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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP307 Discussion

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Yes, although I think that came even earlier. You wrote in another post that you thought Joffrey looked smug on the throne but I think he looked nervous the moment Tywin enters the throne room and you also hear insecurity in his voice, although he's trying to keep appearances up. Perhaps the difference in our perceptions there is the reason we saw the scene a bit differently overall?

That could be it, and I'm sure I will re watch the episode or that scene at least. Last night I remember thinking that Joff is trying to be his typical self at first, but is quickly shut down as Tywin is so fast to respond to Joff's comments. I can certainly see your side of it as well. I think it may just come down to our expectations of how the conversation would go being different.

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That could be it, and I'm sure I will re watch the episode or that scene at least. Last night I remember thinking that Joff is trying to be his typical self at first, but is quickly shut down as Tywin is so fast to respond to Joff's comments. I can certainly see your side of it as well. I think it may just come down to our expectations of how the conversation would go being different.

I wonder whose been telling him about what's happening across the narrow sea, varys or LF secret chats with the it king?

I haven't see any of this "bending over backwards". The general consensus is that the episode was mostly uneventful, which is not because of GRRM; all he does is write what they give him.

That seems a waste of his talents.

Edited by Rhaegarsjoy

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And if you read Ran's episode review he excuses GRRM by saying that he wasnt given much to work with, and then piles on the criticism of the one scene that is confirmed as not being written by GRRM, the bear scene in order to make GRRM look better.

And if you etc. etc. Ran just calls the bear pit sequence the most disappointing, excuses it by the fact it's a trained bear and says it's no-one's fault. Not exactly piling on the criticism.

The review takes more of an issue with Cat, Robb & Talisa, the Theon scene 'inane dialog' which were all written by GRRM. There are also comments on how it's not Martin's best. Stop seeing anti-showrunner messages where there aren't any.

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Re: Bran's story, you know one thing I miss? I miss the Liddle. It would have been a nice, vaguely mysterious scene to drop into the show, to show that there are northmen who are loyal, who tell them a bit of what's going on further south... and then we can get Jojen's line, "The wolves will come again."

Maybe they can work it into one of the final episodes.

I agree with this.And perhaps he could be used to tell Bran that Ramsay is inquiring about him.

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The things I bolded really had nothing to do with plot. I didn't have a problem with Theon scenes before tonight. Now I feel like we've seen too many. He doesn't need to be there every week. The Joffrey and Tywin scene showed their dynamic but was a let down and didn't advance plot it was all characterization. Same goes for Sansa/Marg scene.

I guess its all based on opinion. I love the Theon/Ramsay story. I could watch their scenes every week. It was one of my favorite plots to follow in the books, I could hardly wait for Theon's next chapter as I was reading. Also, I think that all of these bolded items are small importances to the plots of each character. Just sayin'

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I wonder whose been telling him about what's happening across the narrow sea, varys or LF secret chats with the it king?

That's true. I mean, they talked about this on the small council in season 1 right? Robert is dead, Renly is dead, LF is gone, Varys is around but doesn't seem likely he would tell Joff anything unless directly asked. It seems like Joff just heard of this news last episode as he summoned Tywin to the throne room to ask him about it. Who would have told Joff about the dragons this recently? My best guess is Littlefinger right before he left as it seems the two have formed a sort of 'friendship.'

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Rhaegarsjoy,

I do admit it's a bit surprising to think about the fact that if it weren't for their late reshuffling of the bear pit scene into this episode, that there would be no strong act-break type material in this episode. Arya is too quick and sudden, more of a cliffhanger. Jaime is really the only person confronted with a choice this episode which he cannot revoke after he makes it.

I wonder why this particular episode seemed like the right one to give to George, as opposed to, say, 3, 4, 6, or 8. You figure, you've got him for one episode a season, you'd surely want to give him something special in some way.

Edited by Ran

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Oh and why have they barely (at all?) shown the direwolves? They are such a MAJOR part of the book. That's probably my biggest letdown from the show.

THIS. Biggest gripe with the show!

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That's true. I mean, they talked about this on the small council in season 1 right? Robert is dead, Renly is dead, LF is gone, Varys is around but doesn't seem likely he would tell Joff anything unless directly asked. It seems like Joff just heard of this news last episode as he summoned Tywin to the throne room to ask him about it. Who would have told Joff about the dragons this recently? My best guess is Littlefinger right before he left as it seems the two have formed a sort of 'friendship.'

