND COMPELLING for their romance to have started like this rather than just forcing in the cave scene last ep (given that they had already postponed it from how it was in the book). It seemed so perfectly backwards i'm tempted to think they actually swapped the order in post production... no seriously, watch the ending scene again but pretend that's the first time they kiss/have a romantic connection and you'll see what I mean

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I am just going to echo everyone else when I say that Jon finally got some much needed character development in this episode. I was actually willing the action to jump back to his storyline - maybe for the first time since Season One.

I also really liked the ending. It was nice to have an episode ending on a high - when so many of the episodes from here out are likely to end on lows.

Grandpa House, I think you are totally right regarding the Cave scene.

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The way the Jon & Ygritte stuff played out this ep. made me realize that, for the show, the cave scene should have come AFTER this!! Jon holding on for her during the climb, them looking out over the Wall together, then the kiss. It just seemed SO MUCH MORE NATURAL AND COMPELLING for their romance to have started like this rather than just forcing in the cave scene last ep (given that they had already postponed it from how it was in the book). It seemed so perfectly backwards i'm tempted to think they actually swapped the order in post production... no seriously, watch the ending scene again but pretend that's the first time they kiss/have a romantic connection and you'll see what I mean

I think it's better this way, because the sex wasn't about love. It was just something the free folk do without much reservation. The kiss, however, was more of a "falling for one another" type moment. Which is great, because it builds up some history for the two characters that will pull on the viewers later when Jon has to leave her and eventually finds her dead after the battle. I thought the whole scene was great and just like in the books, Jon's story, for me, is the most fun to watch.

Also, as far as Ygritte knowing that Jon hadn't turned his cloak yet, it also plays very well into their relationship and the fact that she's falling in love with him. She wants to believe that he's hers and that he will be loyal to her before all others.

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I loved it. I thought it looked beautiful and I love the development of Jon & Ygritte's story. As we know, this series is low on happy love stories and Jon & Ygritte is one of those rare (though short-lived) moments where a favorite character gets a bit of happiness. I loved the ending with the beautiful views and the kiss between the two of them. It's nice to have that moment, especially knowing what is to come.

And finally, finally, finally we got a small glimpse of the real Tormund. Please let there be more of that to come.

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I loved the climb, I just wish they showed better how many wildlings were involved with Tormod's scouting group. 20 or 4?

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I tought it looked great. I could have done without the clichés, but it worked.

Maybe its a little bit nitpicking, but anyone else think that the wall looked a bit thin at the top, they took like 4 steps and they were on the other side of the ledge.

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From the moment she was no longer his prisoner up to now, she protected him and she was the one driving the course of events. But now they are in "his territory" and it shows when he kisses her (instead of her kissing him in the cave) and puts his arm around her. Like "this is my world down there, and I'll be the protector now."

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I tought it looked great. I could have done without the clichés, but it worked.

Maybe its a little bit nitpicking, but anyone else think that the wall looked a bit thin at the top, they took like 4 steps and they were on the other side of the ledge.

Definitely too thin. Definitely nitpicking.

Also more tormund. I need to hear about his insane escapades with bears and all about his legendary member.

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I didn't like the part with Orell cutting Jon loose. It was just too Indiana Jonesish to me.

That flourish was an action movie cliche. D&D should have cut it out of the script.

I was confused because I thought they were climbing in pairs , Tormund and Orell, Jon and Ygritte , not in fours.

Odd thing from season previews there is a scene, scenes?, of what is a party of more than four Wilding on the south side of the wall.

Tormund plants a rope and has some who are waiting come up?

Or were there parties, off in the distance we did not see?

All for the time they have in one episode pretty much duplicates what George had in the book.

Crampons and bolt anchors... interesting gear for a low technology world, but it's an alternate universe so why not!

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I am just going to echo everyone else when I say that Jon finally got some much needed character development in this episode. I was actually willing the action to jump back to his storyline - maybe for the first time since Season One.

Agreed, this episode was nice after what felt like a season of Jon taking a total backseat.

In addition to Jon and Ygritte, we got Tormund smiling and being a cool dude! Orell being an interesting antagonist! Thought it was a good episode for the wildlings storyline.

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Love, love, love anything to do with the Wall, wish we got more scenes or longer scenes. The ending had kind of a Disney feel to it (and they lived happily ever after) but it was a nice change from what we usually get at the end of episodes.

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That flourish was an action movie cliche. D&D should have cut it out of the script.

I was confused because I thought they were climbing in pairs , Tormund and Orell, Jon and Ygritte , not in fours.

Odd thing from season previews there is a scene, scenes?, of what is a party of more than four Wilding on the south side of the wall.

Tormund plants a rope and has some who are waiting come up?

Or were there parties, off in the distance we did not see?

All for the time they have in one episode pretty much duplicates what George had in the book.

Crampons and bolt anchors... interesting gear for a low technology world, but it's an alternate universe so why not!

In the book, most of the Magnar's party came up via a ladder after the scaling party was at the top.

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I really thought this was the scene where they were going to cut Ygritte instead of how she went in the books. I have no idea why but I felt like they were trying to rush her out so Jon could stop feeling so guilty about breaking his vows or something.

At any rate, I'm looking forward to how Jon's going to pay back Orell because the murderous look he gave him for cutting them loose was great and we know Orell doesn't last anyways.

I thought that too, I figured since there were like 4 people, they weren't going to do the whole queenscrown scene with the old man, and maybe she would just die right then and simplify things.

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I thought the scene was very good. I liked that Jon is showing some balls finally. He was scared like a baby before the climb, but when the shit hit the fan with the wall collapse bit, he manned up and did it.

But, what does everyone think of the change in Ygritte's storyline - she tells Jon how she knows he's "still a crow" and that her secret will die with her, basically. Interesting telegraph of her demise for show-only viewers.

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I think I heard some variation of a "HAR" from Tormund!

It was more of a "heh".

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