Does LF have the oversea spy network that Varys does though? I know in the books LF doesnt have spies at all, and in the show they seem to be around Westeros.

It could always been rumours brought back from sailors near Slavers Bay, theoretically.

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Littlefinger has word from the Free Cities by way of the Merling King, and he seems to be fully aware of the truth of Daenerys's existence and that of her dragons when he refers to the three queens.

Edited by Ran

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Honestly, I was hoping for much more from GRRM's writing. It was just plain disappointment for me. A little too much sex jokes, a little too much nothingness. The weakest episode of the season until now, written by GRRM who the fuck would've thought it possible.

Edited by WhiteGuts

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And if you etc. etc. Ran just calls the bear pit sequence the most disappointing, excuses it by the fact it's a trained bear and says it's no-one's fault. Not exactly piling on the criticism.

Yes, although if the scene did what it realistically could and I as a viewer am disappointed with it then it can be seen as my own fault for having unrealistic expectations. This is just a general observation and not an attack on Ran's opinions.

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I wonder why this particular episode seemed like the right one to give to George, as opposed to, say, 3, 4, 6, or 8. You figure, you've got him for one episode a season, you'd surely want to give him something special in some way.

They probably hoped that if they give him an uneventful episode, he - as the author of the books - will work his magic on it and it will come out better.

Edited by lojzelote

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I don't see what was the big problem with the bear pit scene except that it was different from the books, but then I didn't like it in the books, so I am probably not a good judge.

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Yes. I mean, you obviously hope it'll look really visceral and awesome, just as you imagined it, but reality brings one up cold. The only thing that might have improved it is if it had been shot and edited differently, but OTOH I see Alan Sepinwall and others utterly raving about MacLaren's direction of the scene, and I don't get that.. but hey, mileage varies.

Cas,

Huh. Well, on the show it was all very stagey and choreographed. It never felt like there was a real danger, at least for me.

Edited by Ran

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Re: Bran's story, you know one thing I miss? I miss the Liddle.

This. Need more mountain clans.

re the Balerion date, isn't it just another case of rounding up for convenience, like Tywin again saying how Robb had lost half his men.

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Robb also says he's lost half his men. This is the show's take on things. They simplify stuff a lot.

If the date is nearer to 200 than 300, it seems to me you'd round down to 200 than round it up to 300, but who knows... But then there's the heads-the-size-of-apples thing, which doesn't fit either. Like I said, could just genuinely be mistakes on GRRM's part, it's just two of these things right after the other made me wonder.

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I wonder why this particular episode seemed like the right one to give to George, as opposed to, say, 3, 4, 6, or 8. You figure, you've got him for one episode a season, you'd surely want to give him something special in some way.

Completely agree. Or, you know, maybe the Red Wedding. Pretty big disappointment, but I'm sure GRRM wouldn't even want to revisit that scene and write it AGAIN after how hard it was for him the first time.

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That's true. I mean, they talked about this on the small council in season 1 right? Robert is dead, Renly is dead, LF is gone, Varys is around but doesn't seem likely he would tell Joff anything unless directly asked. It seems like Joff just heard of this news last episode as he summoned Tywin to the throne room to ask him about it. Who would have told Joff about the dragons this recently? My best guess is Littlefinger right before he left as it seems the two have formed a sort of 'friendship.'

LF gave him the idea of the jousting dwarfs right so they wont show that, maybe LF telling him about Dany instead of varys who has spies across the sea is his way of getting Joffrey to trust him, give him a girl to kill, lil info no one else has told him, discord between king n his small council. A Lil chaos for LF for the road.

Rhaegarsjoy,

I do admit it's a bit surprising to think about the fact that if it weren't for their late reshuffling of the bear pit scene into this episode, that there would be no strong act-break type material in this episode. Arya is too quick and sudden, more of a cliffhanger. Jaime is really the only person confronted with a choice this episode which he cannot revoke after he makes it.

I wonder why this particular episode seemed like the right one to give to George, as opposed to, say, 3, 4, 6, or 8. You figure, you've got him for one episode a season, you'd surely want to give him something special in some way.

I thought George would write ep9, tell him where you're going with the story and give him a bit free rain, maybe He would have included Lil things he wishes he's put into the books. Wishful thinking

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